Lol. You polygraphed everyone?
Did you vote?
Although clearly July9x is full of crap cause ain't no one ever done that crap. LOL
YOUR highest run outs or other records at Pool?
- Thread starter al-capool
- Start date
Lol. You polygraphed everyone?
Did you vote?
Although clearly July9x is full of crap cause ain't no one ever done that crap. LOL
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I know a guy with a controlled 25mph break, when he is in form. So compared to him, my break sucks. Doesn't mean I'm helpless. With the magic rack, my break is pretty decent, and will get the job done.
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One thing you have to understand, is that these are HIGH run records. Not average runs of players. Quite often, ones high run will be considerably higher than their average runs.
I posted a 12. That is a true run. For me, a once in a lifetime run, but I did do it ONCE. My next highest run was a 10 pack, and a few 9 packs. Now, lets break it down just a little to see how that happens....
First thing you need is the ability and focus to run out when the table is runnable. That is a "given". Then, you need a "friendly" rack and the same person racking them the same everytime. Now, that does not mean pattern racking, but having the one in the same spot on the table each time. Along with the friendly rack, goes a friendly table.
By "friendly", I mean a table and racker that gives a consistent rack that just so happens to have the correct gaps in the correct places. My 12 pack was on one table, and my 9's and 10 were on a different table, but the same table for the 9's and 10. And, those were over a two week period. Played on that table many times before, and many times after, and never had the rack break open like it did for those two weeks. And during those two weeks, while playing a crew of construction workers, the same guy was racking for each of those larger runs.
What I know now, and didn't know then, was that the racker had to be consistently putting gaps in the right places by accident that made it conducive to good spreads and balls dropping on the break.
Also, besides the rack and table, the breaker has to recognize what is working, and be able to repeat it rack after rack.
Now, outside of my highest run, and those magical two weeks, my next highest run is down to a 6 pack. Did that ONCE. After that, a number of 4's and 5's. So, for those high runs people have, it's really just a moment in time when everything came together just right to give a good memory. Nothing more than that really. It's surely not indicative of ones normal play.
How about playing in local tournaments with Ekonomopoulos, Kazakis and Malai sounds to you? Do you think I should change club and move to a better one? Let me know your thoughts...
With all due to respect, Neils, I can never believe that. Especially after watching some of your videos. Not even on a mini pool table. 12 racks in a row??? 12? 9? 8? Even if it's ONCE in a lifetime. Do you guys realize what that means? That you're ALL pros.
No, it does not mean that we are pros. But, it does mean that occasionally, we can play at pro speed on our best days. Big, big, big difference.
And, it doesn't matter if you believe I did it or not. It only matters to me, and I know I did. Like I stated earlier, outside of a good memory, it really means nothing.
Ron Swanson
Banned
Are you suggesting B players should be regularly running 2 and 3 packs?
---->Just plummeted.
I've seen a C player put up a 5 pack on a bar table. A players can go for hours on end without a miss on them, whether those long streches without a miss include strings of racks or not is mostly break dependent. 12 on a barbox is a great run, but not unbelievable even for an amateur.
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Why shouldn't I be truthful, especially since I'm not stating I'm running packs for fun. I'm a B player in Greece and, believe it or not, the general standard of the players here is pretty high overall (not my words, but words of some of the finest players on earth who've come here to play in international tournaments like Feijen, Boyes, Chinahov and many others). I'm a very decent am. player and those pros I've mentioned use me as their practice man quite often because they know I can pose some questions here and there during our match. But hitting 3-4 packs regularly as a B player is out of this world here. Heck, our pros even struggle to reach 5 or 6 in the practice...there's usually a point their run breaks down around the 4th-5th rack. I've never even heard Nikos talking about hitting 12 or 9 racks in a row in practice or even in a match. Which I'm sure he must have but more rarely than often, just like you guys...
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My highest runs are:
8-Ball: 4 Racks in a row
9-Ball: 5 Racks in a row
14/1 - Straight Pool: 51 Balls
One Pocket: 8 balls in a row from the break. That was my first game ever of one pocket. I broke them wide open and made a ball in my pocket and ran 8 balls. I had no idea it was a safety game.
10' Snooker: over 90 Points once. Hit the 70s several times.
3 Cushion: have ran 5 numerous times.
15 Ball Rotation: 3 full 15 ball racks in a row on a bar box.
8-Ball: 4 Racks in a row
9-Ball: 5 Racks in a row
14/1 - Straight Pool: 51 Balls
One Pocket: 8 balls in a row from the break. That was my first game ever of one pocket. I broke them wide open and made a ball in my pocket and ran 8 balls. I had no idea it was a safety game.
10' Snooker: over 90 Points once. Hit the 70s several times.
3 Cushion: have ran 5 numerous times.
15 Ball Rotation: 3 full 15 ball racks in a row on a bar box.
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Not quite sure what my speed would be but here are my records to date:
9 ball: 9 foot table, 2 racks
9 ball: 7 foot Diamond, 3 racks
8 ball: 9 foot table, 3 racks
10 ball: don't really play too often, so just occasional break and runs
14.1: 38 balls on a 9 foot Gold Crown, 44 balls on an 8 foot Olhausen
I've strung six racks against the 9 ball ghost on a 7 foot Diamond, haha
9 ball: 9 foot table, 2 racks
9 ball: 7 foot Diamond, 3 racks
8 ball: 9 foot table, 3 racks
10 ball: don't really play too often, so just occasional break and runs
14.1: 38 balls on a 9 foot Gold Crown, 44 balls on an 8 foot Olhausen
I've strung six racks against the 9 ball ghost on a 7 foot Diamond, haha
Okay, time for the obligatory Dr. Dave reference...
If you guys take a look at this page, you'll find several descriptions of alphabetical player ratings, with quite a bit of variation in their descriptions of each rank, so there's bound to be some difference in what everyone here considers a "B" player.
The point I was getting at before was that there seem to be certain tipping points where you can tell that someone is progressing in their ability as a pool player, so I thought it was interesting that there are very few players with a 4-pack as their high run.
I also think that someone's all-time high run doesn't tell you too much about their ability as a player since it's a combination of skill, luck, and opportunity that produces large packages. Sure, you can probably infer that someone that has strung together 5 racks can play a bit, but without knowing how it happened and what the equipment was like, it could just be a fluke.
Now for some back-of-the-napkin math...
Let's say the average pro breaks and runs 1 out of 4 racks of 9-ball, which seems reasonable based on past tournament statistics. Their chances of stringing together 5 racks beginning with any given rack are (1/4)^5=0.9765625, or about 1 in 1000. Looking at that a different way, it is reasonable to expect to see a 5-pack (or better) from the average pro for every 1000 racks they play.
What if you're not that good and only run racks half as often as the average pro, so 1 out of 8. Your odds of a 5-pack are only (1/8)^5, or 1 in 32,768. In fact, if you run out 1 of every 8 racks, you should only expect a 2-pack once in every 64 racks you play, at least according to the numbers.
Anyone that has a good idea of what their B&R percentage is could do a similar calculation. In reality, I would guess that the actual occurrence of packages is more frequent that these simple statistics suggest because of some of the factors previously mentioned: figuring out the break/rack, the mental/emotional state of the player, etc.
If you guys take a look at this page, you'll find several descriptions of alphabetical player ratings, with quite a bit of variation in their descriptions of each rank, so there's bound to be some difference in what everyone here considers a "B" player.
The point I was getting at before was that there seem to be certain tipping points where you can tell that someone is progressing in their ability as a pool player, so I thought it was interesting that there are very few players with a 4-pack as their high run.
I also think that someone's all-time high run doesn't tell you too much about their ability as a player since it's a combination of skill, luck, and opportunity that produces large packages. Sure, you can probably infer that someone that has strung together 5 racks can play a bit, but without knowing how it happened and what the equipment was like, it could just be a fluke.
Now for some back-of-the-napkin math...
Let's say the average pro breaks and runs 1 out of 4 racks of 9-ball, which seems reasonable based on past tournament statistics. Their chances of stringing together 5 racks beginning with any given rack are (1/4)^5=0.9765625, or about 1 in 1000. Looking at that a different way, it is reasonable to expect to see a 5-pack (or better) from the average pro for every 1000 racks they play.
What if you're not that good and only run racks half as often as the average pro, so 1 out of 8. Your odds of a 5-pack are only (1/8)^5, or 1 in 32,768. In fact, if you run out 1 of every 8 racks, you should only expect a 2-pack once in every 64 racks you play, at least according to the numbers.
Anyone that has a good idea of what their B&R percentage is could do a similar calculation. In reality, I would guess that the actual occurrence of packages is more frequent that these simple statistics suggest because of some of the factors previously mentioned: figuring out the break/rack, the mental/emotional state of the player, etc.
I guess this is a scenario where people who are not able to duplicate the personal records of others, translating into those records becoming impossible to have done.
Sounds like a lot of jealousy or envy to me.
But let's face it.
Not everyone is going to be as fortunate as others in their personal accomplishments on the table.
It's not like running racks is just going to happen because you play well, and just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean that you don't play well in the first place.
And make no doubt about it, packages do happen to middle of the road players. I've seen it lots of times.
Personally, I think most 9 ball packages are a result of 2 thing more than any other.
1st one is "time."
Wasting your life in the pool room for a block of time.
Back in the day, when there was more free time, and the constraints and responsibility of adult life weren't an issue, people in my group, the pool bums who did nothing but hang out in the pool room and play every day, just put in lots of time.
I'm not talking a couple of hours twice a week. No.
I'm talking walk into the pool hall at noon, hang out and play all day, matching up with other pool bums all day long. Leave the pool room at 4am, get some breakfast, go home to sleep, and be back at the room at noon the next day.
And then doing this for YEARS.
I'm sorry, but if you waste your life in such fashion, and you are putting in that type of time, packages are going to happen. Packages are going to happen a lot. Even if you aren't a pro. They will happen.
And if they haven't happened, maybe there is another factor that is preventing it.
All players are not cut from the same cloth.
Some play well, and can't hack pressure.
And some play well and opportunity was never there.
Could be anything.
But the worst thing someone can do is doubt someone because they themselves can't do it. That's just ridiculous, but ironically, all too common.
Anyway, the 2nd thing is that no one goes for it anymore.
Too many people would rather play safe these days cause they lack the spine to go for the harder shot, to keep their run alive.
They won't take the harder cut. They won't fire at the bank. They won't do a power draw shot cause it's too risky, etc etc.
When I 1st started to play, pool was in a post Color of Money boom.
Rooms were opening up left and right.
Lots of people were playing.
There were all sorts of local events to play in, and they were ALL 9ball. Nothing but 9ball far as the eye could see.
On top of that, in my area, you had all the pool bums, congregating at South Philly billiards for the Thursday night tournament, where players like Efren, Busti, would be hanging out before and after each U.S. open, and locals like Jimmy Fusco (when he was playing good enough to win the Sands Regency event) Petey Fusco, Mike LeBron (US Open Champ) would be there, as well as Allen Hopkins (US Open Champ) Bob Maidhof, Don Polo, John "Flakes" Hennigan (the one who raped the pinoy in back pocket at that tournament), and other local high end players popping in every now and then.
The rules of the tournament were simple.
Incoming player gets ball in hand.
You break and don't make a ball, your opponent has ball in hand to start the rack.
If he misses along the way and hangs up the ball in the pocket, you return to the table with ball in hand.
3 fouls you lose, so you leaving the table, you are on a foul. Even though you might get ball in hand upon returning to the table, if the ball is tied up, and you can't pocket a ball, you would be on the next foul. (so 3 fouls did occur, just not in the normal manner)
Pocketing the 9 wins the game.
Anyway
This made for a completely different 9ball mentality. RUN OUT AT ALL COSTS.
And since this was THE local weekly tournament to be at back in the day to us locals, because it had all the names in attendance, and we wanted to try and win a match or the tournament against the names.
That bled into our mentality of how we approached the game. All while we were playing pool every day, being pool bums.
You run out or you lose.
That along with hearing commentaries on old accu stats matches from champions.
"I would want to continue shooting" Buddy Hall
"You might be able to safe your way to victory every now and then, but more often then not, you're going to shoot your way to victory" (or something like that) Mathews/Incardona/DiLiberto??? (I forget)
It was just a different mindset back then.
9ball used to be an explosive, dynamic, momentum type of game.
Seems like the past 20 years have done everything in their power to kill that.
Alternate break formats because guys who couldn't put packages together got all bent out of shape over guys that could.
Premium matches being held on ridiculously tight equipment as a testament to who is a better player, being among THE MOST boring matches to watch cause they are playing safe all the time in situations where players of the past would have gone for it.
The era of putting packages together is over.
Let it die with dignity.
Sounds like a lot of jealousy or envy to me.
But let's face it.
Not everyone is going to be as fortunate as others in their personal accomplishments on the table.
It's not like running racks is just going to happen because you play well, and just because it doesn't happen, doesn't mean that you don't play well in the first place.
And make no doubt about it, packages do happen to middle of the road players. I've seen it lots of times.
Personally, I think most 9 ball packages are a result of 2 thing more than any other.
1st one is "time."
Wasting your life in the pool room for a block of time.
Back in the day, when there was more free time, and the constraints and responsibility of adult life weren't an issue, people in my group, the pool bums who did nothing but hang out in the pool room and play every day, just put in lots of time.
I'm not talking a couple of hours twice a week. No.
I'm talking walk into the pool hall at noon, hang out and play all day, matching up with other pool bums all day long. Leave the pool room at 4am, get some breakfast, go home to sleep, and be back at the room at noon the next day.
And then doing this for YEARS.
I'm sorry, but if you waste your life in such fashion, and you are putting in that type of time, packages are going to happen. Packages are going to happen a lot. Even if you aren't a pro. They will happen.
And if they haven't happened, maybe there is another factor that is preventing it.
All players are not cut from the same cloth.
Some play well, and can't hack pressure.
And some play well and opportunity was never there.
Could be anything.
But the worst thing someone can do is doubt someone because they themselves can't do it. That's just ridiculous, but ironically, all too common.
Anyway, the 2nd thing is that no one goes for it anymore.
Too many people would rather play safe these days cause they lack the spine to go for the harder shot, to keep their run alive.
They won't take the harder cut. They won't fire at the bank. They won't do a power draw shot cause it's too risky, etc etc.
When I 1st started to play, pool was in a post Color of Money boom.
Rooms were opening up left and right.
Lots of people were playing.
There were all sorts of local events to play in, and they were ALL 9ball. Nothing but 9ball far as the eye could see.
On top of that, in my area, you had all the pool bums, congregating at South Philly billiards for the Thursday night tournament, where players like Efren, Busti, would be hanging out before and after each U.S. open, and locals like Jimmy Fusco (when he was playing good enough to win the Sands Regency event) Petey Fusco, Mike LeBron (US Open Champ) would be there, as well as Allen Hopkins (US Open Champ) Bob Maidhof, Don Polo, John "Flakes" Hennigan (the one who raped the pinoy in back pocket at that tournament), and other local high end players popping in every now and then.
The rules of the tournament were simple.
Incoming player gets ball in hand.
You break and don't make a ball, your opponent has ball in hand to start the rack.
If he misses along the way and hangs up the ball in the pocket, you return to the table with ball in hand.
3 fouls you lose, so you leaving the table, you are on a foul. Even though you might get ball in hand upon returning to the table, if the ball is tied up, and you can't pocket a ball, you would be on the next foul. (so 3 fouls did occur, just not in the normal manner)
Pocketing the 9 wins the game.
Anyway
This made for a completely different 9ball mentality. RUN OUT AT ALL COSTS.
And since this was THE local weekly tournament to be at back in the day to us locals, because it had all the names in attendance, and we wanted to try and win a match or the tournament against the names.
That bled into our mentality of how we approached the game. All while we were playing pool every day, being pool bums.
You run out or you lose.
That along with hearing commentaries on old accu stats matches from champions.
"I would want to continue shooting" Buddy Hall
"You might be able to safe your way to victory every now and then, but more often then not, you're going to shoot your way to victory" (or something like that) Mathews/Incardona/DiLiberto??? (I forget)
It was just a different mindset back then.
9ball used to be an explosive, dynamic, momentum type of game.
Seems like the past 20 years have done everything in their power to kill that.
Alternate break formats because guys who couldn't put packages together got all bent out of shape over guys that could.
Premium matches being held on ridiculously tight equipment as a testament to who is a better player, being among THE MOST boring matches to watch cause they are playing safe all the time in situations where players of the past would have gone for it.
The era of putting packages together is over.
Let it die with dignity.
Jealousy? Nope, more like reality. I've been around way too long and with plenty of pros to know that no amateur can hit 9 racks in a row, even if Jesus Christ Himself came down to help him. But I do enjoy your stories!:thumbup:
Angry B player hanging with a bunch of malakas. LOL.
NO WONDER you've never put a package together.