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 El Diablo 04-07-2005 05:02 PM

BCA 8-Ball Rule Question

Here's an 8-Ball Question that came up at league the other night.

Can you ask a referee if the cue ball is frozen to an opponents ball (not on the rail) that may or may not be impeding your shot?

I know that you should be able to ask a referee whether the cue ball is frozen to your object ball or whether an object ball is frozen to the rail, but what about this?

I know, I'm not sure why someone would need to ask this because they should be able to look themselves. As a referee, I felt like if I told the player whether it was frozen, it would make them change their shot selection and be more like giving advice.

Here's how the shot was set up, the shooter is on the fifteen ball:

START(
%AB7B6%BB9C0%CC1B6%DC0C0%E_5L5%FB4B7%GB9B9%HC0B9%I B9B9%JB2B0
%KB9C0%LB7B6%MB2B8%NA9B3%OY8L6%P_5K3%U[8L2%V^5K4
)END

 Teacherman 04-07-2005 06:07 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by El Diablo ...As a referee...

Surely not one of those 2 hour seminar refs. :confused:

 Billy_Bob 04-08-2005 06:57 AM

I don't see any reason why it would matter if the cue ball was frozen to an opponents ball or not, or any reason to declare that it was frozen???

The thing to do in this situation is call the ref over to "watch the shot". To be sure the opponent's ball does not move when the cue ball is hit. And if the opponent's ball does move, then it would be a foul.

So far as declaring balls "frozen" or "not frozen" before shooting...

You would do this with a ball on the cushion. If you want to just lightly bump the ball with the cue ball (safety), then if it was not frozen, it would be a good hit. If it was frozen prior to the hit, then it would be a foul.

So if you plan to lightly bump an object ball very close to the cushion, it is a good idea to declare it not frozen, let your opponent inspect the ball, then if the players can't agree, I suppose get the ref over to decide if it is frozen or not. [If it is frozen, you would need to hit the ball, then drive the cue ball or another ball to the rail.]

Another situation is when the cue ball is frozen to your object ball. You would want to first declare it frozen and let your opponent inspect the ball and agree. Then if frozen, you can legally hit the cue ball with a normal stroke [toward the object ball] and it is not a foul - not a double hit. If it is not frozen, then might want to get the ref over to watch for a double hit.

 El Diablo 04-08-2005 07:13 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Teacherman You're willing to admit this????? Surely not one of those 2 hour seminar refs. :confused:
No, I'm a zero hour seminar ref. ;)

I've never had anyone ask me about an impeding ball before. I'm not sure why anyone ever would.

I didn't tell the shooter whether the ball was frozen or not, but there was some discussion between myself and the tournament director and a couple of other players whether I should have. I said no.

 mscue 04-08-2005 07:21 AM

My understanding is that ref's cannot call make the call if a ball is frozen or not. That is something that has be agreed upon by the players. All a ref can do is watch the shot and call it a fair hit or foul. If a ref determines a ball is or is not frozen, then it may alter the way the shooter will shoot the ball, thus giving the shooter and inadvertant coach.

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