If the explanation is not decipherable to you, you'd be kinda' dumb to try and decipher it wouldn't you?
Why not just leave the explanation to those who can decipher it and don't think like you do?
Isn't democracy wonderful.....
Have a nice day
Why Pivot?
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
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Why not just leave the explanation to those who can decipher it and don't think like you do?
Isn't democracy wonderful.....
Have a nice day
Does this even need to be said? Of course it's what all aiming does, or shots wouldn't go in. (However, I'd say "they all help you get to the shot line" - none of them do it for you.)
So how does pivoting in particular help you?
pj
chgo
I only consciously pivot on one shot consistently. On a thin cut (let's say to the right) I will aim the right edge of my ferrule to the left edge of the OB, then I pivot a half tip to the left.
I don't know why. I practice this shot probably 20x a day and am currently hitting at about a 97-98% success rate. I think it has to do with not having an exact aim point on the OB. It works for me, even if I don't understand why.
For the majority of shots, I use fractions, poology, and ghost ball depending on the shot and where I want whitey to end up.
I don't know why. I practice this shot probably 20x a day and am currently hitting at about a 97-98% success rate. I think it has to do with not having an exact aim point on the OB. It works for me, even if I don't understand why.
For the majority of shots, I use fractions, poology, and ghost ball depending on the shot and where I want whitey to end up.
If the explanation is not decipherable to you, you'd be kinda' dumb to try and decipher it wouldn't you?
Why not just leave the explanation to those who can decipher it and don't think like you do?
Isn't democracy wonderful.....
Have a nice day
If the TWO DVD's and hundreds of videos could be deciphered , there would be no need for a book, wouldn't it ?
In fact, YOU can't even explain the process .
Thanks. Seems like a workable technique for a specific cut angle (thin). I'm also interested in how it helps others find multiple cut angles.
When you aim the edge of your ferrule to the edge of the OB, is your cue pointed through the CB's center?
pj
chgo
Insufferable is another way to explain it.
Patrick, I’m not endorsing the “pivot”. Just pointing out what it accomplishes or what pivot Aimee’s think it accomplishes.
I pivot to compensate for deflection and that's it. Although it is a part of how I aim, it isn't done simply to help me aim. I line up center cue ball dead red to the ghost ball spot. I've learned by rote the pivot I need for the specific amount of spin and speed I'm looking for. I simply apply the proper pivot and execute the stroke. In my brain I'm not actually changing my aiming point, it is still the ghost ball spot. The actual adjustments needed for squirt, swerve and throw are made subconsciously and naturally.
The aiming systems, imo, are a way of trying to explain things that a lot of us have learned to do without a lot of thought into it, but with a butt load of practice. A reverse engineering of sorts to try and speed up the learning curve. I understand the desire to skip the "hit a million balls" routine. I think there is a bit lost in translation with some of these systems. They seem like they are trying to explain "feel". "Feel" is the true art form of pool, it is the medium in which we work with. No matter how many words You use, you can't simply explain to a musician how to be expressive and emotive, that comes from real world experience. Same thing here. At the end of the day whatever system you use will only get you kind of close, the rest will have to be learned by experience.
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The aiming systems, imo, are a way of trying to explain things that a lot of us have learned to do without a lot of thought into it, but with a butt load of practice. A reverse engineering of sorts to try and speed up the learning curve. I understand the desire to skip the "hit a million balls" routine. I think there is a bit lost in translation with some of these systems. They seem like they are trying to explain "feel". "Feel" is the true art form of pool, it is the medium in which we work with. No matter how many words You use, you can't simply explain to a musician how to be expressive and emotive, that comes from real world experience. Same thing here. At the end of the day whatever system you use will only get you kind of close, the rest will have to be learned by experience.
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And I'm not knocking pivoting - just sincerely asking how it helps those who use it. Thanks for your reply.
pj
chgo
Refer again to post #21
Then refer to post #21 again.
Continue to do so for maybe 5 years.
OR...continue to gripe about it.
Have a nice day.
I think that describes the "backhand english" method of compensating for squirt/swerve.
Yup. Of course that doesn't mean aiming systems are useless, just that they're not supernatural. Some players prefer the illusion that their aiming system makes the subconscious part of aiming unnecessary for them.
pj
chgo
Back hand and front hand together. That way the bridge length does not have to match the pivot length.
If something gets a person closer to being able to do something then it is by definition useful. I will never tell anyone that whatever method is getting them to understand any of this is useless, so long as it is giving them actual useable results.
I do think there are a lot of players who are over thinking aiming in the hopes that by analysis alone their games will improve. I also think there are others who are gaining actual useable results by incorporating some of these types of systems into their thought process.
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Right. I do the same, but I don't think of it as "pivoting", just adjusting my aim for squirt/swerve.
My question in this thread is about pivoting as a way to get on the centerball aim line without sidespin (although I'm happy to hear about other uses such as yours).
pj
chgo
Everything in this game really boils down to perception, and we all perceive differently.
I offered up my reason for pivoting merely for posterity, not by any means to debunk any other reason for using a pivot.
I've dabbled a bit with some of these aiming systems, aligning centers and edges and pivots and fractions and so on, as a means to try and understand how different minds approach this game. I admit, and I think this is why a lot of the hamb guys can't relate to these systems of learning, is that I will always be biased by the way I learned. Any attempt will always fall back on using what I already know. That makes an actual scientific attempt to understand very difficult.
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True.
You have to visualize the two balls colliding.
For cue ball control and pocketing .
I came up with some interesting findings back when I was curious about how pivot systems function, like shishkabob, which a friend of mine uses very well. Here is a drawing that shows how using one point of reference on the ob (to get a line from ccb to this reference) and one exact pivot (half tip right of this reference line), produces different cut angles. Notice how most of the balls get cut toward the yellow circles. If the pocket were located at any of the yellow circles then most of these shots would hit the pocket. If not, then a different reference point in the ob would be needed.
Here's a video showing how it works on the table.
https://youtu.be/rilAhGzSH10
Here's a video showing how it works on the table.
https://youtu.be/rilAhGzSH10
I pivot, therefore I am.
I came up with some interesting findings back when I was curious about how pivot systems function, like shishkabob, which a friend of mine uses very well. Here is a drawing that shows how using one point of reference on the ob (to get a line from ccb to this reference) and one exact pivot (half tip right of this reference line), produces different cut angles. Notice how most of the balls get cut toward the yellow circles. If the pocket were located at any of the yellow circles then most of these shots would hit the pocket. If not, then a different reference point in the ob would be needed.
Here's a video showing how it works on the table.
https://youtu.be/rilAhGzSH10
so basically math does govern the aiming systems that have a pivot as part of the steps.
Of course it does. This example shows where object balls track when the same pivot and reference point (where you pivot from) is used with every shot as the distance between cb and ob increase. I thought it was interesting.
Math doesn't "govern" pivot systems - it describes idealized versions of them, as it can with any aiming method.
pj
chgo