Long jacked up draw shots

veilside81 · Oct 15, 2007

Hi everyone, I want to get better on long jacked up draw shots, how do you suggest to practice them?
I'm having nearly no problems on stopping the cue ball.. but when I want to put the draw in I can't pocket it anymore and it seems to me that I'm hitting it with to much power..

this is one of the shots :

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And if anyone can explain me why I am getting the cueball jumping when trying the masse shot to get out of this situations?

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Thanks to everyone for the patience..

Southpaw · Oct 15, 2007

You have to have a great stroke for these shots. The best advice is to stay down and follow through.

Southpaw

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 15, 2007

With all due respect, long jacked-up shots have no practical value. Every single time I've ever encountered such a shot, I practically write off the outcome. Prior to shooting, I say, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (anything you say when you are on an amusement park ride will do)

Being successful requires strong mechanics but even the very best players in the world are going to miss this shot more often than not.

PoolSponge · Oct 15, 2007

First to the long shot, practice staying loose and smooth. Try not to hit it too hard or it jumps and you lose the spin. Lots of smooth follow through. Practice the shot as close to the rail as you can without needing to jack up and get the confidence in how strong you need to stroke to get the right action. Do that 15 times. Now pull the CB back and jack up a small amount, repeat 15 times. Now you are confident and ready to try the full pin shot you described.

Second shot, you are hitting down on the CB and probably pretty firm. That makes it jump. It is a great shot to own. If you are simply try to spin a masse out, stroke smoother not harder. This is a tough shot not to jump.

Just my 2 cents.

PS: although I tend to agree that these shots are not very high percentage, if you can make it usually that can be a match changer and really damage your opponent mentally.

Scott Lee · Oct 15, 2007

Jude Rosenstock said:
With all due respect, long jacked-up shots have no practical value. Every single time I've ever encountered such a shot, I practically write off the outcome. Prior to shooting, I say, "WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!" (anything you say when you are on an amusement park ride will do)

Being successful requires strong mechanics but even the very best players in the world are going to miss this shot more often than not.

Jude is absolutely correct here. If you're in this situation you really screwed up. Most pro players will play safe before taking on a flyer like the first shot (played the way you are asking about). Simple physics dictates that almost ANY player, pro or not, will have a 60-75% probability of making some kind of cueing error in attempting this shot. If you're able to stop the CB and pocket the OB consistently here, you're doing better than most players will.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 15, 2007

PoolSponge said:
PS: although I tend to agree that these shots are not very high percentage, if you can make it usually that can be a match changer and really damage your opponent mentally.

This should never be a determinant. The only thing that should go through your mind when making a decision is whether or not it's the best option you can find. Get into head games and a lot of times, you're going to find out you're the only one playing.

The goal is to win and to be as unemotional about it as possible. I mean, could you imagine if a sports announcer asked Mika Immonen why he decided to go for a really tough shot and his response was, "I decided to take a low risk shot because I thought it would upset my opponent." No, Mika is going to say, "I felt it was my best chance to win." That's it. That's the only thing you should consider.

ez2h8 · Oct 15, 2007

I agree with Scott and PoolSponge about the first shot. The goal is not to get yourself in that situation and if you do, just pocketing the object ball is a feather in your hat. Trying to draw back is very tough. I also agree with Sponge's suggestion for practicing by starting off the rail and working backwards. It's at least a good shot to practice and know but wouldn't get hung up on it by no means.

As for the second shot, I can do this one and I believe I am not jacked up to 45 degree's. I think it's more like 25-30 degree's. It feels like an elevated stroke shot, but by no means does it feel like a masse stroke/stance. To be honest, it's more like my stance/stroke for jumping - over say - half a ball. I also think that the CB comes off the table slightly before hitting the OB but there is so much spin on the CB after contact with the OB, the english takes.

ez

klockdoc · Oct 15, 2007

Good points from everyone. This is an extremely low percentage shot especially if I'm shooting it...

But, One thing I would mention. After your preliminary set-up, look at the cue ball last.

I lower my stance to line up, gradually raise to position, then make sure I hit the point I've chosen to hit the cue ball.

Good Luck

VonRhett · Oct 15, 2007

BINGO! A masse stroke won't quite work here. It's really a stun- or run-stun stroke. I'll hit a few 2nite, but I think I just barely elevate the butt, no where near 45 degrees.
-von

ez2h8 said:
As for the second shot, I can do this one and I believe I am not jacked up to 45 degree's. I think it's more like 25-30 degree's. It feels like an elevated stroke shot, but by no means does it feel like a masse stroke/stance. To be honest, it's more like my stance/stroke for jumping - over say - half a ball. I also think that the CB comes off the table slightly before hitting the OB but there is so much spin on the CB after contact with the OB, the english takes.

ez

Jude Rosenstock · Oct 15, 2007

Seriously, I'm not going to say I have never played either of these shots but you've managed to pick shots that nobody in the world is consistent with.

In regards to the second shot, the bottom line is you have to work within the confines of the game. You cannot jack-up between 30 and 45 degrees and not expect it to jump. It's gonna jump and that has to weigh in to your decision on how to play it. If you're very close (I'm talking inches) to the object ball, playing a masse is very sound. If you're two feet away, it's very risky. I cannot imagine very many scenarios where a risk like that is worth taking other than I'm pummeling my opponent and don't care or I'm getting pummeled and I don't care. If you care, there has to be something else you can do.

Bob Jewett · Oct 15, 2007

veilside81 said:
Hi everyone, I want to get better on long jacked up draw shots, how do you suggest to practice them? .. Thanks to everyone for the patience..

As others have pointed out, there are probably more productive things for you to practice. But if you're set on doing this...

Use progressive practice. Start with an easier version of the shot that you can make 50% of the time. Make the shot harder as you get to better than 50%. A general description of the practice method is available at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1992-12.pdf and a number of other drill examples are in articles listed at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html

veilside81 · Oct 16, 2007

Thanks for all the answers... I asked about this shots because they both happened to me in the last weekly league.

The first long draw shot happened in the semi final, we were tied at 6-6 race to 7, and I was playing a really though guy with which I was supposed to lose but here it is what he left me and what I shot for the victory :

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I just couldn't see any good safety against this guy..

For the other shot it happened earlier than the semifinal and the layout of the table was that I had both long cushions blocked and I needed to go uptable for the 2 but I jumped and scratched... The layout was approximately like this:

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Even here I didn't see another solution to run the table..

predator · Oct 16, 2007

veilside81, great shot #1.
I think shot #2 should have been cushion first. That would bring the cue ball far up the table for the 2 ball, could even end up perfectly. Should you miss, a safety is very probable.

Mike Templeton · Oct 16, 2007

klockdoc said:
Good points from everyone. This is an extremely low percentage shot especially if I'm shooting it...

But, One thing I would mention. After your preliminary set-up, look at the cue ball last.

I lower my stance to line up, gradually raise to position, then make sure I hit the point I've chosen to hit the cue ball.

Good Luck

Klockdoc is correct in that you should look at the cue ball last. If you are like me, it will improve your pocketing percentage at least 50%.

Mike

8ballEinstein · Oct 16, 2007

One of the things that made Keith McCready a freak in his younger days was that he would go for these shots and make them consistently - AND MAKE IT LOOK EASY! I've watched him carefully on these shots and I'm certain he was looking at the object ball last, just like any other shot.

Andrew Manning · Oct 16, 2007

Here's how I'd play 'em. Each diagram has two pages.

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There's no way I'd play either of your shots as diagrammed because I'd be lucky to execute them successfully 1 in 10 tries.

-Andrew

cuetable · Oct 16, 2007

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I believe this is a shot Efren pulled off one time at hardtime billiards. The cue ball was frozen to the rail. He came to the table, shaked his head, jacked up, fired the 7 in and drew the cue ball back to the same spot.

WEEEEEEAH!

I am always curious about the stroke needed. I know I would get another "it's just magic!" if I ask him.

If this shot comes to me in a match, I would aim to cross corner short and avoid the double kiss based on the way it's set up. (see page 2)

thyme3421 · Oct 16, 2007

.

veilside81 said:
Thanks for all the answers... I asked about this shots because they both happened to me in the last weekly league.

The first long draw shot happened in the semi final, we were tied at 6-6 race to 7, and I was playing a really though guy with which I was supposed to lose but here it is what he left me and what I shot for the victory :

CueTable Help

snip ... snip
Even here I didn't see another solution to run the table..

I agree with pretty much everyone else... #1, risky shot... my first thought was Mike Massey would shoot that at a show, not in a game. Congrats on makin' that ball.

#2, the person that said they'd play it at 20-30 degrees... I completely agree with. When I'm doing a jump shot, I hit it at about 45-50 degress... then it leaves the table.
Any time you're hitting down on the CB it's going to bounce, even just a little bit, but the more down you hit, the more it'll bounce. If you're hitting shots like this, you probably already know that.

As far as getting better at shot #2, you could bring the CB and OB closer... less than a chalk apart... hit it a few times... then move the OB farther out.

You couldn't use low left (about 7:30-8 o'clock) english and bring it 3 rails out to the 2?

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Cajun_Pool · Oct 16, 2007

Andrew Manning said:
Here's how I'd play 'em. Each diagram has two pages.

Just curious... why wouldn't you hit the CB with some upper right and send it down table to get on the 2?

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Jude Rosenstock · Oct 16, 2007

Cajun_Pool said:
Just curious... why wouldn't you hit the CB with some upper right and send it down table to get on the 2?

Beause you would follow right into the corner pocket. The whole point of this thread is that you're dead straight.

Long jacked up draw shots

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