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-   -   Base of Ball or Edge of Ball (https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=494287)

Poolhall60561 05-24-2019 08:25 AM

Base of Ball or Edge of Ball
 
I play edge of ball when shooting out of the kitchen.
Some players want base of ball which can offer better opportunities.

What is the rule?

Patrick Johnson 05-24-2019 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poolhall60561 (Post 6402564)
I play edge of ball when shooting out of the kitchen.
Some players want base of ball which can offer better opportunities.

What is the rule?

To be "in the kitchen" the base of a ball must be inside the line (not on it).

To be "out of the kitchen" the base of a ball must be on or outside the line.

For a legal hit with ball in hand in the kitchen, the cue ball must:

- start inside the line, and

- have its base on or outside the line when it contacts a ball (or a rail before hitting a ball), or

- hit a ball whose base is on or outside the line (in this case no part of the CB needs to be on or outside the line).

pj
chgo

Island Drive 05-24-2019 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poolhall60561 (Post 6402564)
I play edge of ball when shooting out of the kitchen.
Some players want base of ball which can offer better opportunities.

What is the rule?

The rule is, before you start a match with anyone, this should ALWAYS....be Clear. Some guys are so anal, that you have to ask em. Center of the round rail spot or outside edge of the rail spots.

If they make a big deal ''outtof'' it....probablay better to look elsewhere for a game.

Bob Jewett 05-24-2019 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poolhall60561 (Post 6402564)
I play edge of ball when shooting out of the kitchen.
Some players want base of ball which can offer better opportunities.

What is the rule?

There are lots of rules as Bill mentioned. If you want to go by the rule book it is the center of the ball (or base of ball, as some say). The detail of a ball being exactly on the line is as PJ said above.

The World Standardized Rules are here: https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/ and Rule 1.5 "Cue Ball in Hand" is the one to start with.

megatron69 05-24-2019 11:45 AM

Best thing to do is to just take the line out of play.

I just pretend the line for the kitchen is exactly the same as the endzone line in football. So the width of the circle or the diamond is an invisible 'wall' about a half-inch think (or whatever, never bothered to measure the thing). I place the cue at least an inch inside that 'wall.'

Sidenote: Anyone anal enough to give you grief over exactly what the rule is or where exactly it's legal/illegal to place the cue in the kitchen is not worth playing. I've played dozens of these people in leagues/tournaments in nearly a dozen different states over 35 years, and it's just not worth the trouble. A good player doesn't need to try and use the rules to beat you; they will let their play speak for itself.

Bob Jewett 05-24-2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megatron69 (Post 6402673)
Best thing to do is to just take the line out of play.

I just pretend ...

No, I think the best thing to do is to play by the rule. The real problem comes in when you need to know whether an object ball is playable or not. Placing the cue ball an inch different is usually not that important. For the object ball, you really need a clear rule.

megatron69 05-24-2019 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett (Post 6402686)
No, I think the best thing to do is to play by the rule. The real problem comes in when you need to know whether an object ball is playable or not. Placing the cue ball an inch different is usually not that important. For the object ball, you really need a clear rule.

Oh, we're talking about the object ball . . . Okay, then never mind my first post.

With the object ball, I basically do the same thing as noted above. The base of the ball must be outside the kitchen. Though I won't argue about that either; if my opponent wants to argue about whether the base of the ball is or isn't across, I'll concede it immediately and shoot something else.

Again, I'm not there to argue about a rule, I'm there to play. If I can't win because of that rule, or any rule for that matter, I didn't deserve (or wasn't good enough that night) to win anyway.

Tennesseejoe 05-24-2019 12:28 PM

It would be good if all tables had a line drawn across the head spot to show where the kitchen is. It is very much "Old School" to disregard the rules.

Patrick Johnson 05-24-2019 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megatron69 (Post 6402673)
Best thing to do is to just take the line out of play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Jewett (Post 6402686)
No, I think the best thing to do is to play by the rule.

I'm kinda on the fence about whether using center or edge is better - I think it's possible to see one better than the other, and it doesn't matter to me, so... as long as it's understood, I'm good.

pj
chgo

iusedtoberich 05-24-2019 12:45 PM

I hate the term “base of ball”. I don’t know why the rule book does not say “center of ball”.

I have 3 standard questions I ask before every 1 pocket session:

1) edge or center of ball
2) is OB off table a foul
3) are 3 fouls loss of game

In 20 years of playing, I’ve never had a single person say center of ball.

Bob Jewett 05-24-2019 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iusedtoberich (Post 6402703)
I hate the term “base of ball”. I don’t know why the rule book does not say “center of ball”....

Maybe like this from the WPA rules?
8.13 Position of Balls

The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot.

pt109 05-24-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennesseejoe (Post 6402694)
It would be good if all tables had a line drawn across the head spot to show where the kitchen is. It is very much "Old School" to disregard the rules.

A room I was involved in...90s...at 4:00 AM one time, I drew in the balk line...
...the triangle, and a line from the head spot to the center of the end rail.
I came in late afternoon....and they were freaking...and checking security cameras...
...they thought it was an act of vandalism....til I explained...some people are starting to
play one pocket and straight pool....these lines solve problems.
...they relaxed and I drew more on three more action tables.

What the hell, the first one was my Anniversary

I’ve always used base of the ball...had to remind some snooker players that when
you’re shooting from the D, you can put whitey right on a spot for the D colors.

336Robin 05-24-2019 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Drive (Post 6402579)
The rule is, before you start a match with anyone, this should ALWAYS....be Clear. Some guys are so anal, that you have to ask em. Center of the round rail spot or outside edge of the rail spots.

If they make a big deal ''outtof'' it....probablay better to look elsewhere for a game.

You got that right. All they are doing is trying to rob you of chances to hurt them if they scratch. At least in one pocket anyway.

Patrick Johnson 05-24-2019 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iusedtoberich (Post 6402703)
I hate the term “base of ball”. I don’t know why the rule book does not say “center of ball”.

I like "base of" ball's descriptiveness - but you mostly judge a ball's position near the line by sighting from above, where "center of" ball is probably more useful.

pj
chgo

iusedtoberich 05-24-2019 05:40 PM

The problem I have with the word base, is when you are down with your eyeball near the table, there is a patch of ball about 1/4” wide that looks like it’s all in contact with the cloth. I’ve had some players when I asked them “what does base of ball rule mean to you” say that entire patch counts. And a couple of these guys were good players.

I’ve seen the same thing with spotting balls on the foot spot, or racking. That the entire approx 1” diameter of the paper spot counts!

When you use the word center, I think it’s much less ambiguous. It’s a point. Not a patch.


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