Spf

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Even with a slow backswing, you still have to stop to change direction smoothly. It's all a matter off how long to stop, and how smooth the change of direction. IMO the guy in the video is nuts. MOST snooker players use the double pause. It's actually quite easy to learn, from the right teacher!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfHCP-mmks

this guy actually claims that pause is very difficult to implement and warns that one should be careful before trying to take it into the game. I myself find it problematic to keep it consistent and wonder if it's worth trying to learn it or just having a slow backswing instead.
 
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Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
Technically all strokes have a pause in them...they just range in the length of the pause. I find it helps to have a bit of a pause so I don't jerk my cue forward too quickly, but deliver a more smooth stroke and follow through.

I think there is a significant difference between a pause and a Velocity = 0 in the X direction.

For example, a race car driver obviously at some point is going one direction and at some other point he is turned 180 degrees into the opposite direction on the back straight away. I guarantee that this can happen with no pause, yet there is a point of zero velocity in the X direction.

Freddie <~~~ the "technicality" door was opened
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BfHCP-mmks

this guy actually claims that pause is very difficult to implement and warns that one should be careful before trying to take it into the game. I myself find it problematic to keep it consistent and wonder if it's worth trying to learn it or just having a slow backswing instead.

I'm sure his other teaching is very good. But, he finds it very difficult because he's not quite doing it right. He spends half his time talking about someone else's video not being right, and his is probably no better.

The pause does several things if it is at the back of the stroke. It gives one enough time to properly shift their eyes to the ob; it helps ensure a smooth forward stroke; it allows your mind time to say that "all is set" and to shift over to subconscious and then just let your mind shoot the shot when it is ready to, or to get back up and fix what is wrong with the picture.

It does not have to be a set time of 1,2. Nor should it be. That is why he had so much trouble with it. Instead of properly utilizing the pause, he was just concentrating on how long it was. You should never be worried about how long it is, just on why you are doing it.
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
Interested in people thoughts on adding a pause as suggested by all the SPF instructors. I have started to toy with it - I do feel my stroke is straighter and more accurate.

I see a lot of top level players doing it - SVB, Morra, Landon Shuffett, Alex.

Gerry

I use the pause when I'm in stroke, if I pause when I'm out of stroke I won't cue the ball where I intend on cueing it. It does however promote a good follow through which is bad when you mis-place the tip. Ever see a new player who can't draw the ball but they can make balls? If they mis-place their tip the CB won't react any different. Follow through is a funny thing
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One thing I don't think has come up but is worth a mention is the break shot. The pause on the break can really rocket your break up a level. No, not in terms of speed but in terms of accuracy on the CB. Check out various slow motion clips of SVB's break on YouTube and you can see him pause at the end of the back stroke, rise up then he goes straight through the CB. People tend to see the break as a smash and grab. Hit it hard and hope for a nice roll. The pause helps so much to transfer as much power into the break, so you don't have to lay into the rack so much.
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I tried the pause without ever taking SPF lessons.
I think it's an excellent thing.

I tend to save it for tough shots, long straight ones and such.
It's now just automatic to give that extra time before I swing forward on these.

Arguing whether everyone technically pauses or not is basically for people who enjoy arguing.
It's irrelevant. There is dead time between your final practice stroke and your actual swing.
Use that dead time gather yourself, rehearse the shot mentally, switch your eyes from CB
to OB, and focus on a very straight delivery.

The pause is a GREAT diagnostic tool to make stroke flaws obvious.
When you pause, you will catch yourself trying to steer or jab or dip the tip.
Once you figure out you've been steering (especially on certain shots) you can
work on why you're doing it and how to fix it.
 

pleforowicz

Registered
I'm sure his other teaching is very good. But, he finds it very difficult because he's not quite doing it right. He spends half his time talking about someone else's video not being right, and his is probably no better.

The pause does several things if it is at the back of the stroke. It gives one enough time to properly shift their eyes to the ob; it helps ensure a smooth forward stroke; it allows your mind time to say that "all is set" and to shift over to subconscious and then just let your mind shoot the shot when it is ready to, or to get back up and fix what is wrong with the picture.

It does not have to be a set time of 1,2. Nor should it be. That is why he had so much trouble with it. Instead of properly utilizing the pause, he was just concentrating on how long it was. You should never be worried about how long it is, just on why you are doing it.

Thanks for the explanation of the rear pause. I think I will stick to it as I also have heard from snooker TSF forum posters that there are many benefits deriving from the rear pause, such as: smooth acceleration , focusing eyes on the OB, driving through the ball, better follow through etc..
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chris...Well then you've never seen Buddy shoot. He has a VERY defined pause at the end of the backswing...often 2-3 seconds. Allison and Karen's is about 1 second. Mine is about 2/10's of a second (very brief). The key is not how long the pause on the backswing is...but more about how smooth the transition is, from backswing to forward accerated stroke. BTW, the pause at the CB is at least as important, if not more important, as this is where we consciously/subconsciously "decide" if we're going to strike the CB on the next swing...or not. Almost all really good players pause at the CB...most also pause on the backswing...even if it's brief, like mine. You can't go backwards and then forwards without some kind of stop in between. Well, you can...but you will very likely jerk the cue forward, along with the associated problems of tight grip and involving the shoulder...all of which tend to exaggerate and exacerbate small errors in how and where the tip strikes the CB.

One thing to remember, above all...SPF is about TRAINING. When it's get 'grooved in' or ingrained, the process becomes very smooth...as noted by Scottycoyote. In training we advise the student to deliberately slow everything down, and exaggerate all three stops.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott,

I've seen Buddy shoot plenty of times...thank you.

We've been down this road before. Last time you didn't respond to my final post. For someone that pays so much attention to people's strokes I'm surprised you would think Buddy pauses for as long as you do.

Here's my post to you last time this came up:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3744300&postcount=27

I know that in the big scheme of things this isn't really important (plus it's off topic), but the fact of the matter is - Buddy Hall's backstroke pause is not nearly as long as you think. I bet it's actually under a second, which is nowhere near 3-4 seconds. I would think that would be obvious to just about anybody.

Here's Buddy playing Keith McCready at the 2003 U.S. Open (forwarded ahead to Buddy running out + a real nice kick shot):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHAG8YrXG8#t=22m20s


Well, maybe he had a longer pause back a few years ago some may say. Here's a clip from the 1992 U.S. Open where he's playing Parica:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SfnfsLN4iA&feature=related#t=18m45s

I see the pause and my best guess is it's right around a half a second at the most.

Now back to the thread...
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look, I said often, not every time. I'm not here to argue. We use BH as an example of a longer pause, because that's how he plays. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...but in this particular instance, mine is shared by many others. Sometimes I just don't care to keep posting when someone just doesn't believe something...and that's their prerogative. Also your perspective about stroke timing is skewed. You can only calculate the time lapse, with frame by frame viewing...not with the naked eye. I watched both video examples you posted, and noticed many shots where Buddy paused at least 2 seconds. Very nice noticeable pause at the CB, as well. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree, and let it go.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott,

I've seen Buddy shoot plenty of times...thank you.

We've been down this road before. Last time you didn't respond to my final post. For someone that pays so much attention to people's strokes I'm surprised you would think Buddy pauses for as long as you do.

Here's my post to you last time this came up:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3744300&postcount=27
 
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nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you say so. I guess you're the kind of guy that would tell me that my arm pauses when it changes directions while I'm walking. I don't call that a pause. In all the world, I think it's only pool players that would refer to such a thing as a pause. Oh well.

Anyways, I believe the OP is talking about the pause before he pulls the trigger, not the pause at the end of the back stroke. Maybe he can clear that up for us.

I'm the sort of guy that tries to deal with fact. That's all. You said "technically" it doesn't. I responded "technically" it does. Had you said "technically" it does stop but for all practical purposes, many people stroke where there is no perceptible pause, I would have agreed with you. Frankly, it's rather unimportant and not worth arguing over, I wish I would have ignored it at this point. :smile:
 

predator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO the guy in the video is nuts. MOST snooker players use the double pause. It's actually quite easy to learn, from the right teacher!


I think the guy was not properly understood. He said he had trouble implementing it after 20 years of playing competitively without one (although from his other videos I notice that he actually does have a small pause at the back and shoots quite smooth). That's understandable.
If you read specific TSF snooker forum, you'd know that there are plenty of snooker players who have lots of problems with pause at the back. Forget about professional players that you see on TV. Amateur weekend club snooker players play nothing like that. Not even close. I think the teachings of that guy are geared more towards club players who struggle to get a 30 break.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think if they learned to double pause like the pro players do (like we teach, and like Pidge does), they'd get past those 30 breaks in a hurry! JMO :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Amateur weekend club snooker players play nothing like that. Not even close. I think the teachings of that guy are geared more towards club players who struggle to get a 30 break.
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
Interested in people thoughts on adding a pause as suggested by all the SPF instructors. I have started to toy with it - I do feel my stroke is straighter and more accurate.

I see a lot of top level players doing it - SVB, Morra, Landon Shuffett, Alex.

Gerry

Hi Gerry

Maybe this will help. Right out of a student handbook:

“It’s not how long you pause but how well you perform your transition”
Randy Goettlicher, P.B.I.A Master Instructor & member of the SPF Family. Dallas, Tx.

"PAUSE means TRANSFER (or change of direction & energy). At the end of the Back Stroke, control is transferred from one group of muscles to another. The Triceps are used for the Back Stroke and the Biceps are used for the Forward Stroke. There is also a transfer of momentum (Laws of Motion) when the cue stick has to STOP in order to change direction. We use the label “PAUSE” to help identify & grade how it is applied during our TRAINING routines."
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Gerry

Maybe this will help. Right out of a student handbook:

“It’s not how long you pause but how well you perform your transition”
Randy Goettlicher, P.B.I.A Master Instructor & member of the SPF Family. Dallas, Tx.

"PAUSE means TRANSFER (or change of direction & energy). At the end of the Back Stroke, control is transferred from one group of muscles to another. The Triceps are used for the Back Stroke and the Biceps are used for the Forward Stroke. There is also a transfer of momentum (Laws of Motion) when the cue stick has to STOP in order to change direction. We use the label “PAUSE” to help identify & grade how it is applied during our TRAINING routines."

Tap, Tap, Tap.

John
 

RBC

Deceased
Hi Gerry

Maybe this will help. Right out of a student handbook:

“It’s not how long you pause but how well you perform your transition”
Randy Goettlicher, P.B.I.A Master Instructor & member of the SPF Family. Dallas, Tx.

"PAUSE means TRANSFER (or change of direction & energy). At the end of the Back Stroke, control is transferred from one group of muscles to another. The Triceps are used for the Back Stroke and the Biceps are used for the Forward Stroke. There is also a transfer of momentum (Laws of Motion) when the cue stick has to STOP in order to change direction. We use the label “PAUSE” to help identify & grade how it is applied during our TRAINING routines."

Hey Randy,

Excellent post!

I've always viewed it as a separation of the back swing to the forward stroke. I want my stroke of the cue ball to be all forward with no "back swing" muscles involved.

You say it much better than I do.

Royce
 
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