Pool Hustlers, Tell us the Truth
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
Tap tap tap... you GO, Bill. :yeah:
Scott,
I remember both your visit to Aspen and to Co Springs.
That cue was a good design and it was fun to make.
Do you still have it?
As far as the 10 ball, the 5 out seems reasonable as long as you are willing to play push out or try to hit the ball and bet high. Play by the game or 10 ahead.
That is a fair test. That's the way I play the Ghost when I am in Ruidoso and have no one to play.
Let me know. I am at Kolbys most days.
Bill S.
Scott is acting like a hustler
asking for so much weight ,no one in the world could give it to him
Tsk Tsk
scott ,I never knew you were a hustler,but now that I do
i will be on guard
8 to 2 is a lot of weight
Billy better be careful or I might change to betting on scott
my hat is off to Scott
He is displaying the Rule 1 of hustling
ASK FOR THE NUTS
good man
asking for so much weight ,no one in the world could give it to him
Tsk Tsk
scott ,I never knew you were a hustler,but now that I do
i will be on guard
8 to 2 is a lot of weight
Billy better be careful or I might change to betting on scott
my hat is off to Scott
He is displaying the Rule 1 of hustling
ASK FOR THE NUTS
good man
What does "larger than life" mean?
Thank you.
Bill, what is your age now? Are you as good as you ever was? Ruidoso is close to my hometown in Clovis. Used to fly through there on our way to Juarez as teenagers. What for? Don't ask?
I am 77 and my speed is not as good as when I was on the road gambling but is not far behind.
I put in 6 hours or more on a tight Diamond playing Straight Pool and 10 ball.
One pocket is difficult to practice alone so I practice Bank Pool.
My eyes are good now that the Lymphoma is under control for the time being.
I know it will return in Spades. No escape. Till then I will play on.
Bill S.
Thanks, I wish I could meet you but I live in Oregon. I do know you've been a huge cue maker with Joss and on with the CNC machines. I wish you well.
I hustled a girl playing bar box 8 ball and got her number, she paid me back by marrying me.
Ghost ball -> 21 years married.
Ghost ball -> 21 years married.
Plenty of pool players have PHD's if go by what a lot of folks think the acronym stands for....
Piled Higher and Deeper!
Happy Hustling.
Bill, if you're ever near Tulsa stop by Magoos. Someone will give you a game. You cast a large shadow while here. People still talk about your "Tulsa-built" stuff and going to your shop for repairs.
Magoos is a great room. Does Wiilie Coyote still come around?
What about Mike Betts?
Miss Tulsa except for the weather.
Bill S.
Bill i saw Wiley just last week. Asked about "the" cue and he said he keeps it locked up. Sadly, we lost Mike in '07. Complications/infection from an old medical issue flared-up and it got him. Sure liked that guy.
random thoughts
Interesting thread. When I was 19 in the 80's I left my house on the east coat with $80 and a half tank of gas. Got to LA with $13,000 and a full tank. Mostly hitting bar rooms, I would look for bars with single tables close to the bar and lots of people lined up to play. Back then they everyone was playing for at least a beer so it was not hard to get the game changed to $5 a game. I would play straight out full speed running every rack I could. Very seldom would they quit on me, most the time more quarters would line up on the rail and they couldn't wait to get at me. Back then lots of people played and they respected a good player. Though sometimes after winning 10 or 20 games in a row they would cheer when I lost. But it was almost always good natured and I always made friends by the end of the night.
I hit pool rooms as well but I was never a true top flight player so I was careful about who I played. I would play the guy who was there even though I got beat sometimes, but never played the guy they called. Back then there was always a guy they could call. Sometimes in bars or pool halls against a single opponent I would hide my speed, I would just play lots of uncalled safes, miss my shot and leave the guy no shot. So even though I would still beat him he would get lots turns at the table, and would keep coming. I guess you could call that hustling but that was just how the game was played. When you go to Vegas the casino never tells you it is mathematically impossible to win consistently on a slot machine. But you would have to be idiot do be playing it and not know that. Most players do know but just hope they get lucky. If a stranger watches you play than asks you to play for money chances are he knows he can beat you. So crying when you lose or calling the guy a hustler is just foolish, he is money player same as you if you agree to play. He is just better at it then you are if he wins. Deal with it.
I quit pool for like 15 years literately never picked up a cue just got back a few years ago. Nowadays you go into a bar and the players are all league players and they won't play for anything. If their not playing the table just sits there empty. The pool rooms are all closed or empty most of the time. Where have all the fishes gone?
As for the quality of play it is just a numbers game if a 100 people in the world are playing the 10 ten players are not going to be as good as the top ten if there are 100,000 people playing. Back then more people were playing and there were way more solid players than there are now. And the players from the 40's and 50's when everyone hung around pool rooms produced lots more solid players than in my day. Even the fishes could run racks back then.
Money players kept the game going for decades but now the leagues are the ones keeping it going. But it still seems to be dying. What the game needs is some charismatic super stars to revitalize public interest. Like Bird and Magic did for the NBA. Until then I guess we just bang away in empty pool rooms, or smile politely when some league player tells you that you got lucky when you run out on him and won't play again even though you were playing for free. Somewhere Boston Shorty and all the other legendary hustlers of old are rolling over in their graves thankful they left before the politically correct rec players took all the money from the game.
Interesting thread. When I was 19 in the 80's I left my house on the east coat with $80 and a half tank of gas. Got to LA with $13,000 and a full tank. Mostly hitting bar rooms, I would look for bars with single tables close to the bar and lots of people lined up to play. Back then they everyone was playing for at least a beer so it was not hard to get the game changed to $5 a game. I would play straight out full speed running every rack I could. Very seldom would they quit on me, most the time more quarters would line up on the rail and they couldn't wait to get at me. Back then lots of people played and they respected a good player. Though sometimes after winning 10 or 20 games in a row they would cheer when I lost. But it was almost always good natured and I always made friends by the end of the night.
I hit pool rooms as well but I was never a true top flight player so I was careful about who I played. I would play the guy who was there even though I got beat sometimes, but never played the guy they called. Back then there was always a guy they could call. Sometimes in bars or pool halls against a single opponent I would hide my speed, I would just play lots of uncalled safes, miss my shot and leave the guy no shot. So even though I would still beat him he would get lots turns at the table, and would keep coming. I guess you could call that hustling but that was just how the game was played. When you go to Vegas the casino never tells you it is mathematically impossible to win consistently on a slot machine. But you would have to be idiot do be playing it and not know that. Most players do know but just hope they get lucky. If a stranger watches you play than asks you to play for money chances are he knows he can beat you. So crying when you lose or calling the guy a hustler is just foolish, he is money player same as you if you agree to play. He is just better at it then you are if he wins. Deal with it.
I quit pool for like 15 years literately never picked up a cue just got back a few years ago. Nowadays you go into a bar and the players are all league players and they won't play for anything. If their not playing the table just sits there empty. The pool rooms are all closed or empty most of the time. Where have all the fishes gone?
As for the quality of play it is just a numbers game if a 100 people in the world are playing the 10 ten players are not going to be as good as the top ten if there are 100,000 people playing. Back then more people were playing and there were way more solid players than there are now. And the players from the 40's and 50's when everyone hung around pool rooms produced lots more solid players than in my day. Even the fishes could run racks back then.
Money players kept the game going for decades but now the leagues are the ones keeping it going. But it still seems to be dying. What the game needs is some charismatic super stars to revitalize public interest. Like Bird and Magic did for the NBA. Until then I guess we just bang away in empty pool rooms, or smile politely when some league player tells you that you got lucky when you run out on him and won't play again even though you were playing for free. Somewhere Boston Shorty and all the other legendary hustlers of old are rolling over in their graves thankful they left before the politically correct rec players took all the money from the game.
Questions
I read through this whole thread at work. Slow days with Christmas and all.
It was pretty entertaining front to back although it did turn into old guy bashing somehow for a bit lol.
So if no one minds a little hijack this seems a reasonable place:
-If you're spotting someone the 7 in 9 ball say, and you miss on the 8 does that person have to make the 8 then 9 or does the spot just move to the 8?
-I can't remember my other question. Ugh. I'm getting old myself.
I read through this whole thread at work. Slow days with Christmas and all.
It was pretty entertaining front to back although it did turn into old guy bashing somehow for a bit lol.
So if no one minds a little hijack this seems a reasonable place:
-If you're spotting someone the 7 in 9 ball say, and you miss on the 8 does that person have to make the 8 then 9 or does the spot just move to the 8?
-I can't remember my other question. Ugh. I'm getting old myself.
No, once the 7 ( or whatever the #ball spot is ) is gone, the spot is gone. If you're giving ( or getting ) the last 2 or last 3, etc, your spot is *always* on the table. it can't be made on the break by your opponent or made *early* via combination, carom ( billiard ) or in other way being s**t in. Unless of course you're down *to* the last 3 or 2 or whatever. Hope that clears it up. Enjoy the slow xmas day.
Fun read...and I gotta disagree with the average quality of players.
I'd say the average player today is better than ever. Of course , our opinion are based on geography....but I dont think I am wrong.
Some real reports
This is long. Read it like a feature length story or skip it.
Some real reports now. Bill talked about traveling, telling who you were, and playing another big hitter. Nothing hustling about that, a road warrior. Had to respect that, and those that step through the door and tell people they are road players, who wants to play? I remember a story of JoeyA's, UJ Puckett stepped into a hall full of seasoned gamblers and dropped fifteen large on the table. "Any or all of it!" Joey said something along the lines of you could have heard a mouse squeak.
Then there were people like Game who were sliding around under the radar. Back in the seventies and eighties you could make a pretty good living like that. I have seen those challenge tables with quarters stacked up knee deep. When I found one with a half-dozen challenges on it already I knew I was going to tote some cash out. I knew one old bar out in the piney woods that had a ratty nasty old table with rips and stains, probably had some life forms never seen in a lab growing on that cloth. The bet was three dollars, rarely changing, but you could stay in action twenty-four seven on that old table. Often my first stop leaving home with twenty bucks and a tank of gas.
Then we had the real hustlers, the guys that would come in with a fake name and a fake story why they were in town or in the bar. Might go so far as to wear a uniform or stained and dirty work clothes. It wasn't unheard of for me to wash up or shower and then put my work clothes covered with bondo dust or insulation dust back on. Never lied about my name, never lied about working for a living or playing pool but I did go a bit out of my way to not look like a gambler. My only thing was I hate my face dirty. I wash it before going out and often every couple of hours with a paper towel in the bathroom in a long match or session.
One place I have to disagree with Game, today's second level players are much better. There isn't much difference between the best of today and yesterday, but if you get those league players on a table you will find many can play a respectable game of pool. Better personal equipment, the tables are much more consistent and easier. The players are plain smarter. Knowledge was close held long ago. Quality books and video, youtube, the net, the information is everywhere today. One of the most knowledgeable, Joe Villalpando, laid it all on the table for 70 dollars. I bought the video's and couldn't decide whether to be mad or glad. Those videos would have taken years off of my learning curve, here the knowledge was handed to anyone willing to part with seventy dollars! His last package of videos is great too, basically three days of class with him edited and put on DVD.
Those that think you can't make money on the road due to the internet are plain wrong. I watched some straight shooting youngsters take down a room full of gamblers playing a tournament that paid between three and four thousand for first plus a nice calcutta that probably was more than the purse. Three youngsters, one won, one came second or third, one I think didn't cash or might have gotten a little taste well down. These youngsters had young eyes and physiques and an old man's smarts learned from video or a lot of personal coaching. With a room full of gamblers nobody knew who they were or if they knew they kept their mouths shut. The kids did OK on the side, one I noticed made hundreds, I wasn't watching too close. Twenty or thirty gamblers in the room, action was everywhere before the tournament and once a few rounds of the tournament had been played.
Thing is, the road is a hard life for most, even very good players. In lean times you will sleep in your car and eat light and cheap. Today's players say you can't make it on the road. What they mean is you can't sleep in a decent motel every night and eat three meals in a restaurant every day. Well, guess what, you never could!
When a road player stepped into a bar or hall that didn't have a big name regular he knew the odds were better than ten to one that he was the best in the place. However, now and then you bumped into the unknown that played just the ratty table(s) in the place and knew every inch of every table and every ball. Usually you can do little things to rattle the other player's confidence when you have them committed. This player doesn't rattle, he has twenty, thirty, forty, people cheering him on, everyone in the place except you! you could take this player five miles in any direction and beat him like a rented mule but the king in his kingdom is a combination you can't beat. If you realize it early you keep some cash. If you think you can break him down you leave busted and disgusted.
Gamblers remember the good times and forget the bad but few full timers on the road haven't felt the sting of defeat sometimes. A friend went bust in Houston. Fortunately he was on his bike. He walked down the sidewalk until he found a quarter. Stuck the quarter in a newspaper machine and took all the newspapers. Then he stood on a busy corner and hawked the papers. That petty theft gave him enough gas to get back to Louisiana. You won't read much about that side of the road in books!
Hu
This is long. Read it like a feature length story or skip it.
Some real reports now. Bill talked about traveling, telling who you were, and playing another big hitter. Nothing hustling about that, a road warrior. Had to respect that, and those that step through the door and tell people they are road players, who wants to play? I remember a story of JoeyA's, UJ Puckett stepped into a hall full of seasoned gamblers and dropped fifteen large on the table. "Any or all of it!" Joey said something along the lines of you could have heard a mouse squeak.
Then there were people like Game who were sliding around under the radar. Back in the seventies and eighties you could make a pretty good living like that. I have seen those challenge tables with quarters stacked up knee deep. When I found one with a half-dozen challenges on it already I knew I was going to tote some cash out. I knew one old bar out in the piney woods that had a ratty nasty old table with rips and stains, probably had some life forms never seen in a lab growing on that cloth. The bet was three dollars, rarely changing, but you could stay in action twenty-four seven on that old table. Often my first stop leaving home with twenty bucks and a tank of gas.
Then we had the real hustlers, the guys that would come in with a fake name and a fake story why they were in town or in the bar. Might go so far as to wear a uniform or stained and dirty work clothes. It wasn't unheard of for me to wash up or shower and then put my work clothes covered with bondo dust or insulation dust back on. Never lied about my name, never lied about working for a living or playing pool but I did go a bit out of my way to not look like a gambler. My only thing was I hate my face dirty. I wash it before going out and often every couple of hours with a paper towel in the bathroom in a long match or session.
One place I have to disagree with Game, today's second level players are much better. There isn't much difference between the best of today and yesterday, but if you get those league players on a table you will find many can play a respectable game of pool. Better personal equipment, the tables are much more consistent and easier. The players are plain smarter. Knowledge was close held long ago. Quality books and video, youtube, the net, the information is everywhere today. One of the most knowledgeable, Joe Villalpando, laid it all on the table for 70 dollars. I bought the video's and couldn't decide whether to be mad or glad. Those videos would have taken years off of my learning curve, here the knowledge was handed to anyone willing to part with seventy dollars! His last package of videos is great too, basically three days of class with him edited and put on DVD.
Those that think you can't make money on the road due to the internet are plain wrong. I watched some straight shooting youngsters take down a room full of gamblers playing a tournament that paid between three and four thousand for first plus a nice calcutta that probably was more than the purse. Three youngsters, one won, one came second or third, one I think didn't cash or might have gotten a little taste well down. These youngsters had young eyes and physiques and an old man's smarts learned from video or a lot of personal coaching. With a room full of gamblers nobody knew who they were or if they knew they kept their mouths shut. The kids did OK on the side, one I noticed made hundreds, I wasn't watching too close. Twenty or thirty gamblers in the room, action was everywhere before the tournament and once a few rounds of the tournament had been played.
Thing is, the road is a hard life for most, even very good players. In lean times you will sleep in your car and eat light and cheap. Today's players say you can't make it on the road. What they mean is you can't sleep in a decent motel every night and eat three meals in a restaurant every day. Well, guess what, you never could!
When a road player stepped into a bar or hall that didn't have a big name regular he knew the odds were better than ten to one that he was the best in the place. However, now and then you bumped into the unknown that played just the ratty table(s) in the place and knew every inch of every table and every ball. Usually you can do little things to rattle the other player's confidence when you have them committed. This player doesn't rattle, he has twenty, thirty, forty, people cheering him on, everyone in the place except you! you could take this player five miles in any direction and beat him like a rented mule but the king in his kingdom is a combination you can't beat. If you realize it early you keep some cash. If you think you can break him down you leave busted and disgusted.
Gamblers remember the good times and forget the bad but few full timers on the road haven't felt the sting of defeat sometimes. A friend went bust in Houston. Fortunately he was on his bike. He walked down the sidewalk until he found a quarter. Stuck the quarter in a newspaper machine and took all the newspapers. Then he stood on a busy corner and hawked the papers. That petty theft gave him enough gas to get back to Louisiana. You won't read much about that side of the road in books!
Hu
What pool needs if it is to be sucessful is to settle on one game and stick with it.
Just look at Snooker and now Black Ball. Simple games that people can understand.
A game that is easy to watch like 8 Ball with red balls, yellow balls and the Black Ball. Sound Familiar.
Most importantally, A Governing Body that sets standards for cloth, pockets, rules, etc.
Perhaps then it could attract some real sponsors.
Bill S.
Just look at Snooker and now Black Ball. Simple games that people can understand.
A game that is easy to watch like 8 Ball with red balls, yellow balls and the Black Ball. Sound Familiar.
Most importantally, A Governing Body that sets standards for cloth, pockets, rules, etc.
Perhaps then it could attract some real sponsors.
Bill S.