Kamui Chalk - MY Review

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Patrick Johnson said:
Coupla things:

1. Even though you need to chalk less with Kamui, you still need to chalk regularly. With Masters chalking before every shot is an easy habit to build into your preshot routine. Do you remember as easily if the time between chalking is a game or more? Or does your first miscue remind you?

Which is why I said I felt that chalking once a game, say before the break, should be plenty in my opinion. And miscues remind people to chalk no matter when they happen. Chalking before every shot does not stop miscues from happening IF the ball is addressed beyond 2.5 tips out. This happens frequently when the player is trying to add a little extra juice for some reason, maybe to spin the ball in or hold the cue ball super short.

2. All the "feelings" about more spin are meaningless. "It seemed like it to me and the two or three people standing around" doesn't qualify as a meaningful test.

No, feelings have meaning. Also regarding the P2 testimony I meant that the visitors to my shop, all good players, also TRIED the cue and verified my own experience that it allowed -somehow- for more spin to be applied. Feelings are the precursor to understanding. A phenomena has to be observed and felt to begin exploring the reason behind it.

As a player of any decent quality you know yourself and what your typical range is. Taking a draw shot as an example you pretty much know what you are capable of. So if you take the same cue you play with every day and you do your best to draw the ball as far as you can and you focus really intently on your technique then you will come to the point where you know exactly what you are capable of. Then you change cues, tips, or chalk and you see if there is a change in performance. The funny part is that if a person comes on here and says, I changed cues and I cannot draw my ball as far as I used to then no one questions that changing equipment can affect performance negatively. But if someone comes on and says I changed cues and now I can draw my ball much farther then people jump on this person as if they uttered pure blasphemy.

All I am saying is that any half decent player, me, you, Lou, plenty of us on this forum are good enough to have a decent grip on our games so that we can trust our actual on-table experiences to make assessments of whether the performance is the same, better or worse. Of course there is certainly some placebo effect there but also real world results. Either the ball consistently draws another half table length or it doesn't.

3. I don't think more spin and less deflection are related.

Interesting review.

pj
chgo[/QUOTE]

I don't know how related that they are. All I know is that I can do some shots using the chalk that I cannot do as easily when I don't use the chalk. WHY that is is unknown to me. I think that there has to be some correlation because if the only variable that has changed IS the chalk then where is the extra spin coming from?

It could just be from extra friction. Holding onto the ball that fraction of second longer could be the difference. I liken it to spinning a globe with a rubber glove on or a cotton glove. Obviously the cotton glove is going to slip off and the globe will not have much rotation. The rubber glove will generate a ton of rotation. So anything grippier than cotton will add more rotation. Anything less grippy than the rubber glove should add less rotation. That's my layman's understanding of friction and spin.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

aaplayer said:
Cue no, but if you pick the chalk we can play for houses.

Since I know it's possible to beat someone without using chalk and without using side spin because I have done it I will do a shot contest with you instead. You get to use your cue and I get to pick your chalk and the shots. All the shots will be spin shots using more than one tip offset.

We can play this for anything you wish to bet. I am speaking of shots like this to be clear.

CueTable Help

I personally do not believe that you would like it using the chalk I give you. However if proven wrong then I will gladly take my expensive lesson and come on this forum to admit I was wrong and soundly beaten.

Blue Hog ridr · Sep 15, 2011

I agree with your statement Mitch. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I have BD, Magic Chalk and a ton of Pre Flag. I like chalking before every shot or second and I have no desire to change that routine.

Where I go to play in the bar, $25 buys you 4 beer with some table change left over so it can't be the price that bugs me. I just doubt that some pasty
lipstick chalk is going to allow me to shoot better than I can right now with the chalk that I currently use. I have enuff things to think about while I am at the table rather than how many balls it has been since I chalked last.

You're going to tell me that altho you can play several racks without chalking, you are not going to chalk your cue when down on the money ball?
Thats just stupid not to. Oooops, I miscued on the 8, I guess I should have chalked.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

softshot said:
more sipn??? are you sure??

tell you what lets put the hype to rest..

you post a vid of you shooting a shot that you believe is only possible with the increased spin of your miracle chalk..

and I will post a vid of me shooting the same shot and chalking with a chunk of drywall..

I say magic chalk is nothing but hype and marketing

No I am not sure. This is why I said it's my feeling that I am getting more spin.

I didn't say that there are any shots that are ONLY possible with this chalk. Please deal with what I actually said and not what you want to believe. I said that SOME of my shots that I like to play are easier with the chalk than with masters in my own personal experience.

Again the only VARIABLE is the chalk so that is what I am basing my observations on. I know my own game. I know my abilities and I know what happens when I try certain spin shots. So using that as a baseline I can easily see if the performance is better, the same, or worse.

Now, you might be hustling me because drywall might actually work as good or better than chalk. It might be chalk for all I know. BUT I will take a shot and do some videos of spin shots as best I can and then you have to post your video of you duplicating them using drywall. I assume that you will cut a chunk of drywall off of a new piece on camera for authenticity right?

Would you like to place a friendly wager on the outcome? Say 10 shots with lots of spin, three tries per shot and the best average wins for $100?

I can have my video up this afternoon? Would you care to post the bet via paypal with someone else just in case you decide not to make a video? I would hate to see my effort wasted. And just thing of how cool it would be for you to "prove" that drywall is better than chalk and especially better than $25 chalk.

If I win I will donate the money to the BEF or some other worthy cause in pool. There is always someone on here who needs a little extra cash.

Bet?

Blue Hog ridr · Sep 15, 2011

There is always someone on here who needs a little extra cash.

Yep, like me. But no matter what argument you can produce for Kablooi chalk it all comes down to one thing, its a novelty and not much more than that, a 25 buck novelty. I have blown scads of money on pool related Doo Dads and Thingamajigs so I know what it feels like to have smoke blown up my butt.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Blue Hog ridr said:
I agree with your statement Mitch. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

I have BD, Magic Chalk and a ton of Pre Flag. I like chalking before every shot or second and I have no desire to change that routine.

Where I go to play in the bar, $25 buys you 4 beer with some table change left over so it can't be the price that bugs me. I just doubt that some pasty
lipstick chalk is going to allow me to shoot better than I can right now with the chalk that I currently use. I have enuff things to think about while I am at the table rather than how many balls it has been since I chalked last.

You're going to tell me that altho you can play several racks without chalking, you are not going to chalk your cue when down on the money ball?
Thats just stupid not to. Oooops, I miscued on the 8, I guess I should have chalked.

Well the great thing about it is that you don't HAVE to change. No one does. It's not a do or die proposition. What you do in your game is your choice. If the chalk is truly an improvement then it is but no one is twisting your arm to use it. Same thing with low deflection shafts. They do work I have seen it in action on the machine and they work. But not everyone chooses to use them and still high level pool gets played.

The other night I got my ass handed to me by a guy shooting with a Fury cue that's all black with Fury inlaid in crystals. Guy played lights out. I would trade all the "best" equipment in the world for his demeanor at the table and calm assured control.

The thing is though that it's FUN to play around with this stuff. I am nerd when it comes to how things are made and why they work. So something like this fascinates me personally.

I GUARANTEE you that if I had found the chalk to be lacking then I would have said so. I really can't find a downside to it yet. But I don't HAVE to use it. I can play just as bad without it.

Regarding chalking before critical shots....of course. I chose NOT to chalk at all during the set the other night just to see what would happen. If I had been gambling then I would not have gone that long without chalking and I certainly would have chalked up for any critical shots requiring a lot of spin.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

Blue Hog ridr said:
Yep, like me. But no matter what argument you can produce for Kablooi chalk it all comes down to one thing, its a novelty and not much more than that, a 25 buck novelty. I have blown scads of money on pool related Doo Dads and Thingamajigs so I know what it feels like to have smoke blown up my butt.

Please don't go there. I put up a review based on my real experience. I could really give a **** less whether they sell millions or go bankrupt tomorrow. I have ZERO affiliation with Kamui with the exception that the owner and I have talked briefly a few times and I respect his outlook on product creation. I am not at all a fan of the USA salesman as there are some large outstanding obligations to my friends that he has to clear up and iirc you also don't like him. Please don't mix your feelings about him or Kamui into my review to suggest that I am shilling for them.

GoldCrown · Sep 15, 2011

McChen said:
i think my biggest problem would be getting out of the routine of chalking between shots, it's so ingrained.

There ya go. It's roots. It's part of the PSR.
Thanks for the review JB. I'd like to try it sometime just for fun.

Blue Hog ridr · Sep 15, 2011

I don't know where you got that from John but my last post was obviously a bit of tongue in cheek. I think it was someone else in another post that suggested that you were schilling for them and I believe that was also tongue in cheek.

And you are correct, I don't like the Kamui rep either.

softshot · Sep 15, 2011

JB Cases said:
No I am not sure. This is why I said it's my feeling that I am getting more spin.

I didn't say that there are any shots that are ONLY possible with this chalk.

the chalk either produces more spin than other chalk for a given tip offset OR allows you to hit farther from center.. or it doesn't

I'm in the "it doesn't" camp.

if it somehow spins the ball more than anything up until now it must make new shots possible that were not possible before now. or it does not spin the ball more.. it's not rocket science

JB Cases said:
Would you like to place a friendly wager on the outcome? Say 10 shots with lots of spin, three tries per shot and the best average wins for $100?

I can have my video up this afternoon?

embarrassing you in front of everyone is all the compensation I need..

the only table I have to work with is a 7' with broken in mercury ultra

probably the most common conditions on the planet you shouldn't have trouble finding one..

lets see your video

stunshotDAVE · Sep 15, 2011

kamui "hype"

your review is very articulate and unbiased, however if you follow any world 9 ball events, as most avid players do, i would like to draw your attention to Tony Drago, if have you have had the pleasure of watching him dissect a 9 o 10 ball rack, you must have missed the FACT that he may chalk once or twice in any given rack, while executing astonishing cue ball control in racks that take place in less than 60 seconds and require huge amounts of off center hits that most of us would; a, never attempt, or b, fail miserably if even attempted.

all this is done with twetten or master, 25cent chalk.

how is this possible?

[can of worms about to open!]

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

stunshotDAVE said:
your review is very articulate and unbiased, however if you follow any world 9 ball events, as most avid players do, i would like to draw your attention to Tony Drago, if have you have had the pleasure of watching him dissect a 9 o 10 ball rack, you must have missed the FACT that he may chalk once or twice in any given rack, while executing astonishing cue ball control in racks that take place in less than 60 seconds and require huge amounts of off center hits that most of us would; a, never attempt, or b, fail miserably if even attempted.

all this is done with twetten or master, 25cent chalk.

how is this possible?

[can of worms about to open!]

It's possible because as Chinchilla pointed out people don't REALLY have to chalk every shot.

I play fast as well and don't chalk every shot either when using 'regular' chalk. But I sure feel it when the chalk is not right. I think when the chalk is adhering well then a player knows what frequency of chalking is required.

My rising tide example still holds up even in Tony Drago's case. As great as he plays now using the chalk he uses and the frequency he chalks it's not inconceivable that better chalk would allow him to do more than he already does.

There is no real reason for us to simply accept the status quo and say that chalk has reached it's natural limit of performance with Masters. The fact is that we normal people don't know what's possible because we have not really been exposed to lots of different choices.

Today's materials are so far advanced over the time chalk was invented that it's not even funny. It is possible to take a piece of wood and apply a surface treatment to it that make it anywhere from super slippery to incredibly grippy. When you look at it all you see is wood grain and you wouldn't know what the surface felt like until you touched it.

So imagine, just imagine, that there was a material that added just 5% more friction to the tip-ball interaction. What would that mean for the amount and type of shots that could be played? I don't really know.

But if you consider the history then it's not farfetched to imagine what could be.

Minguad invents the leather tip and just by that a whole new amazing range of shots comes into the game.

Someone invents chalk to put on the leather tip and just by that another level of shots come to the game.

Consider a masse' cue vs. a regular cue. With a masse' cue one can impart tons of spin to the ball. One CAN also do it with a regular cue as well but it is so much more difficult as to be impractical for some shots. So by having a masse' cue one can perform more shots.

This is what I mean. The status quo is impressive enough of course watching Drago and others play incredible pool. But I like to think of where they might be with just incremental increases in performance on the equipment side. And the reason is because I know where they would be if equipment performance were diminished.

Give Tony Drago a K-Mart Ramin cue with the crapola tip and some pioneer chalk and I can GUARANTEE you that his performance will suffer. So if it can get worse by being handicapped with equipment we know it crappy (yet legal for play), then I think it can better with better equipment.

JB Cases · Sep 15, 2011

softshot said:
the chalk either produces more spin than other chalk for a given tip offset OR allows you to hit farther from center.. or it doesn't

I'm in the "it doesn't" camp.

if it somehow spins the ball more than anything up until now it must make new shots possible that were not possible before now. or it does not spin the ball more.. it's not rocket science

embarrassing you in front of everyone is all the compensation I need..

the only table I have to work with is a 7' with broken in mercury ultra

probably the most common conditions on the planet you shouldn't have trouble finding one..

lets see your video

Well then ok, I will hold you to it. I will do a video with ten spin shots and you do the same ten shots with drywall on the tip.

I expect you to show the tip condition and that all previous chalk residue is removed. I will do the same.

Actually the table you have is only common in the USA. The most common conditions where I live are 9ft tables with Simonis-like cloth. I will be using a nine foot table and will tailor the shots to account for your smaller one.

I am not sure how I will be embarrassed. The worst thing that can happen is that you prove to us all that drywall is better than pool chalk. IF that happens then I will simply say good job and that I have learned something.

If not then it's just proof that you are foolish and the debate will continue as to which pool chalk works best, why it works, and what it's worth.

Going to the table now.

D_Lewis · Sep 15, 2011

cuesblues said:
There are 5-possibilities in my opinion:

JB is working for Kamui

JB is a Kamui dealer

JB owns Kamui

Kamui chalk is the ****ing Holy Grail of chalk

Chalk is overrated

Either way I want some.
Like the 5-dollar milk shake in Pulp Fiction

That's a pretty ****ing good milkshake. I don't know if it's worth five dollars but it's pretty ****ing good.

View attachment 195768

4).

Rocket354 said:
This is a great point. I have two chalks: one cube of kamui I use for my playing cue and one cube of blue diamond I use for my break cue and jump cue. I therefore chalk using my BD cube once per game

Ive also found with the Kamui 0.98 that I am doing this with my playing vs break cue. I dont prefer to use the 0.98 for jumping the ball and if I chalk every break, it leaves a bit of a oily residue on my normal break spot.

Blue Hog ridr said:
Yep, like me. But no matter what argument you can produce for Kablooi chalk it all comes down to one thing, its a novelty and not much more than that, a 25 buck novelty. I have blown scads of money on pool related Doo Dads and Thingamajigs so I know what it feels like to have smoke blown up my butt.

Like Ive said various times about the chalk.

Would you pay $25 to not miscue? Yes or no simple answer. With regular chalking and nothing out of the norm, I believe I will NOT miscue with this chalk. I play for enough money that the $25 is well worth the money it saves/gains me in the long run.

The Chinchilla · Sep 15, 2011

D_Lewis said:
4).

Would you pay $25 to not miscue? Yes or no simple answer. With regular chalking and nothing out of the norm, I believe I will NOT miscue with this chalk.

Yes, but even assuming the chalks works as you say, there will come a day when your stroke reaches those same outside parameters on the cb and miscues could be just as likely then with the kamui chalk. You may have more advantage (=more spin), so that is the argument.

Also, people say $25, but that is one piece. Imagine how much you'll spend in 10 years. I'd say spend the money on putting a pool table in your home for that cost.

One last thought, would you pay $100 dollars not to miscue (for one chalk)? $200??

D_Lewis · Sep 15, 2011

The Chinchilla said:
Yes, but even assuming the chalks works as you say, there will come a day when your stroke reaches those same outside parameters on the cb and miscues could be just as likely then with the kamui chalk. You may have more advantage (=more spin), so that is the argument.

Also, people say $25, but that is one piece. Imagine how much you'll spend in 10 years. I'd say spend the money on putting a pool table in your home for that cost.

One last thought, would you pay $100 dollars not to miscue (for one chalk)? $200??

I am a high spin player, I have a softer tip and I put a lot of junk on the cue ball. With this chalk and regular chalking, I will not miscue. I think I have miscued maybe 2-3 times so far witht his chalk, twice was during a session seeing how long it would last and another time my cue hit the rubber on a gold crown and pushed my shaft so far that I almost missed the ball.

If I could pay $2000 to never miscue again, I would do it in a second. As for the Kamui chalk being $25, there are a lot of other things I spend my money on that are well above that in cost yet dont do nearly as much for me as the chalk.

A short list of things that you dont NEED but a lot of people buy.

$50 a dozen golf balls
Premium gas
$300 pairs of shoes
$5 milkshakes

Going out for dinner vs staying in (I am the worst for this, unless its BBQ season)
Expensive cars - Mrs Dan and I have two cars, they are about $20,000 difference in price (MSRP)

The Chinchilla · Sep 15, 2011

D_Lewis said:
I am a high spin player, I have a softer tip and I put a lot of junk on the cue ball. With this chalk and regular chalking, I will not miscue. I think I have miscued maybe 2-3 times so far witht his chalk, twice was during a session seeing how long it would last and another time my cue hit the rubber on a gold crown and pushed my shaft so far that I almost missed the ball.

If I could pay $2000 to never miscue again, I would do it in a second. As for the Kamui chalk being $25, there are a lot of other things I spend my money on that are well above that in cost yet dont do nearly as much for me as the chalk.

A short list of things that you dont NEED but a lot of people buy.

$50 a dozen golf balls
Premium gas
$300 pairs of shoes
$5 milkshakes
Going out for dinner vs staying in (I am the worst for this, unless its BBQ season)
Expensive cars - Mrs Dan and I have two cars, they are about $20,000 difference in price (MSRP)

Yes, all good points. Really all I was saying is that one day, when your brain/arm gets a good feel for this chalk, miscues will then be just as likely, as you will be further out near the edges of the cb now. Especially true since you say you spin a lot.

D_Lewis · Sep 15, 2011

The Chinchilla said:
Yes, all good points. Really all I was saying is that one day, when your brain/arm gets a good feel for this chalk, miscues will then be just as likely, as you will be further out near the edges of the cb now. Especially true since you say you spin a lot.

I could see this being a problem as you pointed out.

But, I also dont have to go as far out using the Kamui chalk.

Some of the shots I have been making have even surprised me how good they were. (Im horrible, for the record)

SplicedPoints · Sep 15, 2011

If a man can and wants to pay 25 a piece, and want to give a review about his love for the product, let him. It's his money and his game. We all know that a 25 dollar chalk won't make your game become that of Efren's or never make you miscue. I don't think anybody's actually stupid enough to believe that.

It seems it's always the same naysayers in all pro-Kamui chalk posts. The ironic thing is that none (or very few) of the naysayers have actually tried the product. This is a review post from someone who has tried the chalk. Comments from people who just like to express their dislike (chalk-envy?) for the product without any real experience are not really needed, especially they've already expressed it multiple times in multiple posts.

Blue Hog ridr · Sep 15, 2011

Chalk envy, now thats a new one.
This weekend if I am not working, I will buy a tube of Chap Stick and apply it
to the tip of my shaft and shoot a few balls.

Kamui Chalk - MY Review

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