I doubt they're made from elk. Elk are a controlled animal as far as harvesting goes. I wouldn't think there would be enough hides available to make very many tips.
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why tip expand upon application?
- Thread starter evergruven
- Start date
my thoughts too
That was my first thoughts too, about a shortage of hides. However elk are in large areas of europe also, I don't know where all. There are also licensed elk farms here in the US and you can buy elk meat on the Net here in the US last I knew. I would think the same places selling meat can sell hides. I don't know what areas of the hide are suitable for Elkmaster tips but I would think one hide would produce hundreds of tips. Also there is some naming confusion. Aren't what we call moose here called elk in europe? A much bigger animal but I have no idea of the qualities of the hide.
My guess is that Tweeten can get enough hides through legitimate channels, even if the hides are elk or moose. Admittedly though, I am just guessing. If most of the hide can be used one hide could make thousands of tips. If only small areas can be used as few as low hundreds may come from each hide.
Hu
That was my first thoughts too, about a shortage of hides. However elk are in large areas of europe also, I don't know where all. There are also licensed elk farms here in the US and you can buy elk meat on the Net here in the US last I knew. I would think the same places selling meat can sell hides. I don't know what areas of the hide are suitable for Elkmaster tips but I would think one hide would produce hundreds of tips. Also there is some naming confusion. Aren't what we call moose here called elk in europe? A much bigger animal but I have no idea of the qualities of the hide.
My guess is that Tweeten can get enough hides through legitimate channels, even if the hides are elk or moose. Admittedly though, I am just guessing. If most of the hide can be used one hide could make thousands of tips. If only small areas can be used as few as low hundreds may come from each hide.
Hu
Maybe yours was still alive
LePro's and Triangles are oak-tanned. Oak tanning yields a harder,tougher leather. EM's are chrome-tanned. Chrome tanning gives a much softer, more pliable product. Chrome tanning also leaves leather a blue color, that's why EM's are blue not because of chalk in them. IIRC all the Tweeten tips use water buffalo hides. UD: i talked to Skip at Tweeten and he affirmed that they use WB hides.
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Hi Hu. What brand, or which type of the exacto knife blades, (or any other tools) do you recommend specifically for changing and shaping tips?
Eddie
utility knife premium blades
Eddie, I use utility knife blades. First thing, I want a quality handle that just holds the blade, it doesn't retract. The quality handles like this are usually six or eight dollars. There may still be slight play when you put a thin blade in it. If there is I snap a blade off flush with the handle to use as a shim. Safety glasses or goggles a must for this, wouldn't want a sliver of metal in an eye. Now on to answering your question, holding the blade is important though. I favor the handle I am talking about here, I will use just a blade before a retractable handle, hate those things!
I tested bi-metal blades and several versions of coated blades, the gold ones. I bought all of the different blades I could find at home depot, lowes, and ace when I researched the article. I found standard duty blades sharper than heavy duty. Premium blades significantly outperformed standard blades, both sharper and staying sharp longer. Bi-metal, gold edged, and solid gold coated blades all seemed equally sharp and fine for installing tips when I just did three tips with each end of the blade.
No doubt if I had tested them until they quit working I would have found a "best" blade but all of the premium blades worked great when I just did six tips with a blade. That was a practice I started with standard blades and still use with premium blades. Blades are too cheap to botch a job with a dull blade. I don't throw these blades away, I have a handful of utility knife handles in the shop. One marked for tips only, the rest scattered where I use them. My shop is in storage mostly in boxes and bins now and by some magic I never find what I am looking for in that storage unit! It is seventy miles away now too, so a bit awkward. The information where to find the blades is working from memory, pretty old memory at that!
I am pretty sure the bi-metal blades came from lowes and were kobalt brand, some of the gold ones came from home depot but they are pretty common everywhere. If you have an ace hardware locally they will order anything in their catalog and get it in less than a week usually. Most people never consider special orders from ace but I get a lot of hard to find stuff that way. It comes on their standard truck so free shipping.
I have never had a problem, never heard of one. However I trust the one piece blades a little more than the bi-metal ones. None of the blades were designed for our use and it would seem the bi-metal blade could delaminate. They are made in three layers, a hard center that will sharpen to a finer edge than two softer outer layers to protect the blade from breaking. As close as I place the support and with the quality of the blades this issue seems to be purely theory.
I use the utility knife blades for their relatively larger size and strength. I find exacto knife blades pricey too, partially because of where I buy specialty blades from. If I remember correctly the cost of utility knife blades was less than a dime a tip even using the premium blades back when I wrote the article. They didn't show any loss of sharpness yet and might last as long as a standard blade after being relegated to rougher work than tips.
To recap:
Heavy duty blades have blunter bevel than standard blades and they are thicker. Noticeably stronger than standard blades. They shine for heavy rough work. The dullest blades when new, and they get even duller fast.
Standard duty blades are sharper than heavy duty blades but can stand much less side force. These blades are OK for tips as long as you use the three tip rule.
Premium blades are noticeably sharper than standard duty blades and they stay sharp longer. When we need clean cuts they are the best choice. Best choice for using as a scraper too which is what we are doing shaping tips. I didn't test strength when a side force was applied to these blades. I would expect the gold blades to be the same toughness as the standard blades as I think they start life the same before extra sharpening and coating. The bi-metal are an unknown to me. The side plates are probably of a softer more flexible metal than the standard blades while the center is definitely more brittle. Net result??
Hu
Eddie, I use utility knife blades. First thing, I want a quality handle that just holds the blade, it doesn't retract. The quality handles like this are usually six or eight dollars. There may still be slight play when you put a thin blade in it. If there is I snap a blade off flush with the handle to use as a shim. Safety glasses or goggles a must for this, wouldn't want a sliver of metal in an eye. Now on to answering your question, holding the blade is important though. I favor the handle I am talking about here, I will use just a blade before a retractable handle, hate those things!
I tested bi-metal blades and several versions of coated blades, the gold ones. I bought all of the different blades I could find at home depot, lowes, and ace when I researched the article. I found standard duty blades sharper than heavy duty. Premium blades significantly outperformed standard blades, both sharper and staying sharp longer. Bi-metal, gold edged, and solid gold coated blades all seemed equally sharp and fine for installing tips when I just did three tips with each end of the blade.
No doubt if I had tested them until they quit working I would have found a "best" blade but all of the premium blades worked great when I just did six tips with a blade. That was a practice I started with standard blades and still use with premium blades. Blades are too cheap to botch a job with a dull blade. I don't throw these blades away, I have a handful of utility knife handles in the shop. One marked for tips only, the rest scattered where I use them. My shop is in storage mostly in boxes and bins now and by some magic I never find what I am looking for in that storage unit! It is seventy miles away now too, so a bit awkward. The information where to find the blades is working from memory, pretty old memory at that!
I am pretty sure the bi-metal blades came from lowes and were kobalt brand, some of the gold ones came from home depot but they are pretty common everywhere. If you have an ace hardware locally they will order anything in their catalog and get it in less than a week usually. Most people never consider special orders from ace but I get a lot of hard to find stuff that way. It comes on their standard truck so free shipping.
I have never had a problem, never heard of one. However I trust the one piece blades a little more than the bi-metal ones. None of the blades were designed for our use and it would seem the bi-metal blade could delaminate. They are made in three layers, a hard center that will sharpen to a finer edge than two softer outer layers to protect the blade from breaking. As close as I place the support and with the quality of the blades this issue seems to be purely theory.
I use the utility knife blades for their relatively larger size and strength. I find exacto knife blades pricey too, partially because of where I buy specialty blades from. If I remember correctly the cost of utility knife blades was less than a dime a tip even using the premium blades back when I wrote the article. They didn't show any loss of sharpness yet and might last as long as a standard blade after being relegated to rougher work than tips.
To recap:
Heavy duty blades have blunter bevel than standard blades and they are thicker. Noticeably stronger than standard blades. They shine for heavy rough work. The dullest blades when new, and they get even duller fast.
Standard duty blades are sharper than heavy duty blades but can stand much less side force. These blades are OK for tips as long as you use the three tip rule.
Premium blades are noticeably sharper than standard duty blades and they stay sharp longer. When we need clean cuts they are the best choice. Best choice for using as a scraper too which is what we are doing shaping tips. I didn't test strength when a side force was applied to these blades. I would expect the gold blades to be the same toughness as the standard blades as I think they start life the same before extra sharpening and coating. The bi-metal are an unknown to me. The side plates are probably of a softer more flexible metal than the standard blades while the center is definitely more brittle. Net result??
Hu
Thanks Hu. I've tried to find something thin and sharp like a one sided razor, but the ones I've found are for the tip trimming tools, and pretty short? The reason I ask, I've done a quite a few tips, but a couple of times I nicked the ferrule.
Eddie
Why I like the handle on the blade.
Eddie,
I doubt there is any honest mechanic that hasn't damaged a ferrule. By putting a cutting tool in your tool holder and running it very close to the tip as a tool rest anything you cut with is a lot easier to tame. Get that tool you are using for a rest within a quarter inch or less of the tip. You can custom make a curved rest to go in your tool holder to really snug up to the tip if you want to. If you don't have a good solid tool rest I would buy or make one.
With the tip close to the steady rest or chuck and the rest you have the blade on very close to the tip it becomes hard to mess up a ferrule. A good handle with zero movement of the cutting tool you are using finishes the package. Like most I have been guilty of just using a utility knife blade too. There isn't much load on it if you have the tool rest close to the tip. Still, good practice to use a handle. Most people using small blades without handles eventually do some fairly nasty damage to their hands.
A good set-up is three-fourths or more of the job. I get all of the flex out of a shaft before I start cutting.
Hu
Eddie,
I doubt there is any honest mechanic that hasn't damaged a ferrule. By putting a cutting tool in your tool holder and running it very close to the tip as a tool rest anything you cut with is a lot easier to tame. Get that tool you are using for a rest within a quarter inch or less of the tip. You can custom make a curved rest to go in your tool holder to really snug up to the tip if you want to. If you don't have a good solid tool rest I would buy or make one.
With the tip close to the steady rest or chuck and the rest you have the blade on very close to the tip it becomes hard to mess up a ferrule. A good handle with zero movement of the cutting tool you are using finishes the package. Like most I have been guilty of just using a utility knife blade too. There isn't much load on it if you have the tool rest close to the tip. Still, good practice to use a handle. Most people using small blades without handles eventually do some fairly nasty damage to their hands.
A good set-up is three-fourths or more of the job. I get all of the flex out of a shaft before I start cutting.
Hu
That looks like a great tool for the job, especially the price.
I use an old Phill Hartsfield fixed blade in A2. Very stable and should last several lifetimes.
But for $7.24, might have to pick one of these up.
This one has a nicer handle and a 4-1/2 star rating.
$12
https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kir...7&pf_rd_r=P3S4QYEPJ8D4MTR1EGKB&qid=1570108070
$12
https://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Kir...7&pf_rd_r=P3S4QYEPJ8D4MTR1EGKB&qid=1570108070
Attachments
Kiridashi is the PERFECT tool for cutting tips...I just picked up a few.
I'm very familiar with Japanese knives in the kitchen and straight razors, I own so many different waterstones and diamond stones so I can re-sharpen at any time (can produce much sharper edges than even a typical 'razor blade').
A traditional Japanese knife is chisel ground; however, the backside is not flat...it is concave---the 'ura' is the only part that touches the stone to remove/refine the burr from honing the bevel side.
Picked up a cheap Kiridashi like above, as well as one with Hitachi shirogami/white #2 steel (extremely fine grained...can hold such a fine/low angle edge). Have another one coming in aogami/blue #2 steel that has a few more alloys to hold an edge a bit longer over the white paper steel.
I'd recommend you pick up a stone--maybe a cheap King 1000/6000 in your case.
Great suggestions....
But it looks like those are large Chef’s Knives.
Where can we order a small knife blue #2 for trimming pool cue tips?
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Pics....most tips mushroom and need to be dressed.
Grab the tip with your fingers, are you able to pull the leather tip with, or with out the leather giving'? bad tips are spongy and will give'. Your tip could be too dried out.
Not sure where you are seeing large chef knives...Kiridashi is a small utility style knife. There are many on Amazon...my $20 in SK-5 steel one works great that I didn't really need the other two nicer ones w/ Hitachi steel. Any of them will do, but choose a carbon over stainless option (unless you find some awesome one in AEB-L / 13c26...which are very fine-grained stainless steels).
If you are left handed, you will be much more limited in your options, as they don't make as many for lefties.
Trying to get a picture attached of my setup...about to smash my laptop because it won't work and keeps failing.
This is exact one in blue #2 that is on its way (although I would suggest the white #2 as its a little easier to sharpen). The cutting edge is only 64mm--compare that to a typical paring knife at 90mm/3.5"--so much smaller and more control.
https://www.amazon.com/Kiridashi-Gr...dashi+blue+#2&qid=1570123124&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Here is my setup with all my blades and tools:
https://imgur.com/KP7Y35i
First couple tries on re-tipping weren't bad, but my biggest issue was accidentally cutting into the tip on an angle (a.k.a. tip side not flush with ferrule)...but a little practice and it is so much more rewarding and convenient than shipping shafts, or driving ~3 hours to Seyberts. Here are my latest results:
https://imgur.com/b9ti6QM
https://imgur.com/KehlE9b
https://imgur.com/KP7Y35i
First couple tries on re-tipping weren't bad, but my biggest issue was accidentally cutting into the tip on an angle (a.k.a. tip side not flush with ferrule)...but a little practice and it is so much more rewarding and convenient than shipping shafts, or driving ~3 hours to Seyberts. Here are my latest results:
https://imgur.com/b9ti6QM
https://imgur.com/KehlE9b
Yep. That'll work! lol