Has the Secret to Pool been Cast "In the Shadows???"

RussPrince · Aug 14, 2014

I've been using cast shadows for a few years as reference. It's not really a full system so to speak, but it's definately a good check. Of course it does depend on the lights to some extent, but I've found pretty usable shadows under almost all types of lights (flourescent and bulbs)

If it's applicable (and it surprisingly often is), I will use where the cast shadow intersects the invisible line going through the ball to the pocket. It's a little more reliable towards the rails, but it's just something else to aim at.

Dan White · Aug 14, 2014

The Renfro said:
Playing at the higher levels I would think double and triple checks come into play anytime you are faced with something that is not standard fare..... I use CTE, SEE system, Fractional, Spot on the table, and anything I can think of when I am playing full speed and a ball rolls soemwhere tthat doesn't fit the ROTE system in my head.....

I tend to think it is the other way around. If a high level player does not pretty much automatically know how to aim any shot on the table then he is not a high level player.

I think most people (not talking about complete novices) can learn how to properly aim just about any shot in a matter of weeks. Getting your eyes in the right spot and delivering a straight stroke is the part that may take years to learn.

Pidge · Aug 14, 2014

Dan White said:
I tend to think it is the other way around. If a high level player does not pretty much automatically know how to aim any shot on the table then he is not a high level player.

I think most people (not talking about complete novices) can learn how to properly aim just about any shot in a matter of weeks. Getting your eyes in the right spot and delivering a straight stroke is the part that may take years to learn.

You brought up some really good points. In particular about the eyes. Teaching someone to get their head in the right place is the hardest aspect to teach someone in this game. You just can't see what they're seeing. Add to the matter of having the head in the wrong place, centre cue ball, the shot line and so on are not actually the correct lines and centre's to pocket a ball or hit where you think you are hitting the cue ball. I would put having the head in the wrong position to why people develop crooked strokes over the years. They have to cue across, steer and snake the cue through the delivery process because their eyes are playing tricks on the brain. Get the head in the right position, it makes it easier to develop a straight stroke and then you can start messing with shadows, light spots and other magical methods.

CJ Wiley · Aug 15, 2014

This information can be amazingly beneficial so give it some serious thought.

One of the things I teach is how to raise mental potential in various ways playing pocket billiards. The subconscious is an amazing tool when utilized correctly and can actually be detrimental {in ways} if it's not. I believe it's important to learn ways to maximize our potential, not only in our pool games, also in business, and personal areas of our lives.

Our senses tend to get stronger in one area, when weakened in another. For example, if the lights were to suddenly go out we all instantly have better touch and feel - it's proven that blind people have better hearing (and touch for reading braille) and visa versa. Many people don't "real eyes" that we can intentionally decrease and increase our senses.

We can use this phenomenon to our advantage when we get down on a pool shot. Above the ball we want to be 90% (for example only) visual and only about 10% kinesthetic (feel and touch).....we stay in that mode and concentrate mostly on the object ball until our hand hits the table and our focus shifts to the cue ball.......at this point our visual sense should be deliberately diminished (towards the object ball) so we can raise our sense of touch (and feel) to connect and fully absorb into the shot.

Understanding how this is done is a HUGE advantage because it enables the player to maximize both their visual experience AND their "feel and touch" experience on the same shot by effectively shifting back and forth from one to the other at EXACTLY the vital time, thus synergistically increasing both sense's full potential.

This information can be amazingly beneficial so give it some serious thought....you'll be glad you did and if this process "clicks" you will have a very powerful mental tool in your "pool box" that may also enhance other areas of your life. www.thegameistheteacher.com

buckshotshoey said:
Interesting. Thank you. Going to study this.

Ralph Kramden · Aug 15, 2014

obrien714 said:
I have the new LED light and my shadows are not there like this example. damn hi tech light.

When tables have 3 hanging lights and incandescent bulbs there are shadows.
This could also be called duckie aiming. Pick out a shadow just behind the OB.... :nono: not!

With full length fluorescent bulbs or LED lighting, the shadows are not defined.
.

Dan White · Aug 15, 2014

Pidge said:
You brought up some really good points. In particular about the eyes. Teaching someone to get their head in the right place is the hardest aspect to teach someone in this game. You just can't see what they're seeing. Add to the matter of having the head in the wrong place, centre cue ball, the shot line and so on are not actually the correct lines and centre's to pocket a ball or hit where you think you are hitting the cue ball. I would put having the head in the wrong position to why people develop crooked strokes over the years. They have to cue across, steer and snake the cue through the delivery process because their eyes are playing tricks on the brain. Get the head in the right position, it makes it easier to develop a straight stroke and then you can start messing with shadows, light spots and other magical methods.

Absolutely. I had a crooked stroke for my entire pool playing history. It was just A LITTLE crooked and never knew it because my alignment "looked" perfect. Now I have a perfectly straight stroke because my eyes are in the correct place, and my brain does not feel a need to wobble through the stroke to pocket a ball. I could shoot accurately before, but not when I had to really hit a ball hard. The other barrier to getting the head in the right spot is that it won't necessarily feel like the right spot at first. IMO, "dominant eye" should not necessarily be over the ball.

One Pocket John · Aug 15, 2014

CJ Wiley said:
One of the things I teach is how to raise mental potential in various ways playing pocket billiards. The subconscious is an amazing tool when utilized correctly and can actually be detrimental {in ways} if it's not. I believe it's important to learn ways to maximize our potential, not only in our pool games, also in business, and personal areas of our lives.

Our senses tend to get stronger in one area, when weakened in another. For example, if the lights were to suddenly go out we all instantly have better touch and feel - it's proven that blind people have better hearing (and touch for reading braille) and visa versa. Many people don't "real eyes" that we can intentionally decrease and increase our senses.

We can use this phenomenon to our advantage when we get down on a pool shot. Above the ball we want to be 90% (for example only) visual and only about 10% kinesthetic (feel and touch).....we stay in that mode and concentrate mostly on the object ball until our hand hits the table and our focus shifts to the cue ball.......at this point our visual sense should be deliberately diminished (towards the object ball) so we can raise our sense of touch (and feel) to connect and fully absorb into the shot.

Understanding how this is done is a HUGE advantage because it enables the player to maximize both their visual experience AND their "feel and touch" experience on the same shot by effectively shifting back and forth from one to the other at EXACTLY the vital time, thus synergistically increasing both sense's full potential.

This information can be amazingly beneficial so give it some serious thought....you'll be glad you did and if this process "clicks" you will have a very powerful mental tool in your "pool box" that may also enhance other areas of your life. www.thegameistheteacher.com

I couldn't agree more with this statement. You have to feel the QB and the shot with your grip hand.
What I find during practice is that I shoot shots with my grip hand and not the tip of the cue. It s like the tip of my cue is on my grip hand. If that makes any sense.

One way you can experience this for yourself (without a cue in your hand or QB) is to line up a cut shot on an OB as you normally would, bend over to shoot the shot and imagine playing the QB one or two rail position off the OB to the next shot. What you will notice is that your feel/touch has become very sensitive to the shot. That's what your looking for on every shot.

Thanks CJ

John

AtLarge · Aug 15, 2014

Pidge said:
You brought up some really good points. In particular about the eyes. Teaching someone to get their head in the right place is the hardest aspect to teach someone in this game. You just can't see what they're seeing. Add to the matter of having the head in the wrong place, centre cue ball, the shot line and so on are not actually the correct lines and centre's to pocket a ball or hit where you think you are hitting the cue ball. I would put having the head in the wrong position to why people develop crooked strokes over the years. ...

Dan White said:
Absolutely. I had a crooked stroke for my entire pool playing history. It was just A LITTLE crooked and never knew it because my alignment "looked" perfect. Now I have a perfectly straight stroke because my eyes are in the correct place, and my brain does not feel a need to wobble through the stroke to pocket a ball. I could shoot accurately before, but not when I had to really hit a ball hard. The other barrier to getting the head in the right spot is that it won't necessarily feel like the right spot at first. IMO, "dominant eye" should not necessarily be over the ball.

Pidge and Dan White -- Would each of you explain what you do to put the head/eyes in the "right place"?

CJ Wiley · Aug 17, 2014

the light doesn't even have to be directly over the table which is amazing to me

The shadow is simply a relative point used to make the connection between the two balls and the light doesn't even have to be directly over the table. I'm not sure why this works, it just does, and I haven't found a table yet that negates it's effectiveness.

Shane uses different parts of his ferrule (the inside ones of course

) which is very precise, especially on long shots where the object ball is near the center of the table.

Petros Andrikop said:
Great post, everything depends on table lights, all this is known for years now, along with aiming to OB light reflection when 3 light system is used, as long as it's placed right over the table.
Shadows can be used more in carom games, where aiming goals "restrict" to ball number 2.
In Pool, mainly when one wants to play safe off a fine thin cut.
Petros

Ralph Kramden · Aug 18, 2014

CJ Wiley said:
Did you know that many great players use the SHADOW of the Object Ball? These are commonly known as "Shadow Targets" and they can open up your eyes to something that you may have missed (or has caused you to miss) all these years.

There are three basic "Shadow Targets,"

1) Where the shadow connects to the object ball (cast or cone shadow)

2) The center of the cast shadow (this will lean towards the "contact side") on the table cast by the Object Ball

3) The edge of the Object Ball shadow (on the side opposite the intended pocket) - this is also cast on the table by the O.B.

I don't get it.... When the earth revolves, the shadows from the rising sun are cast toward the West.

Shadows from the setting sun are cast to the East. The sun remains still. The ball (earth) revolves.

Earth casts a shadow on changing moon positions. That shadow moves from one side to the other.

Shadows cast from an OB will vary as positions change on the table. The light source remains still.

I'd have some understanding to what you're saying if the light source was from a single bulb. It isn't.

With multiple light sources and all the variables of OB positions... How can this be used for aiming?
.

CJ Wiley · Aug 19, 2014

the challenge is knowing how to find it

It doesn't matter about the light source, the shadow system can be used on any table and the light doesn't even have to be directly above the table.

"Aiming" is done on the subconscious level, however the mind needs specific relative points to produce the desired angles. Notice I said "relative points" - this can be the "center," " the "edge," or a light or shadow on the ball or table.....there's always one that is correct, the challenge is knowing how to find it. 'The Game is the teacher'

Ralph Kramden said:
I don't get it.... When the earth revolves, the shadows from the rising sun are cast toward the West.

Shadows from the setting sun are cast to the East. The sun remains still. The ball (earth) revolves.

Earth casts a shadow on changing moon positions. That shadow moves from one side to the other.

Shadows cast from an OB will vary as positions change on the table. The light source remains still.

I'd have some understanding to what you're saying if the light source was from a single bulb. It isn't.

With multiple light sources and all the variables of OB positions... How can this be used for aiming?
.

Dan White · Aug 21, 2014

One Pocket John said:
One way you can experience this for yourself (without a cue in your hand or QB) is to line up a cut shot on an OB as you normally would, bend over to shoot the shot and imagine playing the QB one or two rail position off the OB to the next shot. What you will notice is that your feel/touch has become very sensitive to the shot. That's what your looking for on every shot.

John - I'm not sure how this increases touch or feel. You seem to be describing the idea of playing position, which is what you should be doing on every shot anyway. I don't quite understand your point on this, but would like to.

Dan White · Aug 21, 2014

CJ Wiley said:
Understanding how this is done is a HUGE advantage because it enables the player to maximize both their visual experience AND their "feel and touch" experience on the same shot by effectively shifting back and forth from one to the other at EXACTLY the vital time, thus synergistically increasing both sense's full potential.

This information can be amazingly beneficial so give it some serious thought....

I am assuming that the method by which you achieve this enhanced sense of feel is not revealed for free? I'm not being a wise-guy, I'm trying to understand what you are saying. You mention shadows and feel but don't actually describe how to make use of this information. I assume, then, that these posts are teasers to get people to check out your website?

Dan White · Aug 21, 2014

CJ Wiley said:
Did you know that many great players use the SHADOW of the Object Ball? These are commonly known as "Shadow Targets" and they can open up your eyes to something that you may have missed (or has caused you to miss) all these years.

I'm open to anything, but these "explanations" are so vague. Let me throw something out there and please tell me if I am wrong:

You say that people generally aim subconsciously. I take this to mean that anybody of modest ability can see the correct spot on the object ball and can typically hit that spot if they happen to stroke the cue well. I'm talking about maybe a good B player or higher. I know for myself that I just look at the OB and know where it needs to be hit to go in the pocket. The trick is in delivering the cue correctly so that the cue ball actually goes where I want it to. I do not believe for a second that any pro player needs a crutch of any kind in order to aim correctly. I can do it and I don't play nearly as much as a pro.

So I'm thinking about these shadows and you keep mentioning reference points and ways to connect the CB and OB. It occurred to me that maybe you are using the shadows as aiming points to stroke the cue at AFTER you have already determined the correct aim point and have lined up the shot. In other words, let's say I'm cutting a ball the right. I line up the shot and get down on it in the proper position to pocket the ball (I have already "aimed" the shot). Now I could use the ghost ball method to send the cue ball where I want it to go, but sometimes you can steer the cue toward the object ball if there is no clear target for the cue stick. So now I look for a shadow or edge of a shadow or small section of the object ball or some tangible aiming point that happens to be on the line I am trying to deliver my cue stick (in this case on the left side of the object ball). I could imagine that procedure being an alternative to the ghost ball method. Actually it would be using the ghost ball method to line up the shot, and then picking out a specific spot that happens to be in exact alignment with where you want the cue to point during the stroke.

CJ - does any of this have anything to do with what you are saying?

Dan White · Aug 21, 2014

AtLarge said:
Pidge and Dan White -- Would each of you explain what you do to put the head/eyes in the "right place"?

It isn't easy without the right feedback. From time to time over many years I've had people tell me I wasn't lined up perfectly straight on straight in shots. I'd have them look down the cue from across the table and tell me when the ob, cb and cue were all in alignment (you can also try using a camera phone). At first when they told me everything was perfectly aligned I thought they were crazy because I was now aiming at a 1/4 hit on the object ball! Then I thought I must have some kind of defect in my vision. Neither was true.

I eventually found a head position where the observer said everything was aligned perfectly, the shot looked aligned perfectly to me, and when I hit the shot it went in perfectly. After finding that position, you learn where it is for subsequent shots because it just looks and feels a certain way.

Warning: doing this may force you to change everything else about your stroke, too. You may find that to have your head in this new spot that now you have to put your feet somewhere else and maybe that causes other problems you aren't used to.

So bottom line is I found the correct head position by trial and error. Having your dominant eye above the cue may or may not be right for you.

I recommend Mark Wilson's book, Play Great Pool. This will help with critical fundamentals, but it won't find that perfect head position for you, although it might get you close.

CJ Wiley · Aug 22, 2014

I've written plenty of free information on this subject, you just have to be willing

You need to read my post, I describe how to maximize use of your modalities so you can get the most touch and feel by diminishing your visual sense (while down on the shot) - I've written plenty of free information on this subject, you just have to be willing to look.

Dan White said:
I am assuming that the method by which you achieve this enhanced sense of feel is not revealed for free? I'm not being a wise-guy, I'm trying to understand what you are saying. You mention shadows and feel but don't actually describe how to make use of this information. I assume, then, that these posts are teasers to get people to check out your website?

CJ Wiley · Aug 22, 2014

yes, if you already know where the "shot line" is

I don't use the typical "ghost ball," however, I'll take it for granted that you simply mean the place that {the cue ball} must contact {the object} ball to create the correct angle.

So, yes, if you already know where the "shot line" is you can simply see what part of the shadow connects to that path of the cue ball (some players use the center or TOI part of the ferrule to align to this spot as well).

You can even see a light on the ball in some instances, most times there is a relative point and if not you can always use a spot (like 10o'clock or 2 o'clock for example) on the cue ball connected to either the center or edge of the object ball. I do both for a "check and balance" at times.

Dan White said:
I'm open to anything, but these "explanations" are so vague. Let me throw something out there and please tell me if I am wrong:

You say that people generally aim subconsciously. I take this to mean that anybody of modest ability can see the correct spot on the object ball and can typically hit that spot if they happen to stroke the cue well. I'm talking about maybe a good B player or higher. I know for myself that I just look at the OB and know where it needs to be hit to go in the pocket. The trick is in delivering the cue correctly so that the cue ball actually goes where I want it to. I do not believe for a second that any pro player needs a crutch of any kind in order to aim correctly. I can do it and I don't play nearly as much as a pro.

So I'm thinking about these shadows and you keep mentioning reference points and ways to connect the CB and OB. It occurred to me that maybe you are using the shadows as aiming points to stroke the cue at AFTER you have already determined the correct aim point and have lined up the shot. In other words, let's say I'm cutting a ball the right. I line up the shot and get down on it in the proper position to pocket the ball (I have already "aimed" the shot). Now I could use the ghost ball method to send the cue ball where I want it to go, but sometimes you can steer the cue toward the object ball if there is no clear target for the cue stick. So now I look for a shadow or edge of a shadow or small section of the object ball or some tangible aiming point that happens to be on the line I am trying to deliver my cue stick (in this case on the left side of the object ball). I could imagine that procedure being an alternative to the ghost ball method. Actually it would be using the ghost ball method to line up the shot, and then picking out a specific spot that happens to be in exact alignment with where you want the cue to point during the stroke.

CJ - does any of this have anything to do with what you are saying?

Ralph Kramden · Aug 22, 2014

CJ Wiley said:
I don't use the typical "ghost ball," however, I'll take it for granted that you simply mean the place that {the cue ball} must contact {the object} ball to create the correct angle.

So, yes, if you already know where the "shot line" is you can simply see what part of the shadow connects to that path of the cue ball (some players use the center or TOI part of the ferrule to align to this spot as well).

You can even see a light on the ball in some instances, most times there is a relative point and if not you can always use a spot (like 10o'clock or 2 o'clock for example) on the cue ball connected to either the center or edge of the object ball. I do both for a "check and balance" at times.

I now can see what you are telling us. :idea2:
The ball shadow isn't the exact aim point.
The shadow can be used as a reference.
.

CJ Wiley · Aug 22, 2014

And the "Light" goes on.

And the "Light" goes on.....I like it when that happens, it makes it all worthwhile.

all praise goes to the game - 'The Game is the Teacher'.com

Ralph Kramden said:
I now can see what you are telling us. :idea2:
The ball shadow isn't the exact aim point.
The shadow can be used as a reference.
.

Dan White · Aug 22, 2014

Ralph Kramden said:
I now can see what you are telling us. :idea2:
The ball shadow isn't the exact aim point.
The shadow can be used as a reference.
.

What I believe CJ is saying is that you've already aimed the shot when you get down into shooting position. You can use shadows or bright spots or reflections, whatever, to aim at as long as that spot is on the shot line that you have already established. This gives you something concrete to shoot at instead of shooting into the open space of a "ghost ball."

Correct?

Has the Secret to Pool been Cast "In the Shadows???"

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