Splitting The Difference Aiming System

BC21 said:

The more you watch this guy, the more you'll realize that he is using a couple of basic quarter aim points on the OB, then applying left or right english to thin or thicken the angle up as needed. It's a good way to develop a feel for spinning balls in.

He's using 3 aim points. 1/4 ball just happens to be one of the three. It's center ball, 1/4 ball, and edge. After that it's edge to edge.

As Spider suggests, you have to experiment with it to figure out the limitations for using a center to center alignment, then do the same for using a center to edge alignment.

And a center to 1/4 ball alignment.

Then experiment with varying degrees of english, or keep the english consistent and experiment with varying bridge distances.

He never discusses bridge distance and I've never messed with it for over 10 years. Keeping English consistent is the way to go except on center to center alignments with fairly small cut angles to prevent an overcut. The pivot is to a specific spot which produces more than sufficient spin for pretty much all shots. If you go beyond for more spin, it will affect accuracy.

Then once you get it working from close range, you'll need to experiment with varying distances between the balls and between the ob and the pocket.

It's not a tedious process. It's very easy and quite apparent.

It seems like a good tool to use on certain shots where you need a good tool, but too many variables at play to use it consistently on every shot from all over the table, unless you devote a few thousand hours of practice.

Not true. Not true at all. It's absolutely deadly, easy to see and align with only 3 aim points, and spin the ball at the same time with accuracy. It's without a doubt the FASTEST method of anything I know because of it's simplicity for visualization to the aim points.

Again, I should know after 10 years of work and using it.

Still, just experimenting around with it for a little while can help you develop a great understanding of how english affects cut angles.

Experimenting with it to learn English for use on another system doesn't make sense to me. Just use the damn 3 Line aiming system! If you want to use another aiming system, learn how to apply English with IT.

Here's the same thing he's doing, minus the last-second swipe of english. I'm use BHE..... Fine-tuning aim with english

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BC21 said:

The thing is, for the 5 ball that I shoot in the video, it is guesswork. I don't practice it for months or years to get proficient at it, which is why I say it's a feel shot.

It might be a feel shot for you but not necessarily for someone who has the system down pat. It's just another shot that you quickly see in the arsenal with the same pivot.

At that exact distance my tip will be pointing to a certain place on the OB, might even be exactly where you say it will be. But common sense dictates that it'll be pointing to a different place on the OB if I change the distance between the CB and OB,

True. It could change for both the aim point and pivot. So what?

or my bridge distance.

Why do you keep bringing up bridge distance? How often do you change it? Why? And by how much?

Sometimes the tip will be pointing way outside the edge of the OB if the distance is several feet.

Not if it's a center to center alignment or center to 1/4 alignment with outside pivot. It would be far less if it started with an INSIDE alignment pivoting back to CCB with original Shishkebob.

I agree with your assessment of BHE. A player must really pay attention to where their tip is pointed toward the OB if they expect to be fluent applying english without using the bhe pivot method.

I would think that 10 years of "work and using it" is probably pretty close to a few thousand hours. :wink:

Yeah but those few thousand hours only solidified the exactness of the first 10 hours. It was all repetition after that.

And when players are trying to figure out how their particular shaft deflection affects aiming with english, the same experimental process of paying attention to aim and tip placement is identical to what a player needs to do to learn this system.

The shaft deflection isn't anywhere near as drastic with angled BHE whether preset or swiped as it is with parallel English between a LD shaft and regular one. Whatever deflection there might be is offset more by CB swerve and then throw.

That's not a bad thing, as it's a win win -- something will inevitably be learned whether or not the player decides to stick with the system or move on to something else.

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BC21 said:

No negativity, just an honest opinion.

Honest opinion by you based on limited experience up to this point. But for the most part, and I do mean MOST, an erroneous opinion based on my experience and knowledge.

I'm not trying to tear it apart. In fact, I just a dozen balls using it. Naturally, I have a very good idea which of the 3 ob references to use for each shot.

Do you really want to learn it? Multiply a dozen times 1,000 or so.
That's only 70 racks. 10 racks a day for a week. Just scatter all 15 balls on the table and start shooting until they're gone. Do it 70 times.

It works great on a half table game,

It does work great on a half table game. But it also works great on a FULL table game when you learn how distance affects your choice of the 3 aim lines. Then it works great as well.

if I happen to need english on every shot.

Then original Shiskebob can be used with a slight inside offset at setup pivoting back to CENTER BALL. You do realize you can cue low and hit the CB on the easy side so it doesn't go racing all around the table from the small amount of spin.

Nevertheless, I'm not bashing it.

"Bashing" might be a little strong but I'd say erroneous nitpicking would be more applicable.

I just noticed that it's a really good method for developing a know-how when it comes to applying BHE and how it affects aiming. As far as using it specifically for aiming, it would do better as a teaching aide for applying english than an aide in learning how to aim. I'm talking about the "split the difference", not Shishkabob.

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I don't agree because I've experimented and then used a pivot to the outside just like this when using Shiskebob to work the CB around the table differently and the aiming part is still dead accurate and can be as good an aiming system as anything out there, and most of the time better. With the exception of ONE.

You need more table time which I know you aren't going to do so I guess you'll keep sticking to your guns as they are right now. You're correct on some things and way off base on others.

We need some other guys on here chiming in but they also may not be willing to put the table time into learning it.

Low500 said:

NO PESTS PLEASE....THIS IS FOR SPIDER, NOT YOU.
Mister Spider...let's talk about this shiskabon thing a little.
I threw 15 balls out on the table, ten times in a row. (my table is a torture chamber...if you don't split the pocket the ball hangs there. In fact when I have it recovered with Simonis, I'm going to have the man shim them even tighter to 4 inches from my current 4 1/4..but that is another story)
Yes. I made sure there were no clusters or balls frozen together, but I also made sure there were no 'cripples' hanging in holes. I did not start at any time with cue ball in hand...I just threw it out there too.
I pocketed 150 balls and missed once when I misjudged a 'center to edge' (30degree) hit and played it as a 15.
On all shots,I took my usual CTE perception for the angle in upright stance with the two lines as always. Then I got down into shooting position aiming dead straight at the object ball like video man does with center cue ball and then just slightly rotated my entire body into the shot line. Without tinkering with the back hand or the front hand. The 0, the 15 and the 30 were a lead pipe cinch.
The edge to edge gave me a little visual trouble in being SURE, but I whacked away and those went in also.
The only 'spin' used was high rolling ball and low rolling ball with that old 'drag stroke', by raising and lowering the bridge hand.....no side at all. Not even a trace. And draw and stun.
I've yet to experiment with adding right and left spin. Especially when I seldom need it or use it except when object ball is frozen on rail.
I'm not computing why what I am doing is not the exact same thing as CTE? In fact, it's easier to me...as far as falling into the shot line goes.
Please "rip me to shreds" and explain why this works so simple?
I do not consider myself a world beater...some of those old bums at the Moose Clubs and VFW still outrun me sometimes, even though I have to give them the nuts just about to even get them to bet that beer is wet.:wink:
Thanks.
Lowenstein
:thumbup:

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One Pocket John said:

Training Session #3 (part 2 of 3)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb-NRjATtjI

Gambling for big money with this guy would be a major mistake. Although you could make the money back by publishing and selling a book titled:
"How I Lost Everything I Owned In One Night And My Wife Left Me."

Little Mike makes some very good points concerning PSR in this part.

Yes. He proves the aiming process is a part of the PSR. NOT that the PSR negates any need for aiming.

I thought he was using BHE to apply spin. Not so. Watch his wrist, he is using Tuck and Roll to apply spin.

John

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Low500 said:

Thank you, kind sir.
Now I get the picture of why it's working so easily. (Shooters have no clue as to what a confidence builder this stuff is at the table when in combat for the cash)
I recall when I first starting fooling around with the CTE (which hasn't been that long) that getting it through my head to forget those contact points and fractions was the hardest part of the show. But like 'they' say.....21 days of concentrated effort and something can become a habit.
I see how Mister Houle's 3 line ideas carry over into his various methods of aiming. But when it's all said and done....we're still left with only 0-15-30-45 (and that crazy "paintbrush" 60) to pocket all shots. I like that and I believe it's the REAL POWER of the concept. How one arrives at those angles is another matter.....the simpler the better, in my opinion.
Of course the "pests and the haters" will argue forever about this, but they're dwindling in numbers and are being slowly exposed as nothing but no-shooting loudmouths. Poolrooms have been filled with those types for decades. Such is life around a poolroom.
Thanks again for your efforts and contributions.
P.L.
:thumbup:

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garczar said:

Really?? I stood DIRECTLY behind some of Filipinos at DCC in '07 just to check this. It was obvious that on certain spin shots they were pivoting/tucking/rolling/whatevering to apply english. After seeing this i made it a point to watch for this. On a lot of softer shots they'd use parallel and on firmer/harder shots it was BHE/T&R. Not everybody parallel shifts to spin their ball, not even close.

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One Pocket John said:

I thought he was using BHE to apply spin. Not so. Watch his wrist, he is using Tuck and Roll to apply spin.

John

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BC21 said:

This is not Shishkabob as my friend does it, not even close, as he learned it from Tom Simpson anyway.

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BC21 said:

I'm not all that sure of how he does it. He may have taken Tom's lesson and refined it with his own ideas. That's a common occurrence with these things. All I know that when I asked him how he aimed he said Tom Simpson taught him Shishkabob. I asked all the local players, the best of them, this aiming question while compiling my book. This guy is a great player, not a gambler due to religious beliefs, but a solid player.

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