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-   -   CTE when done correctly.......... (https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=502066)

Low500 11-06-2019 07:07 AM

CTE when done correctly..........
 
The most profound and exciting aspect (to me) of developing the use of CTE aiming is in discovering how TO TRAIN THE EYES TO REALLY WORK FOR A PLAYER IN THIS GAME.
Most aiming methods do not even touch or mention this area of extreme importance. Those methods just say "aim here or there, use something to offset throw, and pull the trigger".
Hal Houle's discoveries of how to really use the eyes and Stan Shuffett's followup work open up a whole new world of aiming possibilities for the player with an open mind. (this will be covered in Stan's Truth Series and his book)
Stan does not say "the eyes lead and the body follows" or "pool is a visual and physical game" without substance and years of research behind the statements. He isn't saying those things just to hear himself talk. Those things are critical for real advancement.
Watch the pro hitters and how they sweep into their shots. Jayson Shaw is a perfect example. He isn't being a "noser". He sweeps into the shots.
I doubt if Shaw even has a clue what we're talking about when discussing 'sweeping' into the shot, (or even cares) but he's still doing it when he plays.

BC21 11-06-2019 07:30 AM

I don't think I've ever seen a player NOT sweep their cue into the shot. It's a natural movement because the cue is held to the side of your body.

When you watch Shaw, or ANY player, including Tyler Styer and Stan himself, when they are down on the cb their eyes are darting back and forth between the cb and the ob. This is how we ensure that our stroke is lined up straight through the cb to where the cb needs, which is done from the "noser" perspective.

I do believe Tyler and Stan and other Pro1 players are getting the line by use of an offset perception, but once they are down on the line they are more than likely matching up to the obvious view of where the cb is being sent via the direction of their stroke, and they match up to it based on what they are seeing. If ccb is the final target, then why are these great CTE players looking back and forth down the shot line? Lol

I don't expect you to answer this because I'm sure you have no clue, and because your best response is going to be that Pavlov pup bit.

JoeyInCali 11-06-2019 10:09 AM

Great.
Shaw does CTE without knowing it.
Pure gold.
Comedy.

Shaw started his game in snooker.
Where they are trained to find the aiming/stroking line then commit to it.
He's the poster boy for anti-fancy pivoting aiming systems.

Know the line and shoot through that line.

Low500 11-06-2019 11:28 AM

They don't know what they don't know.......
 
Ignorance abounds.
When one has been correctly coached and informed about CTE aiming, they find out quickly what a sweep actually means. It is a brilliant discovery.
The sweep is not about the cue sweeping...it is about THE EYES sweeping. CTE ProOne is visual. One's vision sweeps, NOT THE CUE.
And how THAT functions and integrates into successful play will not be revealed until Stan decides the un-informed need to know about it. (which personally suits me just fine, seeing at how so many ignorant people have ridiculed his genius)

Straightpool_99 11-06-2019 11:31 AM

Jayson Shaw uses CTE:rolleyes:.

First of all, Jayson started out in UK pool games, like Blackball. For your information, the cueball is actually smaller in this game, and CTE is completely useless. Claiming him as a poster boy for anything CTE is weapons grade baloney.

He plays like most snooker and blackball professionals. He plants his back foot and after that his backhand position is allready set, and he doesn't have to worry about "going straight down. What he does is that he holds his cue in front of him in with distance between his front and back arm and twists into the shot line. As he goes down, the front arm extends, giving the impression of the cue being pulled back, until it has the final and correct distance to the cueball and bridge length. This has absolutely nothing to do with any pivot system and everything to do with practising stance and fundamentals. This "torquing" into the stance is a staple of snooker teaching and is also taught to blackball players. It accomplishes two things: First it takes care of the arms position before the player goes down (ensuring the correct distances and relationships, grip etc), leaving the player to focus only on getting his head/elbow/shoulder on the precisely determined (when standing up), straight shot line. Secondly the actual torquing (when used with a straight back leg, which Jayson doesn't do) makes the stance a lot more solid. Also it maintains contact with the cue at all times in a natural way.

You could alternatively figure out the correct distance between the back and front hand while standing up, twist at the waist/hip and then go straight down. I did that for a little while, as an experiment. It's slower, less natural and more fatiguing, but it does allow you to maintain the visual of the straight line more easily. Overall it's not worth it, I think, especially for a quick thinker like Jayson. I think it is also bad for the back, long term.

JoeyInCali 11-06-2019 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low500 (Post 6513064)
Ignorance abounds.
When one has been correctly coached and informed about CTE aiming, they find out quickly what a sweep actually means. It is a brilliant discovery.
The sweep is not about the cue sweeping...it is about THE EYES sweeping. CTE ProOne is visual. One's vision sweeps, NOT THE CUE.
And how THAT functions and integrates into successful play will not be revealed until Stan decides the un-informed need to know about it. (which personally suits me just fine, seeing at how so many ignorant people have ridiculed his genius)

OK. Let's see YOU demo it.
Oh wait, you can't.

JoeyInCali 11-06-2019 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 (Post 6513066)
Jayson Shaw uses CTE:rolleyes:.

First of all, Jayson started out in UK pool games, like Blackball. For your information, the cueball is actually smaller in this game, and CTE is completely useless. Claiming him as a poster boy for anything CTE is weapons grade baloney.

Quote:

He plays like most snooker and blackball professionals. He plants his back foot and after that his backhand position is allready set, and he doesn't have to worry about "going straight down. What he does is that he holds his cue in front of him in with distance between his front and back arm and twists into the shot line. As he goes down, the front arm extends, giving the impression of the cue being pulled back, until it has the final and correct distance to the cueball and bridge length. This has absolutely nothing to do with any pivot system and everything to do with practising stance and fundamentals. This "torquing" into the stance is a staple of snooker teaching and is also taught to blackball players. It accomplishes two things: First it takes care of the arms position before the player goes down (ensuring the correct distances and relationships, grip etc), leaving the player to focus only on getting his head/elbow/shoulder on the precisely determined (when standing up), straight shot line. Secondly the actual torquing (when used with a straight back leg, which Jayson doesn't do) makes the stance a lot more solid. Also it maintains contact with the cue at all times in a natural way.

You could alternatively figure out the correct distance between the back and front hand while standing up, twist at the waist/hip and then go straight down. I did that for a little while, as an experiment. It's slower, less natural and more fatiguing, but it does allow you to maintain the visual of the straight line more easily. Overall it's not worth it, I think, especially for a quick thinker like Jayson. I think it is also bad for the back, long term.

And people wonder why there are so many great players today.
Allison Fisher changed the game .

https://youtu.be/xvDjpO39B9I?t=120
Perfectly demonstrated there.

BryanB 11-06-2019 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 (Post 6513066)
Jayson Shaw uses CTE:rolleyes:.

First of all, Jayson started out in UK pool games, like Blackball. For your information, the cueball is actually smaller in this game, and CTE is completely useless.


This is a wrong statement. As long as the CB and OB are the same size, aiming is the same

cookie man 11-06-2019 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC21 (Post 6512855)
If ccb is the final target, then why are these great CTE players looking back and forth down the shot line? Lol

First off because that is the best way to play pool, doesn't mean they aren't using CTE.
Second off they could be tweaking to perfect CCB using the objective reference lines.
Third, we could just sweep to CCB and focus entirely just on the CB and play pretty good like that. It's not preferable but we could.

cookie man 11-06-2019 02:06 PM

Who said Shaw uses CTE, i can't find that post

BC21 11-06-2019 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie man (Post 6513208)
First off because that is the best way to play pool, doesn't mean they aren't using CTE.
Second off they could be tweaking to perfect CCB using the objective reference lines.
Third, we could just sweep to CCB and focus entirely just on the CB and play pretty good like that. It's not preferable but we could.

Understandable. As I said, I believe good players that already have an excellent ability to recognize shot lines probably benefit from using CTE perceptions/visuals as part of their shot PSR. Then once they are down on the cb they inevitably use the shot recognition ability that they spent years developing.

cookie man 11-06-2019 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC21 (Post 6513212)
Understandable. As I said, I believe good players that already have an excellent ability to recognize shot lines probably use CTE perceptions/visuals as part of their shot PSR. Then once they are down on the cb they inevitably use the shot recognition ability that they spent years developing.

Maybe, but i just roll with the visual CTE perceptions.

Dan White 11-06-2019 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie man (Post 6513215)
Maybe, but i just roll with the visual CTE perceptions.

... and then you pivot as much or little as needed to make the shot go, only you don't seem to understand that. Even Stan does it... on video. Just sayin'.

Low500 11-06-2019 02:23 PM

Miyagi say..."Things not always as they seem"
 
Nobody has made the claim that Jayson Shaw uses CTE. That is a supposition made by those who "don't know that they don't know". (creating confusion and chaos)
What Shaw does is VISUALLY sweep into his shot lines. This is a strong indicator that his VISION is minutely offset and in a ProOne position.
Tyler Styer spends hours and hours around all these top hitters and declares they ALL visually sweep into their shots. (The eyes lead and the body follows)
As Stan Shuffett has said before, REAL CTE is a fooler in that one can actually think they're engaged in contact points, ghost ball, or even fractions. However, in reality their visual intelligence has overridden their conventional logic. Regardless of what they think, it is very easy to quietly migrate into an offset without even being aware of it.
:thumbup2:

BC21 11-06-2019 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie man (Post 6513215)
Maybe, but i just roll with the visual CTE perceptions.

And maybe, if these pro players hadn't spent thousands of hours developing the ability to just see the shots, and instead spent thousands of hours with Pro1 and the visuals, they'd just be rolling with the perceptions also.

But I find it hard to believe that years of experience, years of shot recognition programmed into the brain, can just take a back seat and lay dormant without participating in the aiming process. This goes for you, me, and anyone else that has a ton of experience shooting pool. Systems are great and useful, but especially for those who already have a good understanding of where the cb needs to be in order to pocket a ball.


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