Lawsuit in china: Brunswick billiards vs. Yalin ??????

Dear TFT,

You started this thread. What exactly did you hear, and who from?

I did a google search on a lawsuit between Brunswick and Yalin and the only hit was this thread!

Ha ha. My money is it’s a made up rumor...

trentfromtoledo said:

Have you seen all the products Yalin sells that look EXACTLY like Brunswick? They been knocking off the castings pockets and leg levelers for years. Not to mention they make and sell tables that look sooooo close to a GC6.

Weird part is that they are still doing business together. I just ordered a GC6 yesterday and no delays were mentioned.

I could see them making a rumor like that if they made pool tables I just asked him for more info to try to confirm it is not a rumor.


TFT

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Right, there have been GC copies since at least the 90's. That's when I personally first saw them. Brunswick knew this forever. For them to have gone into, and maintained for decades, business with the Chinese manufacturers, they must not have cared about it.

Mustardeer said:

I got scammed out of $87000 by a Chinese “supplier” a few years ago. Since then every time I see the word China I get a bad feeling in my stomach.

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Ummm….where was your Revo manufactured?

Asking for a friend.

Hope I didn't cause your stomach to feel bad. :wink:

Maniac

Maniac said:

Ummm….where was your Revo manufactured?

Asking for a friend.

Hope I didn't cause your stomach to feel bad. :wink:

Maniac

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Revo is made in the USA Nice try though

iusedtoberich said:

Revo is made in the USA Nice try though

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I bet the $$$ ends up out-of-country though. I could be wrong...I've been wrong before.

Maniac

Maniac said:

I bet the $$$ ends up out-of-country though. I could be wrong...I've been wrong before.

Maniac

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Predator is a private American company. The profits of their sales (even those from products made in their Chinese contract factories like the 314 series shafts), goes to the shareholders of the private company. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the vast majority of stakeholders of Predator are USA based.

iusedtoberich said:

Predator is a private American company. The profits of their sales (even those from products made in their Chinese contract factories like the 314 series shafts), goes to the shareholders of the private company. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the vast majority of stakeholders of Predator are USA based.

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I agree. Predator Group is based in Jacksonville and they have an office in Hong Kong also. REVO shafts are made in Boston and pretty much all the other cues/shafts are made in the Hamson Int'l/Universal factory in China.

jay helfert said:

Almost all the tools and equipment you can buy at Harbor Freight come from China. Same with goods you buy at discount chains like Ross, Burlingame and TJ Max, all of whom sell knock-off products with name brands on them.

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Jay you are one of my favorite posters on here and I love your books but I will disagree about TJMaxx or Burlington Coat Factory selling knockoff products. There's a huge yard sale here in Central Indiana that actually got busted by the feds because one vendor was selling fake purses so I don't see how these companies could get away with it. I sell a lot of clothes on Ebay and I have never had any issue with hundreds of items sold from these stores other than a pair of Diesel jeans from Burlington that were factory seconds.

If you sell on Amazon they would actually use your receipt from these stores to authenticate your items and it's actually required for you to do so but it's more so that they can know where you purchased anything that sells fast for a lot of profit then they will make a direct deal with the factory to cut you out of the loop. TJMaxx has deals in place with Ralph Lauren where RL specfically produces items to be sold in TJMaxx stores which wouldn't be possible if they sold any potential knockoffs.

I have read Shoe Dog which is also a great book about Nike and that completely makes sense but those shoes aren't sold in those stores. There's a similar store called Gabes which will have some very fishy name brand items that are mysteriously missing the tags and a lot of factory seconds and some potential knockoff items as well.

Drop shipping client my family has known for decades requested a grade of PE ( aka polyethylene aka LLDPE ) . His factory was sourcing it from Houston but the price was too high. I had the great idea of sourcing from China. On paper I was supposed to make 200k+. I reached out to lots of people in China and my mistake #1 was responding to an email I got out of nowhere. These scammers had a great deal of knowledge on LLDPE, we exchanged hundreds of emails, spoke on the phone numerous times, they’ve sent me all the paperwork I had asked for including the stamped CIQ issued by the Chinese government. I hired an independent to go visit their office and do the due diligence since I was too lazy to fly to China ( plus the client desperately needed the product and had a deadline, I was running out of time ). She ( the scammer ) wrote me an angry email along the lines “how can you not trust me?! I’ve been working with you on this project for months and this is how you treat me?!!!”. Mistake #2 I fell for that and actually felt a little bad for disrespecting my Chinese supplier. We signed the contract and I wired 50K to their business account in Rizhao City in Shandong Province. I didn't think they were gonna scam me because we had much bigger orders for them and they knew it, this was a sample order. Instead of delivering 60 tons of LLDPE they shipped sand. Not just any sand but industrial waste salt which cost my client thousands to dispose of legally. My client also paid taxes and local fees on these containers so at the end I lost 87000. Right after I found lots of other victims from many countries who got scammed by the same people. I spent a year trying to get the money back but eventually gave up. My story obviously doesnt mean you cant do biz with China, iphones are made in China. I’m just saying you’ve got to be really careful because they know once they have your money there’s nothing you can do.

trentfromtoledo said:

I do feel bad for you, back in the day it was easy to steal from people who did not know.

First, did you wire transfer someone money that you do not know from business or personally?

YOUR FIRST/ MOST COSTLY MISTAKE AND NO RECOURSE FOR GETTING YOUR MONEY BACK.

EVERYONE: DO NOT WIRE MONEY TO CHINA UNLESS YOU HAVE A BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMPANY!!! This is because there is no way to reverse a wire transfer.

TFT

TFT

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garczar said:

Yalin has been making B'wick stuff for quite a while. IF they are getting sued they must have really gone off the rails. As i said above, my guess would be selling tables labeled as B'wicks and not Yalin. They made/make like 95% of GC5's and 6's. B'wick made(or sourced) the pockets and some of the ball-return parts. A certain %age has to made in the US for legal reasons.

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"Brunswick" or whatever is left of it has been manufacturing pool tables in China for at least 10-15 years now. The only original thing left is the name!

Johnson said:

Jay you are one of my favorite posters on here and I love your books but I will disagree about TJMaxx or Burlington Coat Factory selling knockoff products. There's a huge yard sale here in Central Indiana that actually got busted by the feds because one vendor was selling fake purses so I don't see how these companies could get away with it. I sell a lot of clothes on Ebay and I have never had any issue with hundreds of items sold from these stores other than a pair of Diesel jeans from Burlington that were factory seconds.

If you sell on Amazon they would actually use your receipt from these stores to authenticate your items and it's actually required for you to do so but it's more so that they can know where you purchased anything that sells fast for a lot of profit then they will make a direct deal with the factory to cut you out of the loop. TJMaxx has deals in place with Ralph Lauren where RL specfically produces items to be sold in TJMaxx stores which wouldn't be possible if they sold any potential knockoffs.

I have read Shoe Dog which is also a great book about Nike and that completely makes sense but those shoes aren't sold in those stores. There's a similar store called Gabes which will have some very fishy name brand items that are mysteriously missing the tags and a lot of factory seconds and some potential knockoff items as well.

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I can't provide any evidence other than these goods being sold there have "made in China" tags on them and they are selling for 20-30% what they sell for in the high end stores. Maybe they are "factory seconds." And just maybe the great majority of these brand name products are actually being manufactured in China, perhaps in the same factories. Is that a possibility?

jay helfert said:

"Brunswick" or whatever is left of it has been manufacturing pool tables in China for at least 10-15 years now. The only original thing left is the name!

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The last US-built Gold Crowns were made in 1976 iirc. After that they started farming stuff out to S. America and China. All they are now is assemblers.

jay helfert said:

I can't provide any evidence other than these goods being sold there have "made in China" tags on them and they are selling for 20-30% what they sell for in the high end stores. Maybe they are "factory seconds." And just maybe the great majority of these brand name products are actually being manufactured in China, perhaps in the same factories. Is that a possibility?

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Most clothes these days are made in China low and high end stuff too, countries that I tend to pass on are manufactured in random countries like India or Bangladesh (or even Italy just to make them seem high end) although India has a few exceptions that have brands w a low supply w a high demand.

TJMaxx will have direct deals in place with manufacturers but they also will take items that don't sell from stores like Macys or other dept. stores and then send them to one of their distribution centers (Evansville Indiana has a big one) and cutoff the dept. store tags then add their own tag so it'll ring up on their registers. Every season dept. stores have to empty out their stock as well as TJMaxx too. I have a hunch that Burlington and other companies get some of TJMaxx's leftovers.

You'd be surprised how much overstock stuff gets donated directly to Goodwills, I have gotten hundreds of brand new clothing items from dozens of different name brands and resold them on Ebay.

I have no problem taking any item purchased from TJMaxx and selling it on Ebay or Amazon which could get me permanently banned or sued if they are knockoff items. I've never heard anything differently from any other resellers to make me thing otherwise.

garczar said:

The last US-built Gold Crowns were made in 1976 iirc. After that they started farming stuff out to S. America and China. All they are now is assemblers.

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Is there actually a factory in the US that assembles imported parts, and then ships to the customer or the consumer? I’m guessing everything is boxed at the foreign manufacturer, and not unboxed until it’s in the installers hands at the consumers house.

Does anyone know for sure? Has anyone here visited a Brunswick “factory” in the US in the past 30 years?

iusedtoberich said:

Is there actually a factory in the US that assembles imported parts, and then ships to the customer or the consumer? I’m guessing everything is boxed at the foreign manufacturer, and not unboxed until it’s in the installers hands at the consumers house.

Does anyone know for sure? Has anyone here visited a Brunswick “factory” in the US in the past 30 years?

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They have a large facility in Bristol, Wisc. Tables come in basically as knock-down kits to be assembled. Some parts are US sourced but very few.