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-   -   why tip expand upon application? (https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=499557)

evergruven 09-15-2019 12:50 AM

why tip expand upon application?
 
got a one-piece tip, my man put it on the stick
tried to trim it to fit shaft profile without success
the tip expanded like one of those sponges you put in water
it just kept growing
has anybody ever experienced this?
why might this have happened?

ps it's ugly but doesn't play bad

RiverCity 09-15-2019 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evergruven (Post 6477409)
got a one-piece tip, my man put it on the stick
tried to trim it to fit shaft profile without success
the tip expanded like one of those sponges you put in water
it just kept growing
has anybody ever experienced this?
why might this have happened?

ps it's ugly but doesn't play bad

Im guessing milk dud?

Lots of single layer tips can 'fluff' out, because there isnt a lot of consistency from tip to tip.

Elkmasters are well known to do this, even when pressed ala milk dud.

If your tip guy is reputable, he should replace it no charge assuming it was his tip. If you brought it to him for install only, you should pay to have it changed out.

evergruven 09-15-2019 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverCity (Post 6477412)
Im guessing milk dud?

Lots of single layer tips can 'fluff' out, because there isnt a lot of consistency from tip to tip.

Elkmasters are well known to do this, even when pressed ala milk dud.

If your tip guy is reputable, he should replace it no charge assuming it was his tip. If you brought it to him for install only, you should pay to have it changed out.

thanks river
the tip was a gift, I'm not sure what it is exactly
but I paid for it, and also it's eventual replacement :D
when tips fluff out like this, are they automatically bunk or ?
I was thinking about trying an elkmaster next..never tried one before

EddieBme 09-15-2019 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evergruven (Post 6477409)
got a one-piece tip, my man put it on the stick
tried to trim it to fit shaft profile without success
the tip expanded like one of those sponges you put in water
it just kept growing
has anybody ever experienced this?
why might this have happened?

ps it's ugly but doesn't play bad

Was it an elkmaster, and did he use a lathe to do the trimming or a razor etc.?

jrctherake 09-15-2019 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evergruven (Post 6477415)
thanks river
the tip was a gift, I'm not sure what it is exactly
but I paid for it, and also it's eventual replacement :D
when tips fluff out like this, are they automatically bunk or ?
I was thinking about trying an elkmaster next..never tried one before

If your looking for (as you said) sponge-like hit/feel, well, yep....get an elk master.

What tip have you been using and why did you change?

Jeff

RiverCity 09-15-2019 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evergruven (Post 6477415)
thanks river
the tip was a gift, I'm not sure what it is exactly
but I paid for it, and also it's eventual replacement :D
when tips fluff out like this, are they automatically bunk or ?
I was thinking about trying an elkmaster next..never tried one before

The typically will continue to flake when they blow out like that, best to just replace it.

Elkmasters are so soft, you can shape them, pound some center ball hits, and the tip will be flattened out almost completely. I have tried various milk duds over the years, and have never been impressed. If you want a tip that hits 'medium' hard, start with one that is designed to do so.

Tips arent rocket science, some are complete shit off the get go, and others are good. Which one you prefer is just that, up to your personal preferences.

Most of the name brands you hear bandied about are fine tips, find one you like and stick to it.

Some people will inevitably talk shit about some brands because of a bad experience. Some might be based on counterfeit tips, of which there are a lot of, so if you want to buy your own tips, buy from trusted online retailers.

ShootingArts 09-15-2019 04:41 AM

dull tool?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evergruven (Post 6477409)
got a one-piece tip, my man put it on the stick
tried to trim it to fit shaft profile without success
the tip expanded like one of those sponges you put in water
it just kept growing
has anybody ever experienced this?
why might this have happened?

ps it's ugly but doesn't play bad


Never seen this happen hand shaping with a sharp tool. lathe shaping with a dull tool or the wrong tool angle, yes it is common.

I did an entire article on exacto knife blades about the time a magazine folded. Some blades start out a lot sharper than others, stay sharp longer too. Premium blades are worth the price. The other thing, if the blade is just laid on a flat surface as is common, the bevel of the blade creates a negative rake. Can't get a clean scraping cut like that and it dulls the blade rapidly.

Hu

kevoka 09-15-2019 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootingArts (Post 6477438)
Never seen this happen hand shaping with a sharp tool. lathe shaping with a dull tool or the wrong tool angle, yes it is common.

I did an entire article on exacto knife blades about the time a magazine folded. Some blades start out a lot sharper than others, stay sharp longer too. Premium blades are worth the price. The other thing, if the blade is just laid on a flat surface as is common, the bevel of the blade creates a negative rake. Can't get a clean scraping cut like that and it dulls the blade rapidly.

Hu

Is the article available online to read?

jimmyco 09-15-2019 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShootingArts (Post 6477438)
Never seen this happen hand shaping with a sharp tool. lathe shaping with a dull tool or the wrong tool angle, yes it is common.

I did an entire article on exacto knife blades about the time a magazine folded. Some blades start out a lot sharper than others, stay sharp longer too. Premium blades are worth the price. The other thing, if the blade is just laid on a flat surface as is common, the bevel of the blade creates a negative rake. Can't get a clean scraping cut like that and it dulls the blade rapidly.

Hu

A chisel grind blade will eliminate these problems.

X-Acto #17

ShootingArts 09-15-2019 10:59 AM

yes it would!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyco (Post 6477595)
A chisel grind blade will eliminate these problems.

X-Acto #17


Yes it would work and take care of the bevel issue. Not much cutting surface so I don't know how long they would last. However, good to know that option is out there. I found a single bevel utility knife blade but it seems to be for heavy duty use. Heavy duty blades tend to be dull.

The same people have a ton of specialty blades so might be worth contacting.

Hu

Single bevel blades:
https://www.razorbladeco.com/61-0021...ade-100-blades

ShootingArts 09-15-2019 11:04 AM

Sorry, short answer seems to be no
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevoka (Post 6477549)
Is the article available online to read?


I can't find it right now. I had posted it a few places, wood turning sites. I'm still digging.

Hu

evergruven 09-15-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieBme (Post 6477418)
Was it an elkmaster, and did he use a lathe to do the trimming or a razor etc.?

a lathe was used and multiple blades were also used to trip the tip
just couldn't get it flush
so..flush?
bad tip, it sounds like

(if you couldn't tell)
I don't have a lot of experience with tips
I got a new cue recently that came with a tip
made of what appears to be compressed paper
it actually played fine for me
til it started to mushroom
there was no going back
time to change

will try a proper elkmaster next and report back
thanks all for the replies..learning here

Tom1234 09-15-2019 12:24 PM

From my experience, you should press an Elkmaster tip first. I usually press for a couple of days. I have also found that moistening the tip before trimming to size also helps. Best of luck. I just use a Triangle tip and still get the feel and sound of a soft tip.

Nick B 09-15-2019 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom1234 (Post 6477653)
From my experience, you should press an Elkmaster tip first. I usually press for a couple of days. I have also found that moistening the tip before trimming to size also helps. Best of luck. I just use a Triangle tip and still get the feel and sound of a soft tip.

When I used to go old school I had a setup that pressed 4 at a time in a vice with the tops in a cone shape approaching a dime (I would leave under compression for 2 days or longer). I would say that 1 in 4 would just blow up. Another 25% would crack or not look right. Only 25-30% of all tips were worth putting on. Mind you these are unscientific numbers from cheap Elk Masters. Your results may vary. At minimum if I didn't have any pressed around I would put on a flat surface and knock the softness out of them with a hammer and the sand the bottoms.

Elk Masters will also soak up the glue. This is generally not a problem because you should never play a tip down that far....any tip. Especially with a soft LD type ferule.

lakeman77 09-15-2019 01:04 PM

If cut with a lathe, I have found they often expand, and as said above, if cut with a exacto knife they tend not to expand in my experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW2J_0fFyqA&t=258s


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