APA 8-ball: SL5 > SL6 ?

There was a discussion on it here:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=174998

The obvious way to become a skill level 6 from a 5 is to get better. How to get better then becomes the question. Make sure that you have excellent fundamentals. A qualified instructor would be beneficial in putting you on the right path or correcting any flaws that you currently have in the fundamental department. There are several excellent DVD's and books that cover proper fundamentals. I like the Phil Cappelle books - Play your best pool is very good.

After checking your fundamentals, then use a systematic approach to practice. Work on areas that you are weak such as shotmaking, cueball control, breaking, etc. This is were certain drills may be beneficial. As you work on different parts of your game then it improves as a whole.

Look for ways to play better players. Playing better players is an excellent way to improve your game. Find a small weekly tournament that has good players and make it a point to play in it as often as you can.

Good luck!

For my money: Nothing beats getting hooked up with a good instructor. They will watch you play and identify the areas needing work. They can then suggest drills to work on these same areas of weakness.

With regard to how you would fare against a SL5: Look at the APA requirements for a 5 to beat a 6 or vice versa. THAT will give you a good idea of what the APA expects the results to be when the two meet.

If getting to a SL6 is your goal, play the competition you match up against and win, thats it. It's hard to equate a SL6 to an actual skill, as they are very different across the country imo. For example, I thought going to a SL6 was a cakewalk. I just beat the people I matched up against and have nearly an 80% winning percentage. In that time, I can attest my actual skills are very close to what they were as a 5.

If your striving to be a better player, then yea its about drills practice ect. Play better people then you on a consistent basis or as much as you possibly can. Once you get spanked a few nights without hardly getting out of your chair you start to find ways to get to the table more, then pull a few games then eventually be competitive.

Regarding your last couple questions: My winning percentage is around 80, against 5's this session I was 7-1. I don't run out much in 8 ball in league, especially compared to on my home table. I think I play quite a few safeties, hard to quantify though what is "alot" and "not alot" as each game scenario is different.

Blackball75 said:

Thanks Justin, but that thread was about getting to SL7. I understand there's quite a gulf between SL6 and SL7. And having read that thread, aspiring to become a 7 doesn't sound like a good idea really...

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Well, ... I meant to point you to the replies that address the formula that the APA uses. Basically, a 5 averages 3-4 innings per game while a 6 averages 2-3 innings.

I love the response Russ gave ... I liked it so much, I have it listed in my signature as my first quote :thumbup:


.... My advice... stay a "5" but learn to play like a 7.... the SL rating is all about the innings recorded.

One thing to avoid is trying to be any certain rating.

Its getting better that will create the rating. Don't force it. Its easy to raise your SL in the APA but not get much better especially from a 5 to a 6.

Many 6s are just bad 5s. They move up due to lack of control of mathces and games. They try to run out and do so but rarely get all the way out. The the opponet gets an open table. Before you know it the match is a low inning extravaganza of WHAT NOT TO DO PLAYING 8 BALL.

Learn to control the match with proper safety play and the moving of balls into position. Understand how you can change a table where your "behind" to even or ahead before your opponnet gets his chance to run out on you.

Here are three things that I think will help get you better and increase your level while winning..

1- learn to play tighter safes taking away the easier kicking angles. (with the slop counts rules this is important and is something that better players do).. get the cueball closer to the obstacle and on the proper side.

2- Dont leave your trouble balls until last. Sound easy but you CANT continue a run if you dont see a good chance of getting to the trouble early. You will win more and remain more in control by stopping or not starting a run and positioning balls, breaking out trouble or creating issues for your opponet.

3- Patterns.. most APA run outs are going to be about 5 balls or so. 2 drills
to try .. rack 10 ball and break but then play the solids out with or without BIH. Plan your pattern and practice getting out.
Just throw 5 or 6 balls up and the 8 and take BIH. Plan your out and options. See if where you get into trouble and how often you have to adjust.

Good luck

A win ratio of a SL6 to SL5 really should not have any meaning since with the handicap system each player has the chance of winning.


To improve you need to improve period.

You need to be able to run out on a open table. Play good safes when needed.
Be able to make contact with kicks when a safe was played against you or do something to hinder the opponents runout if you give them BIH. Play smart and sometimes take the 2 way shots.

Just study the game and keep improving and don't worry about it. Like the old saying goes don't wish for something because you may get it.

Blackball75 said:

Thanks Dardusm, that sounds like good advice. Especially the part on getting good fundamentals.

Are there any particular drills you use and can strongly recommend?

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There are several resources out there for drills. Phil Cappelle has a how to practice book. Just do some searching on this site and there will be many ideas. If you have the chance and resources, invest in a lesson with a qualified instructor. BCA will have list certified instructors on their website. Set the foundation and then work on developing your game. Hope this helps.

Blackball75...where are you located? I might be able to recommend a good qualified instructor to make sure you are on the right path.

Steve

As pointed out by more than one poster, a good instructor can help you significantly.

But there are things you can do without one. Working on your weaknesses is very important, especially the ones that come up all the time. When you watch yourself and try to note your weaknesses, you may not see everything. For example, you may note that you lost a game because you missed a long cut down the rail, and forget that the reason you had a long cut was because you over hit the ball on the previous shot.

Ask your friends to help you out. When you are playing, have each of them note every mistake you make on a piece of paper. You'll want to bring paper and pens for this purpose. You may even want to bring some table layout diagrams with grids to make it easy for them. I think Dr Dave has some on his site.

Different people will see different things, so the more who do this the better. Look for patterns, that is, what mistakes are you making with frequency?

Now that you have something to practice, you must do the hard work to do the drills to hone these dull skills into sharp tools.

Good luck.

You are missing the whole point of the APA......haven't you ever read any posts on here before????

You are supposed to play like a 6, but sandbag to a 4

I won't repeat what has been said.....lots of good advice already.....IMHO, to be a 6, especially if you haven't played at that level before, you need to put in at least 4 days a week, 2 hours per session or actual playing time....you do that, read a little, watch a little, and focus....you can easily get there....

Oh, and play a lot of defense....6's play defense, 7's run out

several posts here I agree with. #1...get an instructor. #2...don't try to achieve any rank but strive to play each shot well. #3...was that 6's play defense and 7's run out.
I think the first two will help in getting better, the 3rd tells you when you are there. The two things I suggest is to find every one you can who is better than you and play them as often as possible and the other is to play tournaments. I have found they bring out the best in my game and have helped me get better.

good luck in your quest

If you're serious get an instructor, but I know a lot of people hear that advice but aren't willing to make the time and financial commitment. You can get there on your own with dvds and the forum and such. It just takes a LOT longer.

With that in mind, I hope this helps. I wrote it a while ago trying to explain how I jumped from kind of weak intermediate level to a sort of good level (which is a very vague way of saying things, but let's just say how I went from a 5 to 6 to 7+)

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Some very common bad habits I had to learn to break:

1. Stop 'englishing' in cuts with sidespin. Some people love to just undercut every ball and use outside english to throw it in. Others do the opposite and use inside. Some players absolutely cannot make a rail cut without low outside english, if they had to make it with center ball or inside they're helpless. Learn to make a ball with no english and then use the correct english to position the cueball, seldom will you use english just to help you sink a ball.

On the same track, if you find you can only make a certain ball by rolling it in or slamming it in, try your hardest to learn to make it at all speeds. Some players feel like you have to power long shots for example, and even though speed will help prevent a shot from rolling off, roll off is really only a concern at waaaay too slow speeds, at least on my local tables.

2. Stop using 'tricks' and 'body english' to move the cueball. Don't snap downward or jab at your draw strokes, don't twist the stick sideways on shots that need sidespin, don't start your stroke aiming at one spot and then move up or down or sideways mid-stroke to correct it (which a lot of people do subconsciously).

3. Don't be lazy with your leaves... pick a spot beforehand on every ball, don't just fall into patterns and figure "any angle is fine, it's an easy shot". Don't assume "the odds of getting totally straight here are slim, I should be ok"... make SURE you're not straight. Pick a particular leave area (really an exact leave 'spot') and try to put the cue ball there. Do this on every shot, and do it before you get down to shoot.

4. Don't fall prey to wishful thinking. This is a huge problem and ties in with 3 (anyway it was a big problem for me). Don't try to 'hold' a ball when you can sense it'll be very tricky... if a cut is steep and you'll be forced to send the cueball across the table, then bite the bullet and do it, don't just try to shoot extra soft and baby the OB in and hope you can get the leave. If you can see you're too straight to move the cueball the way you want, even after cheating the pocket, you must consider playing it another pocket, banking, going railfirst, or playing safe... don't just ram the ball extra hard and pray it works out, because it won't.

Other examples of wishful thinking -

...You can see an object ball just baaarely can NOT pass another ball, but you talk yourself into thinking it can. Or you can just see enough of a ball to hit it (but not to make it) but you convince yourself you can make it.

...You know you ought to check to see if a ball can pass in a tight situation, but you're too lazy to walk around the table and make sure, and you just shoot as if it definitely goes.

...You know you'll be in trouble if you leave the cueball parked on the rail, but you can't make yourself use the added force or spin or whatever that's needed to prevent it

...You can see a cut is too steep to send the cueball into a particular area but you try anyway (like the cueball is definitely going uptable when you're making a sharp cut along the short rail... but you try to hold it on your side of the table)

...you can see a certain ball is really important for getting a breakout or falling into a tight position, but you shoot it 'early' anyway without using it the way you wanted because it's the easiest shot and you're scared of missing the other available shots.

... you know that playing a very very sharp cut in the side is nearly impossible, and it'd be better to play such a shot in the corner (or to bank it) but you try anyway.

5. KISS - don't automatically play every ball in the nearest pocket, if it means you need to move the cueball a lot more to get position on that shot.

Once you understand english and have decent fundamentals, thinking and work is what separates you from other players. Try very hard to play every shot correctly even if it means taking more time, or making the shot harder, or taking a more difficult option, etc.

Also, be ready to go backwards before you can go forward. If the correct way to play a shot is with inside english to get position... but you only know how to make it with outside english, use the correct (inside) english even if it means missing something you are sure you could have made with the wrong english. In the short run you may miss more and lose more but in the long run you'll get stronger and eventually master making the cut with any english, and will start winning again.

a couple of things that helped others

So much good advice here already but here is a couple.............

Find what works for you. We are all different in how we learn adn what aour issues with the game are. Someone said find your weaknesses and work on them.

I suggest filming yourself when youre actually trying to play aganst someone. Dont just film yourself banging balls it isnt the same.

Watch it to see if you short stroking, jumping up, shooting too fast, standing off side etc. Work on those things.

A way to work on these things is to exxagerate everything while practicing!!

Dont shoot until youve taken so many practice strokes.

Make an effort to follow through your shots more than you normally would without pushing the shot

Dont get up from the shot until the ball has hit the bottom of the poket.

Avoid using english whenever possible, you can make the cueball dance by cheating pockets and the firmness of the hit. Once you can get this down, start bringing in english shots.

Dont shoot a shot unless you have an exact spot chosen on the table for the cueball to land and always try to get the ball to land within 4 inches of that spot until you can most times.

Understand the term being on the right side of the ball.....................make sure that you realize how different the out becomes when you are on the right side of the ball versus the wrong side.

Learn deflection - understand what happens when the balls strike against one another and where they go and why. You may need an instructor for this or do a lot of studying and practicing.

NEVER shoot a shot without feeling confident its the best shot available. If it isnt, stand up and reassess.
Safeties are important so sometimes, thats your only option. In order to play safe you have to see them and think defensive........that often takes a lot of time and practice with someone that understands how to do it.

Theres so much more but these are things that have helped me in the beginning and others.

Good luck and like someone else said, dont focus on the number you want to be, focus on getting better and improving your skills and understanding of the game. If you do that, the numbers will be where you want them to be.

Blackball75...I will be in your area a week from Monday (Memorial Day). If you're interested, we can get together for a lesson.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Blackball75 said:

Hi Guys,

It's my goal to get to SL6 by Xmas.

Anyone got any views on:

1) what skills and/or performance are needed to reach SL6

2) how to get there (e.g. drills, instruction, amount of practice necessary, DVDs, books, etc.)

If you are a SL6, how often are you running out from the break? And playing safeties? What is your win ratio against SL5s?

Thanks!

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The list you put together from all the different advice from the forum members is very good. Just be sure that the people who are watching/analyzing your game are qualified to tell you what is right and wrong. There are alot of people out there who are good, and there are twice as many hackers just wanting to throw their 2 cents in. Just learn to seperate good advice from bad advice. It is usually pretty easy in my opinion to tell who is qualified to give me advice by watching them play. You can usually tell a good player by the way they move, bridge, and stroke the cueball during match play. When I joined the APA, I went from a SL3 to a SL6 in 9 months, and then to a SL7 a year later. All I can say, is that you have to be able to see a table more as an opportunity to run out, rather than play safe, whenever possible. Playing the correct shot to open up clusters is key, and once you begin to runout, you must execute, otherwise you are removing all your balls, and leaving lots of blockers ( opponents balls) for your opponent to hook you behind. It takes a ton of practice, but if you like it, it wont seem like work. Give yourself a shot by putting in the time. Also, it helps to watch and play much better players. Good luck, and good shooting!!
-D