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lorider 06-24-2019 04:01 AM

my ongoing saga of achieving a decent 9 ball break
 
I have lamented several times on here about my lousy 9 ball break. I have always hated 9 ball and sometimes still do but I have gotten a little more serious about the game since it is a requirement in apa double jeapordy .

I have practiced on nothing but the break many times. Experimented with different locations and different speeds . I have even went through several break cues looking for the magic wand. I have even blamed the disability in my shooting hand on occasion but at other times refuse to accept that as an excuse.

Sometimes it seemed like I had it figured out because I broke good one night but then the next time I broke exactly the same way and had lousy results. This has happened way too many times. I have even asked for pointers from better players with mixed results.

Its an oxymoron being the best 9 ball player on my team and having the worst break of any of my team mates. I aint kidding when I say a girl who is a 3 has a better break than I do.

Like I said....i have went through a few break cues and sometimes even borrowed my opponents breaker during our matches looking for that magic breaker.

I faced a 7 Friday night who I am very friendly with . I used his breaker a few times with decent results and he used mine once and said he did not like it ...actually he said it was no good...i replied I thought it was just me lol.

He has a poison and its light as a feather. So i thought about ordering me one. Then it dawned on me. I have a cue sitting in the closet that is real light with and has a break tip on it. I don't know what the tip is called....its actually a one piece tip/ ferrule combo. Its transparent. I have never seen another one like it. I bought this cue 10 years ago for 20.00 at a pawn shop. It came with 2 shafts . The other shaft has a regular leather tip on it.

So I dug it out of the closet and took it to league last night. I did ok breaking 8 ball with it. Well they dumped a 3 on me in 9 ball and I thought aww crap. So I decided I better check every rack before I broke . To my surprise she gave me a good rack every time and I never had to ask for a rerack.

I broke 5 times ..never scratched. Made a ball 4 times and she was hooked on my one dry break. Had a look at the next ball in the other 4 racks and easy shots in 3 of them.
Held the cue ball in the middle of the table every time and nothing knocked the cue ball in which I have had happen way many times.

One night is too early to tell if I found my magic breaker but I am happy with last nights results.

JazzyJeff87 06-24-2019 05:45 AM

9 ball can be a really fun game on a 7’ table. But not if you’re breaking dry I suppose lol.

I love template racks but unfortunately we can’t always use the things. When I’m having trouble making the wing ball even with tight racks, I’ll go to a slight cut break. Usually from 1 diamond in and I’ll hit just slightly low on the cue ball. That normally makes the 1 in the side and you just have to be conscious of where the 2 is in the rack. Or you can go with the full cut break, hit the 1 about 3/4 full with low outside. With that though I usually get the wing ball and bring 1 and CB up top.

I don’t know if there is a magic cue for breaking. I’ve got a bk3, light with phenolic tip that works really well...but sometimes I go with my cheap 21oz action break/jump when I feel like a heavy hitting slower break. My playing cue has a 314 with a water buffalo tip and especially with 9 ball on small tables I use it to break as well and it’s freakin sweet. Just some thoughts

Maniac 06-24-2019 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 (Post 6424504)

I donít know if there is a magic cue for breaking. Iíve got a bk3, light with phenolic tip that works really well...but sometimes I go with my cheap 21oz action break/jump when I feel like a heavy hitting slower break. My playing cue has a 314 with a water buffalo tip and especially with 9 ball on small tables I use it to break as well and itís freakin sweet. Just some thoughts

IMHO there is no magical break cue, I often see that many pros don't always stick with the same break cue whether they are sponsored or not.

FTR, I also have a cheap Action J/B cue (@19oz.) that I use at home and yet another in my case that I take to "dive" bars when I'm going alone. Those cues break a rack of 8 and 9-ball as good as any cue I've ever broke with.

So there you have it. Is a successful 9-ball break about the cue...or technique...or strength? I don't know, but my feeling is that it is a combination of the three and not just on the cue itself. I believe the cue may be the lesser component of a good break.

I'm not a very good shooter/player but I have a high percentage of balls made on my breaks coupled with acceptable cue ball control, so I feel like my response on this thread is somewhat valid.

Lorider...I don't know what to tell you, but I admire your willingness to work at what you love. Keep experimenting. Someday, hopefully, something will click and it will just all fall into place.

Maniac

logical 06-24-2019 07:01 AM

My break cue is a 19ish oz Joss Thor Hammer, a fairly highly rated, well-reviewed break cue. It feels good but I was never really convinced any cue is particularly better than another for breaking. I really consider the only reason to carry a break cue is to avoid wear and tear on your playing cue. The primary thing people look for in a break cue is the ability to hit the cue hard so the other night I tried 5 different cues. I hit each as hard as practical against the foot rail from about 6 inches off the head rail on a 9 ft Gold Crown. I used my Joss Thor Hammer, a 25 oz generic sneaky pete break cue, my crappiest feeling novelty cue (a Winston Tobacco promo cue with a painted shaft), a player with a 12.75mm Jacoby Edge Hybrid w/med Kamui tip, and a Viking Crush Shaft (Vikings basic break cue, phenolic tip).

Purely judging how many times the cue went up and down the table when hit card center ball....there wasn't 5% difference between them.

I think a good 9 ball break is all about technique, there are dozens of theories about the best approach. But as far as cue, I think it makes little difference. Unless you are breaking in a way that relies on a significant amount of English/control any cue will hit a ball hard. If you just want to hit it hard, the only real advantage of a break cue is maybe the fact that you'll be less likely to hold back subconsciously like you might on an expensive player.

vinay 06-24-2019 07:44 AM

To break well in 9-ball you need (1) a tight rack (2) an accurate hit. A lot of people try to crush rack and end up hitting the 1-ball off-center so the cue ball retains most of its speed and goes flying around the table while the ball pack remains clustered up.

My advice is not to worry about the cue you're using to break and focus more on ensuring that there are no gaps in the rack (this can be difficult on worn cloth with cheap plastic racks), and that you're hitting the 1-ball right perfectly square. Ideally, the cue ball should stop dead when it hits the 1 unless it gets kissed by another ball.

You need to aim your break shot as carefully as you would aim any other shot.

lakeman77 06-24-2019 08:34 AM

I have the Predator break speed app on my phone. All my cues generate about the same cue ball speed, break cues or playing cues. Maybe 5% difference. Seems to me it's all about accuracy and technique.
Get the app and give different cues a try. Good luck.

DecentShot 06-24-2019 09:39 AM

I have a BK3. My Predator app says I max out around 24-25mph, I do what Siegal told me, hit em as hard as you can and hope for the best.

misterpoole 06-24-2019 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinay (Post 6424618)

You need to aim your break shot as carefully as you would aim any other shot.

I have had my own struggles with the break and still do, but i think the 'aim' may be different with the break. Try set your aim and then make sure you are looking at the cue ball
and not the 1, when you strike. You want to hit the cueball dead centre. Have a relaxed grip like you would with any other shot. Practice practice practice.

ChrisinNC 06-24-2019 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6424430)
I have lamented several times on here about my lousy 9 ball break. I have always hated 9 ball and sometimes still do but I have gotten a little more serious about the game since it is a requirement in apa double jeapordy .

I have practiced on nothing but the break many times. Experimented with different locations and different speeds . I have even went through several break cues looking for the magic wand. I have even blamed the disability in my shooting hand on occasion but at other times refuse to accept that as an excuse.

Sometimes it seemed like I had it figured out because I broke good one night but then the next time I broke exactly the same way and had lousy results. This has happened way too many times. I have even asked for pointers from better players with mixed results.

Its an oxymoron being the best 9 ball player on my team and having the worst break of any of my team mates. I aint kidding when I say a girl who is a 3 has a better break than I do.

Like I said....i have went through a few break cues and sometimes even borrowed my opponents breaker during our matches looking for that magic breaker.

I faced a 7 Friday night who I am very friendly with . I used his breaker a few times with decent results and he used mine once and said he did not like it ...actually he said it was no good...i replied I thought it was just me lol.

He has a poison and its light as a feather. So i thought about ordering me one. Then it dawned on me. I have a cue sitting in the closet that is real light with and has a break tip on it. I don't know what the tip is called....its actually a one piece tip/ ferrule combo. Its transparent. I have never seen another one like it. I bought this cue 10 years ago for 20.00 at a pawn shop. It came with 2 shafts . The other shaft has a regular leather tip on it.

So I dug it out of the closet and took it to league last night. I did ok breaking 8 ball with it. Well they dumped a 3 on me in 9 ball and I thought aww crap. So I decided I better check every rack before I broke . To my surprise she gave me a good rack every time and I never had to ask for a rerack.

I broke 5 times ..never scratched. Made a ball 4 times and she was hooked on my one dry break. Had a look at the next ball in the other 4 racks and easy shots in 3 of them.
Held the cue ball in the middle of the table every time and nothing knocked the cue ball in which I have had happen way many times.

One night is too early to tell if I found my magic breaker but I am happy with last nights results.

Breaking is certainly not a strong part of my game either, but I can tell you that there are a number of variables that affect how you should go about breaking a 9-ball rack - particularly whether you are using a template rack or a standard rack, whether the 9-ball is being racked on the spot or the 1-ball on the spot, who is racking the balls and if they are getting them tight, which when using a standard rack can be virtually impossible when using an older set of balls.

vginaman 06-24-2019 01:04 PM

Over exaggerate the follow through. The technique that clicked with me is to make sure your bridge hand ends up past the end of the shaft. For me, that makes the cue ball spin and sit no matter how hard i hit it.

cubswin 06-24-2019 02:15 PM

My break is one thing I do well, and I use a light cue with a white diamond tip. I can manipulate where the balls are going depending on where I break from. The biggest issue I have is if I get my grip too tight on the butt, or break too hard. If I concentrate on hitting them soft, and making good contact on the 1 ball my breaks are pretty damn good.

If I start breaking too hard, I'll tend to scratch in the side.

KMRUNOUT 06-24-2019 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6424430)
I have lamented several times on here about my lousy 9 ball break. I have always hated 9 ball and sometimes still do but I have gotten a little more serious about the game since it is a requirement in apa double jeapordy .

I have practiced on nothing but the break many times. Experimented with different locations and different speeds . I have even went through several break cues looking for the magic wand. I have even blamed the disability in my shooting hand on occasion but at other times refuse to accept that as an excuse.

Sometimes it seemed like I had it figured out because I broke good one night but then the next time I broke exactly the same way and had lousy results. This has happened way too many times. I have even asked for pointers from better players with mixed results.

Its an oxymoron being the best 9 ball player on my team and having the worst break of any of my team mates. I aint kidding when I say a girl who is a 3 has a better break than I do.

Like I said....i have went through a few break cues and sometimes even borrowed my opponents breaker during our matches looking for that magic breaker.

I faced a 7 Friday night who I am very friendly with . I used his breaker a few times with decent results and he used mine once and said he did not like it ...actually he said it was no good...i replied I thought it was just me lol.

He has a poison and its light as a feather. So i thought about ordering me one. Then it dawned on me. I have a cue sitting in the closet that is real light with and has a break tip on it. I don't know what the tip is called....its actually a one piece tip/ ferrule combo. Its transparent. I have never seen another one like it. I bought this cue 10 years ago for 20.00 at a pawn shop. It came with 2 shafts . The other shaft has a regular leather tip on it.

So I dug it out of the closet and took it to league last night. I did ok breaking 8 ball with it. Well they dumped a 3 on me in 9 ball and I thought aww crap. So I decided I better check every rack before I broke . To my surprise she gave me a good rack every time and I never had to ask for a rerack.

I broke 5 times ..never scratched. Made a ball 4 times and she was hooked on my one dry break. Had a look at the next ball in the other 4 racks and easy shots in 3 of them.
Held the cue ball in the middle of the table every time and nothing knocked the cue ball in which I have had happen way many times.

One night is too early to tell if I found my magic breaker but I am happy with last nights results.


I was waiting to see if you were going to get around to mentioning the rack. You did, but did not seem to recognize its importance. If you are not getting a consistently frozen rack, any changes you make to your break, equipment, whatever, are random shots in the dark. By a 100 miles the most important element of a 9 ball break is the rack. If you want to verify this for yourself, spend a session breaking with the magic rack. See how you like the results. Break from the side rail, hit the one ball square. Very hard not to make the corner ball. Same is true with a triangle rack if the balls are racked tightly.

Hope it helps,

KMRUNOUT

9andout 06-24-2019 02:55 PM

I haven't tried it. It's a little pricey but.....
I think the "Break Rack" was / is a great product.
https://breakrak.com/

lorider 06-24-2019 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 6424547)
IMHO there is no magical break cue, I often see that many pros don't always stick with the same break cue whether they are sponsored or not.

FTR, I also have a cheap Action J/B cue (@19oz.) that I use at home and yet another in my case that I take to "dive" bars when I'm going alone. Those cues break a rack of 8 and 9-ball as good as any cue I've ever broke with.

So there you have it. Is a successful 9-ball break about the cue...or technique...or strength? I don't know, but my feeling is that it is a combination of the three and not just on the cue itself. I believe the cue may be the lesser component of a good break.

I'm not a very good shooter/player but I have a high percentage of balls made on my breaks coupled with acceptable cue ball control, so I feel like my response on this thread is somewhat valid.

Lorider...I don't know what to tell you, but I admire your willingness to work at what you love. Keep experimenting. Someday, hopefully, something will click and it will just all fall into place.

Maniac

Thanks maniac. yea I know there is no such animal as a magic cue. There are cues that for whatever reason just feel better in your hands than others. I have around 12 cues and play about the same level with with all of them.

lorider 06-24-2019 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical (Post 6424581)
My break cue is a 19ish oz Joss Thor Hammer, a fairly highly rated, well-reviewed break cue. It feels good but I was never really convinced any cue is particularly better than another for breaking. I really consider the only reason to carry a break cue is to avoid wear and tear on your playing cue. The primary thing people look for in a break cue is the ability to hit the cue hard so the other night I tried 5 different cues. I hit each as hard as practical against the foot rail from about 6 inches off the head rail on a 9 ft Gold Crown. I used my Joss Thor Hammer, a 25 oz generic sneaky pete break cue, my crappiest feeling novelty cue (a Winston Tobacco promo cue with a painted shaft), a player with a 12.75mm Jacoby Edge Hybrid w/med Kamui tip, and a Viking Crush Shaft (Vikings basic break cue, phenolic tip).

Purely judging how many times the cue went up and down the table when hit card center ball....there wasn't 5% difference between them.

I think a good 9 ball break is all about technique, there are dozens of theories about the best approach. But as far as cue, I think it makes little difference. Unless you are breaking in a way that relies on a significant amount of English/control any cue will hit a ball hard. If you just want to hit it hard, the only real advantage of a break cue is maybe the fact that you'll be less likely to hold back subconsciously like you might on an expensive player.

I bought a Viking when I decided ti join league and used it as a break cue also. Needless to say the too did not last long so I switched to a water buffalo . Then later on I decided to have a player and a breaker....just like all the other league players lol..

So I bought another cue and relegated the Viking to strictly breaking.. Then some one broke the viking ...not me lol and I bought an alex brick dymond wood jump/ break.

The brick is the only cue I regret getting rid of.. The breaking results were so so just like all my other break cues to date but I could jump like a pro using the full cue per apa rules. Funny story about the brick.. I was playing 9 ball vs another 5 at the time and there was a lil animosity between us and I was goin and determined not to lose to him. Well he day breaks and I are no possible way to get on the 1 ball. Bound and determined not to give him ball in hand I decided ti grab the brick and make a jump shot. Now mind you I had never attempted a jump shot in my life but I saw no alternative to make contact with the one. So my opponent is standing there watching me line up a jump shot...lo and behold ...not only do I make a successful jump I picket the 1 in the intended corner pocket. My opponent then yells ....hey you cant do that.! . I reply...if you are going to be a captain you better learn the rules. He had quit my team and became captain of his own team without giving me any notice thus the animosity. He takes off across the room looking for the league operator. He comes back in a few minutes but never said anything so I continue shooting. Later on the lo sees me and says. I did not know you could jump. I replied neither did I cause I had never attempted a jump shot before and we both started laughing. One night playing a 7/8 who also had a brick we got to talking about our cues. He said he changed to a g-10 ? I believe due to better cue ball control on the breaks. So I changed to one also...yea better cue ball control bit I could not jump with that tip to save my life. Changed back to a white diamond but still could not jump like I did with that original white diamond.

So I get rid of the brick..could kick myself every time I think about it. And got a bk 3. Mixed results with that so got rid of it and got a gullyasee sledge hammer which is currently sitting in the closet.

Got a cheap 25 oz sneaky Pete which I have been using for about a year until I drug that old cue out of the closet and used last night.

Going to continue using this cue for a while.

lorider 06-24-2019 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinay (Post 6424618)
To break well in 9-ball you need (1) a tight rack (2) an accurate hit. A lot of people try to crush rack and end up hitting the 1-ball off-center so the cue ball retains most of its speed and goes flying around the table while the ball pack remains clustered up.

My advice is not to worry about the cue you're using to break and focus more on ensuring that there are no gaps in the rack (this can be difficult on worn cloth with cheap plastic racks), and that you're hitting the 1-ball right perfectly square. Ideally, the cue ball should stop dead when it hits the 1 unless it gets kissed by another ball.

You need to aim your break shot as carefully as you would aim any other shot.

I used to just smash the heck out of them and hope for the best and I changed about 6 months ago to focusing more on a solid hit and cue ball control. I have gotten to where its pretty common to leave the cue ball within a foot of the center of the table. Even so I still usually dry break and my opponent runs a bunch of balls ...if not the entire table....something comes soon and knocks the cue ball in a side pocket. I hate how many times I have dry broke and my opponent makes an easy 9 combo with the one ball.

Oh there are times when I have a good night breaking and i start thinking I finally got the break figured out only to really suck the next match. Not exaggerating one bit when I say I have a girl that is a 3 that breaks better than me. She always makes at least one ball on the break...always. And most times has a look at the next ball. Just wish i had that kind of consistency.

lorider 06-24-2019 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMRUNOUT (Post 6425015)
I was waiting to see if you were going to get around to mentioning the rack. You did, but did not seem to recognize its importance. If you are not getting a consistently frozen rack, any changes you make to your break, equipment, whatever, are random shots in the dark. By a 100 miles the most important element of a 9 ball break is the rack. If you want to verify this for yourself, spend a session breaking with the magic rack. See how you like the results. Break from the side rail, hit the one ball square. Very hard not to make the corner ball. Same is true with a triangle rack if the balls are racked tightly.

Hope it helps,

KMRUNOUT


It just so happens I atarted a thread last week titled ...magic rack...phenomenal results..

My opponent and I were having unreal issues getting a tight rack on this particular table..,he more than I.. Every time he finally got a tight rack the one was not on the spot...close...but not on it.. A few times I said the heck with it and broke anyway....disastrous results lol..

When we got to the 6 th rack hw was still having trouble keeping the one on the spot and asked me if he could use the magic rack as he had one. Although I have never used a magic rack I said sure its got to be better than what we are going through.

6 th rack I break and run down to the 8 and have an easy shot and as soon as I pull the trigger it hits me...hey gotta break and run going on.. Dogged it lol. Left my opponent a cross corner bank which he misses and I run out. Next rack is a break and run for me.... No letting the lil guy whisper in my ear lol.

Next rack I broke and ran to my required points..table looked like another possible break and run..

Now mind you ...it took 12 innings to play 5 racks with him leading 24-22 in a 31 -46 race...me going to 46 of course . Cant get a run or get in line to make a run when you are constantly kicking sue to a lousy break or an opponents lucky leave.

Once we switched to the magic rack I scored 24 points in one inning to win 46-24.

Now I know I am not a great player by any stretch of the imagination but I have thought for a long time that I am a better shooter than a lot of players at my level bit my break always put me at a disadvantage against them.

Cant tell you how many times I dry break the first rack...they run the table or dang near. I scratch some time during the match and they again run a bunch of points .. I out shoot them and win by a few points of lose by a few points having given them a dozen or more points off my lousy breaks.

Some nights when I break good it winds up I am called a sandbagger .

hang-the-9 06-25-2019 06:46 AM

The type of break cue you use is probably the least important part of the break by far. Which is what everyone else is saying also hehe.

#1 would be a good rack to begin with, which can be really hard to do in many places due to wear on the balls, tables in poor shape or bad triangles.

#2 would be the actual break hit, aim and speed for the rack you get or type of rack you use (template rack hit is quite a bit different than standard rack).

#3 would be break cue, that is probably 5% of the results you get from the break.

With a template rack the break cue is pretty much a 0 factor since anyone that smashes a template rack as hard as they can is doing it wrong.

It was actually a bit funny but a few weeks ago I was in a tournament on some 7 footers rack your own 9 ball, I was getting a ball or two on the break and the guy I was playing said "you need to show me what you are doing". Nothing except taking an extra 10 seconds to get a tighter rack and aiming the hit. Once you know a few basics, there is no magic sauce to the break, or really any shot, outside of practice and actually knowing the basics.

My favorite break cues is a house cue with rear balance even though I own 4 break cues. Those are all on the cheaper side, two J&J break/jumps that I won in raffles, one I bought for my son when he was like 12, and a PureX I got used for about $150. All are really there for jump duty more than breaking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6425254)
I bought a Viking when I decided ti join league and used it as a break cue also. Needless to say the too did not last long so I switched to a water buffalo . Then later on I decided to have a player and a breaker....just like all the other league players lol..

So I bought another cue and relegated the Viking to strictly breaking.. Then some one broke the viking ...not me lol and I bought an alex brick dymond wood jump/ break.

The brick is the only cue I regret getting rid of.. The breaking results were so so just like all my other break cues to date but I could jump like a pro using the full cue per apa rules. Funny story about the brick.. I was playing 9 ball vs another 5 at the time and there was a lil animosity between us and I was goin and determined not to lose to him. Well he day breaks and I are no possible way to get on the 1 ball. Bound and determined not to give him ball in hand I decided ti grab the brick and make a jump shot. Now mind you I had never attempted a jump shot in my life but I saw no alternative to make contact with the one. So my opponent is standing there watching me line up a jump shot...lo and behold ...not only do I make a successful jump I picket the 1 in the intended corner pocket. My opponent then yells ....hey you cant do that.! . I reply...if you are going to be a captain you better learn the rules. He had quit my team and became captain of his own team without giving me any notice thus the animosity. He takes off across the room looking for the league operator. He comes back in a few minutes but never said anything so I continue shooting. Later on the lo sees me and says. I did not know you could jump. I replied neither did I cause I had never attempted a jump shot before and we both started laughing. One night playing a 7/8 who also had a brick we got to talking about our cues. He said he changed to a g-10 ? I believe due to better cue ball control on the breaks. So I changed to one also...yea better cue ball control bit I could not jump with that tip to save my life. Changed back to a white diamond but still could not jump like I did with that original white diamond.

So I get rid of the brick..could kick myself every time I think about it. And got a bk 3. Mixed results with that so got rid of it and got a gullyasee sledge hammer which is currently sitting in the closet.

Got a cheap 25 oz sneaky Pete which I have been using for about a year until I drug that old cue out of the closet and used last night.

Going to continue using this cue for a while.


Pete 06-25-2019 06:54 AM

Get a BreakRak. Best money you will spend on your break imo...

lorider 06-25-2019 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang-the-9 (Post 6425536)
The type of break cue you use is probably the least important part of the break by far. Which is what everyone else is saying also hehe.

#1 would be a good rack to begin with, which can be really hard to do in many places due to wear on the balls, tables in poor shape or bad triangles.

#2 would be the actual break hit, aim and speed for the rack you get or type of rack you use (template rack hit is quite a bit different than standard rack).

#3 would be break cue, that is probably 5% of the results you get from the break.

With a template rack the break cue is pretty much a 0 factor since anyone that smashes a template rack as hard as they can is doing it wrong.

It was actually a bit funny but a few weeks ago I was in a tournament on some 7 footers rack your own 9 ball, I was getting a ball or two on the break and the guy I was playing said "you need to show me what you are doing". Nothing except taking an extra 10 seconds to get a tighter rack and aiming the hit. Once you know a few basics, there is no magic sauce to the break, or really any shot, outside of practice and actually knowing the basics.

My favorite break cues is a house cue with rear balance even though I own 4 break cues. Those are all on the cheaper side, two J&J break/jumps that I won in raffles, one I bought for my son when he was like 12, and a PureX I got used for about $150. All are really there for jump duty more than breaking.

I mud have been doing something right to run 22 balls in one inning after switching to the magic rack.my own carelessness for missing one who to prevent running a 2 pack.

hang-the-9 06-25-2019 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6425574)
I mud have been doing something right to run 22 balls in one inning after switching to the magic rack.my own carelessness for missing one who to prevent running a 2 pack.

Hm is math off here somewhere, 22 balls run in one inning would be more than 2 racks, 2 full racks 1-9 is 18 balls. You would have needed to run two racks and another 4 to get 22 in a row.

And yes magic rack break on a 7 footer would give you some nice layouts to run racks, just keep in mind breaks on larger and tougher tables would go differently and would need adjusting. The point people are making is not to worry about what type of cue you use to break. I don't know about the others, but even when I go to pretty major tournaments I don't worry about my break cue, past the fact it's a break/jump. If I was in a place that did not allow jumping I would not think about the break cue at all, would just use a house cue.

lorider 06-25-2019 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang-the-9 (Post 6425595)
Hm is math off here somewhere, 22 balls run in one inning would be more than 2 racks, 2 full racks 1-9 is 18 balls. You would have needed to run two racks and another 4 to get 22 in a row.

And yes magic rack break on a 7 footer would give you some nice layouts to run racks, just keep in mind breaks on larger and tougher tables would go differently and would need adjusting. The point people are making is not to worry about what type of cue you use to break. I don't know about the others, but even when I go to pretty major tournaments I don't worry about my break cue, past the fact it's a break/jump. If I was in a place that did not allow jumping I would not think about the break cue at all, would just use a house cue.

Read my previous post to the one you quoted.. I did indeed break a 3rd rack and run to my required points.

Runner 06-25-2019 08:37 AM

Playing a 9 ball session, we just could NOT get a tight rack, balls
breaking bad. The room had those cheap plastic racks.. when you
went to cinch the balls in the rack, the whole triangle flexed.
The house had an old school oak wood triangle with the metal
glides.. first rack, super tight, boom.. wing ball goes, the rest
spread out great. So IMO a tight rack is #1, and hit the 1 ball
FULL. :thumbup:

vinay 06-25-2019 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterpoole (Post 6424758)
I have had my own struggles with the break and still do, but i think the 'aim' may be different with the break. Try set your aim and then make sure you are looking at the cue ball
and not the 1, when you strike. You want to hit the cueball dead centre. Have a relaxed grip like you would with any other shot. Practice practice practice.

I agree, you need a different technique than regular shots, but my point was you need as much care as you do with other shots. I see a lot of people just wind up and focus more speed than aim.

I see the argument for looking at the cue ball, but I still prefer to keep my eye on the 1-ball, once I've lined myself up and taken a couple of practice strokes because I want to see how the cue ball strikes the 1-ball and there just isn't enough time to shift focus after you strike the cue ball.

Maniac 06-25-2019 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6425627)
Read my previous post to the one you quoted.. I did indeed break a 3rd rack and run to my required points.

You also should have mentioned that the 9-ball counts as two points. That said, you would have still needed a couple of balls in the third rack.

Maniac

hang-the-9 06-26-2019 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6425627)
Read my previous post to the one you quoted.. I did indeed break a 3rd rack and run to my required points.

I was not talking about points, which is only a league thing, but number of balls ran. League scores and handicaps are their own thing, what happens in league scores or matches not not often have much to do with the real world of just running out a rack to win.

Running "22 balls in one inning" should mean you ran 22 balls without leaving the table or have your opponent get to the table, which would be 2 break and runs followed by a break and making 4 more balls. An inning is one turn at the table correct? If you missed in the second rack, that would end your inning.

lorider 06-26-2019 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang-the-9 (Post 6426467)
I was not talking about points, which is only a league thing, but number of balls ran. League scores and handicaps are their own thing, what happens in league scores or matches not not often have much to do with the real world of just running out a rack to win.

Running "22 balls in one inning" should mean you ran 22 balls without leaving the table or have your opponent get to the table, which would be 2 break and runs followed by a break and making 4 more balls. An inning is one turn at the table correct? If you missed in the second rack, that would end your inning.

In apa an the end of an inning occurs when the second shooter leaves the table . In the match mentioned I was the first shooter so the inning is not over until after my opponent shoots and leaves the table.

When we switched to the magic rack I broke and ran 7 balls....missed the 8. My opponent shot and missed the 8. That is one inning. He never shot again the rest od the match and thus it counts as one inning. I hope that clears up the confusion. . Yea I know some times I could probably do a better job of describing the situation lol.

Edited to add I won the lag and was the first shooter. An inning is not marked until after the second shooter completes his turn at the table and . This continues throughout the match and thus innings are only marked after the second shooter completes his turn.

hang-the-9 06-26-2019 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6426484)
In apa an the end of an inning occurs when the second shooter leaves the table . In the match mentioned I was the first shooter so the inning is not over until after my opponent shoots and leaves the table.

When we switched to the magic rack I broke and ran 7 balls....missed the 8. My opponent shot and missed the 8. That is one inning. He never shot again the rest od the match and thus it counts as one inning. I hope that clears up the confusion. . Yea I know some times I could probably do a better job of describing the situation lol.

Edited to add I won the lag and was the first shooter. An inning is not marked until after the second shooter completes his turn at the table and . This continues throughout the match and thus innings are only marked after the second shooter completes his turn.

I still don't get that, you went first that is one inning. He got the table but missed, so when you shot again that is your second inning at the table and the third in the game. Not sure how that can be one inning in APA or not since you were at the table then your opponent was at the table then you were at the table. APA logic there confuses me. If someone shoots but misses that is not an "inning"?

If you were to count "innings" in real pool, not league scoring, to say you ran 22 balls balls in one inning would mean you ran two racks and then some without anyone else shooting. Points or whatever league stuff does is different from how normal pool games are. It's like that thing in Kingpin when he said he bowled some high score, but then when asked about it he said "we count the score in two tries" LOL

lorider 06-26-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hang-the-9 (Post 6426502)
I still don't get that, you went first that is one inning. He got the table but missed, so when you shot again that is your second inning at the table and the third in the game. Not sure how that can be one inning in APA or not since you were at the table then your opponent was at the table then you were at the table. APA logic there confuses me. If someone shoots but misses that is not an "inning"?

If you were to count "innings" in real pool, not league scoring, to say you ran 22 balls balls in one inning would mean you ran two racks and then some without anyone else shooting. Points or whatever league stuff does is different from how normal pool games are. It's like that thing in Kingpin when he said he bowled some high score, but then when asked about it he said "we count the score in two tries" LOL

I understand what you are saying. I guess for simplicities sake on scoresheets apa defines an inning over after the second shooter leaves the table instead of the first shooter.

Lets use this example....actually the 6th rack if this match. I broke and ran 7 balls. My opponent shot and missed . And I ran the table. By your view I shot twice and therefore 2 innings and its still my shot to begin the next inning. My opponent shot once. What do you mark for him ?

Lets say the next rack has the same exact scenario. I shoot ....my opponent shoots and then I close out the rack.

So in essence by your view I played 2 racks in 4 innings and my opponent had 2 innings. That does not work. You are also assuming I am starting an inning when I broke which is untrue. I won the previous rack and my inning is not over until my opponent shoots .

In reality I started the inning. My opponent shoots once . I finish the match and my opponent never gets back to the table so it went 1 inning. Or do you count the end of the match as the end of another inning ?

Maniac 06-26-2019 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorider (Post 6426544)
I understand what you are saying. I guess for simplicities sake on scoresheets apa defines an inning over after the second shooter leaves the table instead of the first shooter.

Lets use this example....actually the 6th rack if this match. I broke and ran 7 balls. My opponent shot and missed . And I ran the table. By your view I shot twice and therefore 2 innings and its still my shot to begin the next inning. My opponent shot once. What do you mark for him ?

Lets say the next rack has the same exact scenario. I shoot ....my opponent shoots and then I close out the rack.

So in essence by your view I played 2 racks in 4 innings and my opponent had 2 innings. That does not work. You are also assuming I am starting an inning when I broke which is untrue. I won the previous rack and my inning is not over until my opponent shoots .

In reality I started the inning. My opponent shoots once . I finish the match and my opponent never gets back to the table so it went 1 inning. Or do you count the end of the match as the end of another inning ?


As yet another example, liken it to a baseball game. It is not yet an inning until both teams have batted.

You're welcome. :thumbup:

Maniac

lorider 06-26-2019 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 6426631)
As yet another example, liken it to a baseball game. It is not yet an inning until both teams have batted.

You're welcome. :thumbup:

Maniac

I was multi tasking and my last post probably confused him even more.lol.

He is correct that i did not run 22 balls in one trip to the table. My statement is correct according to how we score 9 ball.

Begin with the magic rack..

Scoresheet will show me 10 points...that's 9 balls. Opponent 0 and 1 inning.

Next rack will show me 10 points ...again 9 balls. Opponent 0 and 0 innings b& r

Next rack will show me 4 points...that's 4 balls ....opponent 0 and 0 innings.

So that is a total of 22 balls in 1 inning according to the scoresheet. The last inning was never completed before the match was stopped and therefore not marked on the scoresheet. Hope that clears things up hang.

ceebee 06-28-2019 01:15 PM

The Break Shot.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 9andout (Post 6425021)
I haven't tried it. It's a little pricey but.....
I think the "Break Rack" was / is a great product.
https://breakrak.com/

Well, here is the TRUTH, a Break Cue won't teach you anything. But a Training Aid, that has been around for 19 years, can & is guaranteed to please you or your money back. We have many, many BreakRAKs out there, that are 19 years old & still doing well for someone. If you happen to break it, we repair it at no charge.

It's about repetition in any physical action (s) you are trying to learn.. The more methodical repetitions in structured sessions, the more skill you will have.

Good Luck...


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