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-   -   The story behind the Jackot cues (https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=510460)

johnnysd 04-13-2020 12:06 PM

Words of the day:

Douche

Delusional

Self-aggrandizing

Unethical

Cornerman 04-13-2020 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical (Post 6625070)
I think I paid $59. If people who paid 5 or 6 bills for a $200 Schmelke production cue are happy that's great but it doesn't in my mind say that everyone else is supposed to ignore the lies..

Just talking out loud. I have no interest in defending anybody's post or insulting the ridiculousness of others.


I've hit with plenty of Schmelkes. My JackPot cue doesn't hit like a Schmelke; it hits something reminiscent of an 80's McDermott. There's something different going on, which therefore doesn't make these cues simply relabeled Schmelke Cues, in case that's what people think is happening.

Just food for thought , when Samsara made the X-Breakers, they didn't hit like a Samsara, nor were they supposed to. When people bought an X-breaker, they weren't buying a Samsara. The X-Breaker had its own specifications, and Samsara was the contract builder.

When people buy a Schuler cue built today, they aren't buying a Jacoby. There isn't a spec of design in the build structure of that cue that is anything but Schuler. But Jacoby build them all (ignoring the fact that Noel Mendoza is building a Schuler cue as well).

If Deano were to do this all over again, maybe going to Jacoby would have been a better route. In the end, I feel bad for Schmelke as well. I'm sure he doesn't need this negative press. I know people will say that I don't get it. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few that actually does.

logical 04-13-2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornerman (Post 6625225)
Just talking out loud. I have no interest in defending anybody's post or insulting the ridiculousness of others.


I've hit with plenty of Schmelkes. My JackPot cue doesn't hit like a Schmelke; it hits something reminiscent of an 80's McDermott. There's something different going on, which therefore doesn't make these cues simply relabeled Schmelke Cues, in case that's what people think is happening.

Just food for thought , when Samsara made the X-Breakers, they didn't hit like a Samsara, nor were they supposed to. When people bought an X-breaker, they weren't buying a Samsara. The X-Breaker had its own specifications, and Samsara was the contract builder.

When people buy a Schuler cue built today, they aren't buying a Jacoby. There isn't a spec of design in the build structure of that cue that is anything but Schuler. But Jacoby build them all (ignoring the fact that Noel Mendoza is building a Schuler cue as well).

If Deano were to do this all over again, maybe going to Jacoby would have been a better route. In the end, I feel bad for Schmelke as well. I'm sure he doesn't need this negative press. I know people will say that I don't get it. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few that actually does.

You didn't mention the deception so no, I don't think you get it quite yet. It's not about there being anything wrong with Schmelke, it's that he claimed it was someone else entirely.

Sent from the future.

Cornerman 04-13-2020 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical (Post 6625235)
You didn't mention the deception so no, I don't think you get it quite yet. It's not about there being anything wrong with Schmelke, it's that he claimed it was someone else entirely.

Sent from the future.

I totally get it. I guess I must be the only one.

ideologist 04-13-2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornerman (Post 6625225)
If Deano were to do this all over again, maybe being honest and not a ridiculous carnival barker would have been a better route

Fixed that for you.

Also 100% agree with logical, just because you don't mind that he was dishonest, nor do you mind that a $500-$600 cue hit like a $100 cue, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You obviously don't get it.

poolhustler 04-13-2020 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kickin' Chicken (Post 6624924)
but this isn't the point, at all.

It's that they were presented as something they were not, good value/bad value notwithstanding.

...point taken Brian !!

logical 04-13-2020 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ideologist (Post 6625238)
Fixed that for you.



Also 100% agree with logical, just because you don't mind that he was dishonest, nor do you mind that a $500-$600 cue hit like a $100 cue, doesn't mean it didn't happen. You obviously don't get it.

He clearly gets it in a way that only he gets.

Sent from the future.

ideologist 04-13-2020 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical (Post 6625249)
He clearly gets it in a way that only he gets.

Sent from the future.

He's just turning his nose up at us peasants that don't understand the clear similarity between high volume white label contract manufacturing and small order "custom" pool cues.

Us silly peasants, we should get on his level.

Cornerman 04-13-2020 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ideologist (Post 6625254)
He's just turning his nose up at us peasants that don't understand the clear similarity between high volume white label contract manufacturing and small order "custom" pool cues.

Us silly peasants, we should get on his level.

If that's how it has to read, then that's it then. This looks on paper as a basic custom batch order with customer specifications to a contract cue manufacturer. This doesn't look like a catalog order with re-labeling. Do you see it as the former or the latter?

Deano does use the carnival barker approach. No denying it, and everyone should know that he sells with hype.

penguin 04-13-2020 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornerman (Post 6625225)
If Deano were to do this all over again, maybe going to Jacoby would have been a better route. In the end, I feel bad for Schmelke as well. I'm sure he doesn't need this negative press. I know people will say that I don't get it. I'm pretty sure I'm one of the few that actually does.

One thing I think you fail to take into account is the "build quality", or lack thereof, of the Jackpot cues.

Schmelke makes a good cue - at their particular low price point.

But no one in their right mind would put the build quality of a Schmelke cue as being on a par with, let's say, Johnny Sanchez of Libra Cues.

We can all agree that how a cue plays can be very subjective, but a big part of the deception was the Jackpot cues were sold as not only well-designed, but as extremely well-made custom cues.

As we know, this is not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornerman (Post 6625225)
I've hit with plenty of Schmelkes. My JackPot cue doesn't hit like a Schmelke; it hits something reminiscent of an 80's McDermott.

Funny you should use the 1980's McDermott cues as a comparison. Do you think the Jackpot cues will hold together just as well 30 years from now? I sure don't.

And I won't even mention the "value" of a Jackpot cue should someone attempt to resell one. :eek:

Shawn Armstrong 04-13-2020 01:22 PM

This wouldnít even be a discussion if the manufacturer being mentioned, had the capacity to build a $500 cue. They donít. Sorry. If they went with Pechauer, or Jacoby, Iím guaranteeing there would be very little grief. However, when you charge double the retail of a companyís highest end offering, youíre going to be in for a rough ride. Doesnít matter if you have Schmelke the dimensions to a SW. It would still be a Schmelke, and it would be a cold day in hell before Iíd pay anything north of $150 for any offering from them.

Cornerman 04-13-2020 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguin (Post 6625272)
One thing I think you fail to take into account is the "build quality", or lack thereof, of the Jackpot cues.

Schmelke makes a good cue - at their particular low price point.

But no one in their right mind would put the build quality of a Schmelke cue as being on a par with, let's say, Johnny Sanchez of Libra Cues.

We can all agree that how a cue plays can be very subjective, but a big part of the deception was the Jackpot cues were sold as not only well-designed, but as extremely well-made custom cues.

As we know, this is not the case.

Funny you should use the 1980's McDermott cues as a comparison. Do you think the Jackpot cues will hold together just as well 30 years from now? I sure don't.

And I won't even mention the "value" of a Jackpot cue should someone attempt to resell one. :eek:

I think these points are a departure from what the majority are complaining about: that they thought Jack was making them, but in fact other people were contracted to make them.

I have an 80's McDermott shaft that fell apart. I have also one from the 80's that is a prized treasure. I don't know who got their Jackpot cue for resale value.

Until I heard of Jack Potter on AZ and Libra Cues, I had no idea what a Libra Cue was. I still don't. It's not important to me. I can't speak to why anyone else got one of these cues.

Cornerman 04-13-2020 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong (Post 6625274)
This wouldnít even be a discussion if the manufacturer being mentioned, had the capacity to build a $500 cue. They donít. Sorry. If they went with Pechauer, or Jacoby, Iím guaranteeing there would be very little grief. However, when you charge double the retail of a companyís highest end offering, youíre going to be in for a rough ride. Doesnít matter if you have Schmelke the dimensions to a SW. It would still be a Schmelke, and it would be a cold day in hell before Iíd pay anything north of $150 for any offering from them.

Lots of good stuff here, Shawn. But people were definitely griping long before they found out it was Schmelke. Did the fact that it's Schmelke make things worse? Or maybe it made a confirmation of the worst fears?

logical 04-13-2020 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong (Post 6625274)
This wouldnít even be a discussion if the manufacturer being mentioned, had the capacity to build a $500 cue. They donít. Sorry. If they went with Pechauer, or Jacoby, Iím guaranteeing there would be very little grief. However, when you charge double the retail of a companyís highest end offering, youíre going to be in for a rough ride. Doesnít matter if you have Schmelke the dimensions to a SW. It would still be a Schmelke, and it would be a cold day in hell before Iíd pay anything north of $150 for any offering from them.

I still think it's about honest disclosure prior to the sale and you know...not flat out lying about who was making the cues. I don't think it's out of the question that an experienced and modern low end cue factory could make a small run of cues worth a premium price. For all I know they are as good as many more expensive cues....not the point here.

It's one thing to sell mystery cues because the buyer knows he's rolling the dice. Its another thing entirely to represent them as something they clearly are not.

Sent from the future.

Shawn Armstrong 04-13-2020 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logical (Post 6625284)
I still think it's about honest disclosure prior to the sale and you know...not flat out lying about who was making the cues. I don't think it's out of the question that an experienced and modern low end cue factory could make a small run of cues worth a premium price. For all I know they are as good as many more expensive cues....not the point here.

It's one thing to sell mystery cues because the buyer knows he's rolling the dice. Its another thing entirely to represent them as something they clearly are not.

Sent from the future.

Listen, I get it. Really. The deception bothers me to no end. But, letís get to the truth of the matter - letís say these things ended up being made by a former SW employee that was going on his own, and made some super high quality plain janes as his entry into the market....that would end up being a neat backstory, and if the cues were of the utmost quality, then there would be some ruffled feathers, perhaps, but not many.

When you portray a $150 Schmackpot as a $500 custom cue, thatís a stretch. And, quite frankly, beyond the scope of Schmelke as a manufacturer. If they could build $500 cues, they would have by now.


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