2019 AZB Ghost Challenge - Official Thread

highkarate said:

The tables at my normal room have deeper shelves than normal gold crowns in addition to the super tight shimmed pockets. They play magnitudes tougher than a standard diamond. They are the same dimensions as table 1 at hardtimes, which was also done by ernesto dominguez. They are pretty much one pocket tables, and are in constant use for 1 pocket action, but I practice rotation on them and when I get games I try to play on them. I'm pretty used to them now but most people are not, so when somebody new comes in looking to gamble and I play them on the one of the 3 front tables, they are typically pretty rattled by the pocket size :grin-square:

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That table plays tough. If a person can run out on that table, they can run out on any table.

Jeff

Beat the ghost today on my mew 9 foot Diamond table 8-1 in the 9-Ball ghost challenge ball in hand after break.

Payed on my new 9 foot Diamond table with pro cut pockets just like the tables in the US Open 9-Ball tournaments. This was the 2nd time playing on this table and it seems way, way too easy. Prior to that I played on my modified 10 foot Brunswick for 2 years and the most racks I've run out consecutively, withe ball in hand after the break, was 5 racks. Tonight I ran 8 out of 9 racks. It just doesn't seem right for this pro table to be that much easier than my 10 foot Brunswick. After my 8 out of 9 rack run I googled the playing surface of a 9 foot Diamond and it's 50x100 inches, spot on with my table. Was my 1p footer that much harder? Tim Tonjum told me that after the cloth breaks in the pockets will play tougher. I sure hope so because this is way too easy and now I'm regreating not ordering the table with smaller pockets. Anyway, time will tell. Here is the video of my 8 out of 9 rack run.


https://youtu.be/Ofvnv3fae4o

I intended on hitting the rail closer to the side pocket and come behind th 9 ball to double the corner for shape.

Side Pocket said:

I intended on hitting the rail closer to the side pocket and come behind th 9 ball to double the corner for shape.

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What size pockets on the 10’? If they were 4.5 or smaller then I’d say even when the cloth is worn on that new table it will feel easy. At least for a little while longer until it becomes your new norm.

Went back to this random pool hall again to film another ghost session. 9' diamond professional w/ 4.5" pockets, same as last time. Played by my normal rules again (early money ball spots, no balls spotted after scratch on the break). I lost the first 2 sets but I'm not posting the vids because I got frustrated and quit mid-set both times. The ghost can be extremely frustrating when the balls don't cooperate on the break lol.

The first set I won, I got really lucky and kicked a ball in after I hooked myself trying to play tricky shape and avoid a combo. Second set I won I was up 6-0 and ended up dogging a couple balls

I could not, for the life of me, get the balls to rack well and the 9 kept moving towards the corner and spoiling my runouts. Also I just couldn't make balls on the break and kept getting clusters. After losing the first 2 sets because of this, I stopped trying to make balls on the break and just kind of started hitting them medium soft from the edge of the box trying to get a good spread. I feel like my overall win % would increase significantly if I used a magic rack, but I don't have one and honestly the randomness of an old ball set and a wooden rack makes it more challenging and fun.

Here are my wins:

7-3 win
https://youtu.be/trS7i_JtxFU

7-2 win
https://youtu.be/QeB-mAqqwPA

Apologies for the off-center angle but I was working with what I had

highkarate said:

Went back to this random pool hall again to film another ghost session. 9' diamond professional w/ 4.5" pockets, same as last time. Played by my normal rules again (early money ball spots, no balls spotted after scratch on the break). I lost the first 2 sets but I'm not posting the vids because I got frustrated and quit mid-set both times. The ghost can be extremely frustrating when the balls don't cooperate on the break lol.

The first set I won, I got really lucky and kicked a ball in after I hooked myself trying to play tricky shape and avoid a combo. Second set I won I was up 6-0 and ended up dogging a couple balls

I could not, for the life of me, get the balls to rack well and the 9 kept moving towards the corner and spoiling my runouts. Also I just couldn't make balls on the break and kept getting clusters. After losing the first 2 sets because of this, I stopped trying to make balls on the break and just kind of started hitting them medium soft from the edge of the box trying to get a good spread. I feel like my overall win % would increase significantly if I used a magic rack, but I don't have one and honestly the randomness of an old ball set and a wooden rack makes it more challenging and fun.

Here are my wins:

7-3 win
https://youtu.be/trS7i_JtxFU

7-2 win
https://youtu.be/QeB-mAqqwPA

Apologies for the off-center angle but I was working with what I had

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Good shooting.

As for the magic rack vs wooden rack: to me, there isn't a difference as for the spread when considering "patterns". After a person practices the break enough with a wooden rack, they should be able to control where certain balls go, the same as with magic rack as long as the rack is tight.

However, with old balls that "can" change from rack to rack due to some balls being smaller or larger than others. So, yep, in your "random" room situation, it would make a difference, UNTIL you broke enough times with the same rack of balls to figure out which balls where the smaller..

Also, IMO, it's harder to run out when spotting balls off scratches on the break. I HATE when I happen to scratch or jump table on the break and have to spot two or three balls on the spot creating an almost impossible run out for most.

The money going last or early isn't a huge factor either way IMO, since it rarely happens on breaks that are well struck.

Enjoyed the vids,

Jeff

EDIT:

Forgot to mention 10 ball. I stopped playing 9 ball because it wasn't as challenging.

To me, the only challenge in 9 ball ghost is if I play the "pro ghost". The pro ghost is a ***** on all games for me.

If you like 10 ball, do a vid of it. Another thing, in 10 ball if you break well, you won't have to worry about money going on break or combos as often as with 9 ball.

Jeff

jrctherake said:

Good shooting.

As for the magic rack vs wooden rack: to me, there isn't a difference as for the spread when considering "patterns". After a person practices the break enough with a wooden rack, they should be able to control where certain balls go, the same as with magic rack as long as the rack is tight.

However, with old balls that "can" change from rack to rack due to some balls being smaller or larger than others. So, yep, in your "random" room situation, it would make a difference, UNTIL you broke enough times with the same rack of balls to figure out which balls where the smaller..

Also, IMO, it's harder to run out when spotting balls off scratches on the break. I HATE when I happen to scratch or jump table on the break and have to spot two or three balls on the spot creating an almost impossible run out for most.

The money going last or early isn't a huge factor either way IMO, since it rarely happens on breaks that are well struck.

Enjoyed the vids,

Jeff

EDIT:

Forgot to mention 10 ball. I stopped playing 9 ball because it wasn't as challenging.

To me, the only challenge in 9 ball ghost is if I play the "pro ghost". The pro ghost is a ***** on all games for me.

If you like 10 ball, do a vid of it. Another thing, in 10 ball if you break well, you won't have to worry about money going on break or combos as often as with 9 ball.

Jeff

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All good points, but I still think a magic rack would increase almost anybody's runout percentage against the ghost. In my case, I am an admittedly terrible racker, and even with a lot of effort I struggle to give myself consistent racks. So to have a consistent rack with a wired ball means less traffic on the table and you can find a pretty good medium speed where they spread out nice. Not to mention the 9 doesn't float in front of a pocket and screw up an otherwise basic runout.


I definitely think 10-ball is the way to go, but my terrible racking ability really punishes me in 10-ball, so that one I would definitely need a magic rack lol. There's a couple guys I play 10-ball with semi-regularly and the difference in runout when we use a magic rack v. when we don't is astronomical. I'll see if I can borrow one and try the 10-ball ghost.

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.

highkarate said:

All good points, but I still think a magic rack would increase almost anybody's runout percentage against the ghost. In my case, I am an admittedly terrible racker, and even with a lot of effort I struggle to give myself consistent racks. So to have a consistent rack with a wired ball means less traffic on the table and you can find a pretty good medium speed where they spread out nice. Not to mention the 9 doesn't float in front of a pocket and screw up an otherwise basic runout.


I definitely think 10-ball is the way to go, but my terrible racking ability really punishes me in 10-ball, so that one I would definitely need a magic rack lol. There's a couple guys I play 10-ball with semi-regularly and the difference in runout when we use a magic rack v. when we don't is astronomical. I'll see if I can borrow one and try the 10-ball ghost.

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.

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I wasn't really meaning to give advice so much as, I was more or less giving my opinion based on my results with magic rack vs wooden rack, from one type game to another, different conditions and different equipment.

I understand. Most people, unless they spend a lot of quality time practicing their break and racking with a wooden rack, they will as you said, not do as well with a wooden rack.

I will admit, it is harder to learn the 9 ball break with a wooden rack. But, watch a lot of old videos of Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland and other pros before rack templates came out. Sure, they were the elites but, if they could do it often, a strong amateur can do it at least sometimes.

And yes, even after you get your break zoned in with a certain table, balls and conditions, well, a lot of it goes out the window the second you play on different equipment or under different conditions.

Having said that, IMO, it's worth the effort because it will give you more of an idea of what to expect even if it's not 100% accurate. Not to mention, ever so often, you will get lucky and play on same type table and under very similar conditions. At that point, well, you will have an advantage over most everyone you face that's not at least close to shortstop speed because most all shortstop speed and above players will as you know, have a shortstop break to go with their shortstop game.

Yes, I think you would be better served to play 10 ball for several reasons. As you know, the extra ball matters but, it's more the way they spread on the break. Most of the track lines (the 8/4, 7/3.5, 6/3 and the 5/2.5) are blocked making it harder to go up and down table, not to mention, banks are more out to blocked until three or four balls are pocketed. That, IMO, is why a person needs to have a really strong break and be very efficient with cue speed to be a good 10 ball player.

I'm due to have back surgery in December so, for now, my 10 ball break is nothing to brag about. I can still make a ball on break most of the time but, as we know, just making a ball isn't good enough in 10 ball. We have to make a couple balls and see the 1 or it's really hard to get out and I end up having to play safe.

Thing we me is, lol....I never get to play safe. I rarely leave my house so, 90% of my play is against the ghost.

After I recover from surgery and if it's successful this time, I am going to try to make some tournaments.

As of late, the only person I have been able to match up with in action was David Rowell. I just happened to run into him and got lucky enough to play a few sets.

Anyways, yes, get a template and put up some 10 ball sets for people like myself to watch.

I may try to play a set if my back will let me. It won't be pretty but, as they say, "it beats the alternative".

I look forward to your next sets, regardless of what game or rack you use.

Have a good one,

Jeff

iusedtoberich said:

I felt real good tonight, but couldn't get past 2 or 3 racks on the ghost. Kept dogging the 7 8 or 9. I feel drained after a few sets of the ghost. It takes super concentration. I never feel relaxed while playing seriously. Players like Rodney Morris just look so relaxed at the table, like they are not even trying.

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I have those days more often than not.

Oh, me and back issues aren't strangers either.

You are 10000% correct. Racking/breaking are the hardest parts of pool when you have back problems. In ghost races, back issues compound throughout the race making us play below our true speeds causing us to not do as well in the long run.

I keep meaning to try a ghost race before my next back surgery.....

We'll see.

Jeff

Missed such an easy shot but ran 9 out of 10 racks. Here is the video, hope you enjoy! 9-Ball BIH after break. 9 foot Diamond pro cut pockets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgfUqGcyxWA&feature=share

Side Pocket said:

Missed such an easy shot but ran 9 out of 10 racks. Here is the video, hope you enjoy! 9-Ball BIH after break. 9 foot Diamond pro cut pockets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgfUqGcyxWA&feature=share

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Good shooting but:

I believe, like myself and some others, you get bored of 9 ball BIH ghost and move on to:

9 ball on spot or 10 ball.

After our games get to a certain level, some games are IMO, a waste of time.

Again, good shooting but, I had rather see you challenged....much better IMO.

Jeff

jrctherake said:

Good shooting but:

I believe, like myself and some others, you get bored of 9 ball BIH ghost and move on to:

9 ball on spot or 10 ball.

After our games get to a certain level, some games are IMO, a waste of time.

Again, good shooting but, I had rather see you challenged....much better IMO.

Jeff

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I've been playin a lot of 14-1 and 8-Ball no BIH. Just trying to beat the ghost 7-0 in 9-Ball. I'll play some 10-Ball today and beat the ghost and also see if I can run a 70 + in 14-1.

Side Pocket said:

I've been playin a lot of 14-1 and 8-Ball no BIH. Just trying to beat the ghost 7-0 in 9-Ball. I'll play some 10-Ball today and beat the ghost and also see if I can run a 70 + in 14-1.

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I understand. When you are in dead punch, I don't see you having any problems beating the 9 ball ghost with BIH while keeping the ghost at ~zero.

I've rarely kept the ghost to zero,.regardless of length of race length but, I have held the ghost to zero a few times in past in short races to ~7. In longer races...lol..the ghost gets very strong, regardless of the game but, especially in 10 ball or 9 ball without BIH.

I've got an appointment with back surgeon soon. I'm hoping they can relieve some of my pain. Maybe I will be able to actually bend over the ball and play instead of getting down on ball and jumping up ASAP due to pain.

Any who, like others, I enjoy your videos.

BTW, post some 10 ball and AR videos for me to watch while I'm recovering from back surgery.

P.S... I may load up on pain meds and try to post one last ghost race before surgery.

Again, GREAT shooting!

Jeff

I’ve yet to goose egg that 9-ball ghost. I’ve gotten close a few times though.

I hadn’t played any sets against the ghost in months up until about a week ago and started trying the no BIH 10-ball Ghost again...lots of frustration there. Most sets aren’t even close but I do it to work on controlling the cb and 1 ball. Maybe I’ll get him one of these days when I’m in stroke if I can get a couple of good rolls along the way.

peppersauce said:

I’ve yet to goose egg that 9-ball ghost. I’ve gotten close a few times though.

I hadn’t played any sets against the ghost in months up until about a week ago and started trying the no BIH 10-ball Ghost again...lots of frustration there. Most sets aren’t even close but I do it to work on controlling the cb and 1 ball. Maybe I’ll get him one of these days when I’m in stroke if I can get a couple of good rolls along the way.

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You eventually fade the ghost in a short race if you put enough time into it.

When healthy, like you, I like to play the pro 10 ball ghost for the "real world" simulation of game play.

I like to break and then practice pushing or shooting a safe if I dont have a good look at the 1 ball and then take the ghosts shot at 1 ball and then rerack. IMO, that's the very best way to spend "free play" time, seond only to AR for people that tend to play rotation type games.

I feel your pain. The pro ghost is a PITA for most everyone.

Jeff

I played the Justin Bergman 10-ball ghost last night. It’s like playing the pro ghost, but you only get to break if you run out. :lol: I was nervous and lost 10-0 but it was good practice. I might post the set up here later for you guys to check out if you get bored.

About these ghost races...someone randomly asked Justin last night if he ever plays the ghost. He said, “Sometimes. Skylar and I gave the ghost 21 going to 25 and beat it twice that way.”

There’s levels to this stuff....:thud: