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 Shanesmj 06-17-2019 08:37 AM

Rail shot english

Can someone explain IF there is a reason these are different...

Adding side spin when the object ball is on the rail vs just off the rail... I am rather consistent adding different English when the object ball is off the rail but almost the same shot when the object ball is on the rail and the shot consistency drops. It just seems like it should be a similar shot... I was told it is just in my head but I'm really doubting that?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7d893151fe.jpg

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 Bob Jewett 06-17-2019 09:54 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shanesmj (Post 6419162) Can someone explain IF there is a reason these are different... Adding side spin when the object ball is on the rail vs just off the rail... I am rather consistent adding different English when the object ball is off the rail but almost the same shot when the object ball is on the rail and the shot consistency drops. It just seems like it should be a similar shot... I was told it is just in my head but I'm really doubting that? ...
I think the best approach is to aim the shot while ignoring the rail. I used to have a problem in that I tried to hit the rail and the object ball at the same time when it was frozen and that is nearly always the wrong way to play it. Because throw exists you nearly always need to have the cue ball contact the cushion before the object ball. But is it a mistake to think about it. Practice.

There is a remotely possible problem with the table on frozen ball shots. If the nose of the cushion has a small dent in it and the ball is exactly there, the shot can be very hard. I have seen such dents made intentionally as a gaff.

 Patrick Johnson 06-17-2019 12:40 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bob Jewett (Post 6419204) I think the best approach is to aim the shot while ignoring the rail.
I agree. It can be hard to ignore, but not ignoring it is the most likely problem.

Ironically, the rail actually makes it easier to aim for many (including me), especially those who aim using the OB contact point - it's easier to see with the rail "pointing the way". In fact there's an aiming technique where you pretend the OB is against a rail (pointing toward the pocket) no matter where on the table it is.

pj
chgo

 FranCrimi 06-17-2019 02:49 PM

When the ob is frozen to the rail, it's all about the cue ball hitting rail first as Bob Jewett wrote. I believe that inside English, --- English is side spin and not top spin or back spin --- increases your margin of error by the angle the cue ball comes off the rail in a helping way towards the rail-first shot.

Sure you can do it without inside, but without inside I think you have to be absolutely precise in the point the cb hits the rail because it's coming off the rail in a way that's not necessarily helping the shot.

If needed for position, you can combine the inside English with top or back spin. Whenever possible, I like that shot with low inside. It seems to widen the angle the cb comes off the rail just a bit more in that minuscule period of time, helping the shot even more.

As far as what to think about, for me, when I use inside English on the shot, I just aim for a tad before the ob. Works like a charm.

What's a 'tad?' It's the amount that pockets the ball.

 KenRobbins 06-17-2019 04:52 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shanesmj (Post 6419162) Can someone explain IF there is a reason these are different... Adding side spin when the object ball is on the rail vs just off the rail... I am rather consistent adding different English when the object ball is off the rail but almost the same shot when the object ball is on the rail and the shot consistency drops. It just seems like it should be a similar shot... I was told it is just in my head but I'm really doubting that?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7d893151fe.jpg Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
It's in your head, no science project needed. Shut your mind off and shoot the shot a thousand times with top, bottom, inside, outside and center ball. You'll need to shoot the shot for whatever position is needed for the next shot when it comes up. If you want to master the shot, get intimate with whitey. Or sit back on your hands waiting for the availability of an instructor. Either way, your going to have to practice the shot until you nail it.

 bbb 06-17-2019 05:03 PM

i am not an instructor so i would welcome what the instructors think about my comments
when the cue ball is off the rail
the pocket has a margin of error ...alittle thick hit ...alittle thin hit...the ball goes in...:)
with the ball on the rail the hit has to be more precise
and using sidespin (english) makes it harder to be precise
use the suggestions above

 ENGLISH! 06-17-2019 05:14 PM

Realize this... there is no place for the Collision Induced Throw to go... except INTO the rail... & the rail prevents cutting the ball more to compensate for CIT. So... there is Ms. Crimi's method... & using outside spin to gear off the CIT.

The shots are NOT the same...so thinking of them being the same & ignoring the rail is a mistake... imHo. But whatever works for whatever individual.

Practice... Practice... Practice...

Best Wishes.

 Shanesmj 06-17-2019 05:18 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by bbb (Post 6419500) i am not an instructor so i would welcome what the instructors think about my comments when the cue ball is off the rail the pocket has a margin of error ...alittle thick hit ...alittle thin hit...the ball goes in...:) with the ball on the rail the hit has to be more precise and using sidespin (english) makes it harder to be precise use the suggestions above
You are not an instructor... BUT your explanation about "margin of error" makes a lot of sense. Duh ... of course the pocket is bigger when the object ball is off the rail. (I can hit it either thin or thick and still make it...) whereas when the object ball is on the rail if I hit it too thick the object ball hits the rail immediately pushing it off track...

Thanks!

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 Shanesmj 06-17-2019 05:28 PM

I am going to try practicing with low inside and rail first to see if I can get more consistency... However, I am usually changing the English because I'm trying to get position on my next shot so shooting with the same English everytime does not really feel like the solution... maybe the "go to" English for the shot when position on my next shot is not important.

Thanks...

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 bbb 06-17-2019 05:37 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Shanesmj (Post 6419511) You are not an instructor... BUT your explanation about "margin of error" makes a lot of sense. Duh ... of course the pocket is bigger when the object ball is off the rail. (I can hit it either thin or thick and still make it...) whereas when the object ball is on the rail if I hit it too thick the object ball hits the rail immediately pushing it off track... Thanks! Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk