Yet another racking question

Saturated Fats · Jun 16, 2020

So triangle racks have extra room at the back where the racker places his fingers and pushes the balls forward.

When a rack outline has been drawn on the table, I consider any ball inside or touching the outline to be interfering with the rack. But in the absence of an outline, I've seen players sometimes pushing the balls back in the rack rather than forward in order to allow a break ball very near the back of the rack to remain undisturbed.

Have you seen this too? What do you think of the practice?

JusticeNJ · Jun 16, 2020

Saturated Fats said:
So triangle racks have extra room at the back where the racker places his fingers and pushes the balls forward.

When a rack outline has been drawn on the table, I consider any ball inside or touching the outline to be interfering with the rack. But in the absence of an outline, I've seen players sometimes pushing the balls back in the rack rather than forward in order to allow a break ball very near the back of the rack to remain undisturbed.

Have you seen this too? What do you think of the practice?

I haven't seen this. When I play, the rack outline is what you go by, not the actual position of the balls in the stack.

It can be really hard to tell sometimes - like the base of the ball will be out, but the edge of the ball will be in. But once you place the rack down, you'll know if the ball is in or not.

sparkle84 · Jun 16, 2020

What do I think? I think it's ridiculous.
Where do these people come from? Been playing 14.1 for 56 years now and have never seen anyone do that.

mikemosconi · Jun 16, 2020

if there are no lines drawn, well the table should at least have a spot, so one should spot a ball and the other balls form the triangle backwards from that spotted ball. Then the spotted ball can be frozen to the 13 racked balls at the back of the rack on one of the corners. Now the balls are in proper racked position for the break. This should only be done if there is a question as to where the object break ball sits in relation to a 14 ball rack. Normally the rack is placed in a position where the head ball would sit with its base ON the spot.

Saturated Fats · Jun 16, 2020

mikemosconi said:
if there are no lines drawn, well the table should at least have a spot, so one should spot a ball and the other balls form the triangle backwards from that spotted ball. Then the spotted ball can be frozen to the 13 racked balls at the back of the rack on one of the corners. Now the balls are in proper racked position for the break. This should only be done if there is a question as to where the object break ball sits in relation to a 14 ball rack. Normally the rack is placed in a position where the head ball would sit with its base ON the spot.

This accomplishes the same thing: allowing the fourteen balls to be racked even if the break ball would have been disturbed by the triangle rack had racking been done normally. But this method goes even further because it would allow the fourteen balls to be racked regardless of the thickness of the triangle rack.

Bob Jewett · Jun 16, 2020

You need to have the line drawn. You have to judge the ball according to the line. Those are the rules.

If you use a racking method that does not require a triangle or uses a non-standard triangle (Sardo), you should still mark the rack with a more or less standard triangle. I suppose the equipment specs should define "standard".

As far as judging in/out, I have a metal block that is 1.125 inches tall. I put the block inside the rack area and bring it up to the drawn outline by the questionable ball. That makes it pretty easy to determine in/out. It's better to have a thin line or you need to decide what part of the line you are going to use.

Saturated Fats · Jun 16, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
You need to have the line drawn. You have to judge the ball according to the line. Those are the rules.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I play in at least two pool rooms that do not allow marking the cloth. No not even with a tailor's pencil. One of them even has a longstanding 14.1 league. The common practice in these places is to grab the rack and try to lay it on the table in racking position to see if a ball will interfere with racking.

Life would be much easier with the outline drawn and a block as you've described.

Dan Harriman · Jun 17, 2020

Saturated Fats said:
Thanks for pointing that out.

I play in at least two pool rooms that do not allow marking the cloth. No not even with a tailor's pencil. One of them even has a longstanding 14.1 league. The common practice in these places is to grab the rack and try to lay it on the table in racking position to see if a ball will interfere with racking.

Life would be much easier with the outline drawn and a block as you've described.

It's an odd question at this point - ask cornerman bout that.

Bob Jewett · Jun 17, 2020

Saturated Fats said:
Thanks for pointing that out.

I play in at least two pool rooms that do not allow marking the cloth. No not even with a tailor's pencil. One of them even has a longstanding 14.1 league. The common practice in these places is to grab the rack and try to lay it on the table in racking position to see if a ball will interfere with racking.

Life would be much easier with the outline drawn and a block as you've described.

Well, I suppose you could make a shape out of thick paper that is half a triangle cut down the long string. Mark where the spot is. If you need to judge a ball, put down the shape on the needed side with the spot correct and the straight side down the long string. Then you could judge by the edge of the shape.

I suggested a half a rack shape so that you wouldn't have to worry about balls in the other side of the triangle. You could also have a relatively narrow strip the shape of the edge of the triangle but it would be pretty flimsy.

DynoDan · Jun 18, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
Well, I suppose you could make a shape out of thick paper that is half a triangle cut down the long string. Mark where the spot is. If you need to judge a ball, put down the shape on the needed side with the spot correct and the straight side down the long string. Then you could judge by the edge of the shape.

I suggested a half a rack shape so that you wouldn't have to worry about balls in the other side of the triangle. You could also have a relatively narrow strip the shape of the edge of the triangle but it would be pretty flimsy.

This discussion inspired me to check the latest version of the (constantly changing) BCA rulebook re: ‘The inappropriate use of equipment’. I was surprised to discover that it is now apparently legal to place chalk pieces on the rails in order to line up/plan a bank shot, as long as you remove them before you shoot. There once was a time when the player had to rely only on his innate ability to ‘judge’ distances/angles/etc. What next? Protractors? Lasers?
You can lay the triangle on the table (before racking) and let go of it, but not your cue. WHY? I still find it rather puzzling that, with the myriad of possible breakshot positions, anyone would chose to leave the last ball so close to the rack that it’s inclusion was questionable.

Bob Jewett · Jun 18, 2020

DynoDan said:
This discussion inspired me to check the latest version of the (constantly changing) BCA rulebook re: ‘The inappropriate use of equipment’. I was surprised to discover that it is now apparently legal to place chalk pieces on the rails in order to line up/plan a bank shot, as long as you remove them before you shoot. ...

I think the World Standardized Rules (WSR) do not permit that. Under the allowed use of equipment, only chalking the cue is explicitly mentioned for chalk. "Marking the table" is explicitly included in unsportsmanlike conduct fouls but chalk on the rail is not explicitly mentioned. Perhaps it should be.

Which rules are you referring to? The BCAPL (which does not follow the WSR) is different from the BCA (which follows the WSR). The BCAPL is part of CSI.

DynoDan · Jun 19, 2020

Bob Jewett said:
I think the World Standardized Rules (WSR) do not permit that. Under the allowed use of equipment, only chalking the cue is explicitly mentioned for chalk. "Marking the table" is explicitly included in unsportsmanlike conduct fouls but chalk on the rail is not explicitly mentioned. Perhaps it should be.

Which rules are you referring to? The BCAPL (which does not follow the WSR) is different from the BCA (which follows the WSR). The BCAPL is part of CSI.

Billiards: The Official Rules and Record Book/World Standardized Rules 2018, published by BCA.
Glossary: (page 231) Illegal Marking
“If a player...marks the table...by placing a cube of chalk on the rail...he has fouled..if he removes..prior to the shot..no penalty..”

Yet another racking question

Saturated Fats

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JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints

sparkle84

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mikemosconi

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Saturated Fats

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Bob Jewett

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Saturated Fats

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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1

Bob Jewett

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DynoDan

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Bob Jewett

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DynoDan

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