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-   -   How much Shim? (https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=508139)

bchap05 02-27-2020 10:20 AM

How much Shim?
 
Hello I hate to be the new guy coming in with questions, I know how forums work as I'm a good member of a few non pool related ones. Anyways I searched and haven't found a good answer.

I just got a Presidential table that has barely been used in perfect condition for a super good deal with balls and felt that match my favorite team. I want to install it correctly so I got a Starrett level and everything recommended.

I got it to the point last night where it was very close to level at all check points using the starrett just by it itself as well as on top of a 4 ft. Ball tests from side to corner roll nice and straight.

2 things I missed I didn't check the curve of the slate grind as mentioned in the sticky on install. And I feel like I had to use a lot of shim. As in most of the slate is sitting maybe an 1/8th inch off the frame or more. Should i have had to use that much shim?

How important is the curve if I end up being non matching? I'm tempted to take it apart one more time and follow exactly but it was a pain getting it to that point in the first place.

Also I'm no professional player so if it was slightly off would I likely notice? no. But I'd like to do it right. Also is there a more clear image of the table layout from the sticky anywhere? It is too blown up and you can't see the referenced numbers.

rexus31 02-27-2020 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6589440)
Hello I hate to be the new guy coming in with questions, I know how forums work as I'm a good member of a few non pool related ones. Anyways I searched and haven't found a good answer.

I just got a Presidential table that has barely been used in perfect condition for a super good deal with balls and felt that match my favorite team. I want to install it correctly so I got a Starrett level and everything recommended.

I got it to the point last night where it was very close to level at all check points using the starrett just by it itself as well as on top of a 4 ft. Ball tests from side to corner roll nice and straight.

2 things I missed I didn't check the curve of the slate grind as mentioned in the sticky on install. And I feel like I had to use a lot of shim. As in most of the slate is sitting maybe an 1/8th inch off the frame or more. Should i have had to use that much shim?

How important is the curve if I end up being non matching? I'm tempted to take it apart one more time and follow exactly but it was a pain getting it to that point in the first place.

Also I'm no professional player so if it was slightly off would I likely notice? no. But I'd like to do it right. Also is there a more clear image of the table layout from the sticky anywhere? It is too blown up and you can't see the referenced numbers.

Did you level the frame before you put the slates on?

bchap05 02-27-2020 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexus31 (Post 6589591)
Did you level the frame before you put the slates on?

I did. Using rubber spacers since its on laminate. Obviously rubber spacers aren't the most fine tunable so its I'd say carpenter level and mostly Starrett level.

rexus31 02-27-2020 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6589778)
I did. Using rubber spacers since its on laminate. Obviously rubber spacers aren't the most fine tunable so its I'd say carpenter level and mostly Starrett level.

My money is on the frame/base isn't level.

bchap05 02-27-2020 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexus31 (Post 6589795)
My money is on the frame/base isn't level.

It was level at one point. I used the Starrett on it. Seconds from just smashing slate and throwing table away.

trentfromtoledo 02-28-2020 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6589874)
It was level at one point. I used the Starrett on it. Seconds from just smashing slate and throwing table away.

Have you thought of spending the money to have a professional set it up? Sounds like your best option if you are at the " pool table destruction " point.
Good luck to you!

TFT

bradsh98 02-28-2020 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6589440)
most of the slate is sitting maybe an 1/8th inch off the frame or more. Should i have had to use that much shim?

How important is the curve if I end up being non matching?

Are you referring to one of the slates? or all 3 slates? With many of these tables, it is common for the frames to sag in the middle. It may require very thick shims, to get the slates level. However, the ends of the frame should be mostly in contact with the slates.

Ideally, you would have the grind curvature facing the same direction for all 3 slates, as the slates were ground in this fashion, as a complete set. However, This has very little impact on the finished product, if all 3 slates are level. Don't sweat it.

Again, if the table is level, the thickness of the shims that you used won't matter much. Perhaps you could have gotten the frame a bit more level before you started, which would have netted less shims under the slates. But really, not a huge issue. Don't sweat it.

garczar 02-28-2020 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6589874)
It was level at one point. I used the Starrett on it. Seconds from just smashing slate and throwing table away.

Please video any destruction. Maybe toss in some explosives. ;)

muskyed 02-28-2020 01:06 PM

Not a professional here, but would agree with a strong likely hood of the frame sagging, that would require a little more shimming of the center slate, than the end ones. Went through this on my last Brunswick when I took it apart to recover. Balls rolled slightly to the center prior to the recover. Before resetting the slates, and while they were off, I reinforced the frame by gluing and screwing another layer of 3/4" oak around the whole inside perimeter of the frame. This really strengthened up and stiffened the frame. Did it last year about this time, and the level has had no noticeable change. It was quite easy for me to do, as I have a full woodworking shop at my home.

bchap05 02-28-2020 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo (Post 6590084)
Have you thought of spending the money to have a professional set it up? Sounds like your best option if you are at the " pool table destruction " point.
Good luck to you!

TFT

Thought about it but the place I checked locally wanted like 600 just for set up, even though I'd already moved it, set up frame etc.. I'm remodeling my entire house 100% and so its one of those things that if I'm handy enough to redo bathrooms, plumbing, kitchens, etc it pisses me off that I'm struggling to level something haha.

bchap05 02-28-2020 02:14 PM

After lots of cussing and calming myself down. I restarted and ended up adding a small shim to the frame to get it a bit more level. Then basically started over in a more calm state and finally got it really level. It was sagging in the middle as many of you said so it was requiring fairly large shims in the middle.

But anywhere i check now with the Starrett is nearly spot on. Or if anything off a line or so which I'm fine with.

garczar 02-29-2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6590445)
After lots of cussing and calming myself down. I restarted and ended up adding a small shim to the frame to get it a bit more level. Then basically started over in a more calm state and finally got it really level. It was sagging in the middle as many of you said so it was requiring fairly large shims in the middle.

But anywhere i check now with the Starrett is nearly spot on. Or if anything off a line or so which I'm fine with.

Dang it, i was really looking forward to mass destruction. ;) Glad you got her fixed.

Boxcar 02-29-2020 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bchap05 (Post 6590445)
After lots of cussing and calming myself down. I restarted and ended up adding a small shim to the frame to get it a bit more level. Then basically started over in a more calm state and finally got it really level. It was sagging in the middle as many of you said so it was requiring fairly large shims in the middle.

But anywhere i check now with the Starrett is nearly spot on. Or if anything off a line or so which I'm fine with.

Take heart, Brother! Think about what those poor guys have to deal with on the greens at Augusta.


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