A Huge Thank You from CueSports International (CSI)!

Joe_Jaguar · Aug 10, 2015

Eurotroll said:
Can someone explain a little more clearly to a non english speaker what happened?

Basically, reading between the lines/posts, it is being insinuated that CSI threaten to bar Oscar and/or Skylar from the CSI events in Vegas (and more?) that carried Mosconi ranking points unless their streamed gambling match took an extra long dinner break so that there was not a competing stream while CSI aired their BS 7 foot challenge/exhibition match, which ended up being the "most watched pay-per-view event in the history of CSI" :killingme:

Eurotroll · Aug 10, 2015

Joe_Jaguar said:
Basically, reading between the lines/posts, it is being insinuated that CSI threaten to bar Oscar and/or Skylar from the CSI events in Vegas (and more?) that carried Mosconi ranking points unless their streamed gambling match took an extra long dinner break so that there was not a competing stream while CSI aired their BS 7 foot challenge/exhibition match, which ended up being the "most watched pay-per-view event in the history of CSI" :killingme:

wow, that would be ugly.... thank for your explanation!

spartan · Aug 10, 2015

Joe_Jaguar said:
Basically, reading between the lines/posts, it is being insinuated that CSI threaten to bar Oscar and/or Skylar from the CSI events in Vegas (and more?) that carried Mosconi ranking points unless their streamed gambling match took an extra long dinner break so that there was not a competing stream while CSI aired their BS 7 foot challenge/exhibition match, which ended up being the "most watched pay-per-view event in the history of CSI" :killingme:

Thanks for the politically incorrect recap. I love it when people tell it like it is like Donald Trump
Now after last year's shenanigans and this year running smoothly (except for crazy baby table conversion) until this alleged strong arm tactic surfaced, CSI must be feeling like Pacino's Corleone in GF3

throne4 · Aug 10, 2015

robsnotes4u said:
It is called the Golden Rule. It works in all business and life in general. Why does anyone who is not a partner, invested or owner in any company think they have the right to know anything about the inner deals? I would fire all you complainers, not allowing you to be my customers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Amen to that. In Canada we call it the Union Mentality!

Mark Griffin · Aug 10, 2015

Huge Thanks from CSI

I find it rather amusing with all the comments being thrown around. Several of the posters take joy in stirring up stories based on half truths.

I am not going to justify the lynch crowd mentality. We went through that that last year when Ralf just quit in the middle of a tournament - and we became the bad guys for making the event continue and to uphold our commitments.

I really think that CSI has more than proven ourselves to perform to the highest standards and to the benefit of the industry. But yet some of these posters know they can pick up the phone and it can be discussed without everyone else throwing in their (uninformed) opinions.

There is no point in getting into the details of what occurred. That is a never ending discussion that would inevitably turn into an argument. That is unfortunate because I think there is a lesson to be learned from situations such as this. But, in this case I think I'll let all the detectives and guessers just keep posting their 'version' of the sinister deeds that CSI does. (BTW that is being sarcastic).

If someone really thinks they need to know, I guess they can call someone who does know. I would suggest Oscar, or Ray Hansen, or maybe Mark Griffin. I would suggest Ozzy but he's smarter than me and won't put up with this BS. Since I have more free time than he does (because he's the one that makes a lot of this stuff happen) - you'll have better luck with me.

There was a lot of debate on AZ Billiards about 7' tables for the US Open events. We have several years of records with various events and the 7' table events ALWAYS do better then 9' events. You can blame me if you want, but that just shows your vision is impaired. We only react to the marketplace, we don't create it.

And one other thing - if you think it's so damn simple and easy, I strongly suggest you go out and do some events on your own. Or, if you want a 'cheaper' experience, volunteer to help us run next years event. You might just learn something.

This is getting a little longer than planned, but it's easy to point fingers from a distance. Learn the facts and you make the decision. And keep in mind some of those facts have absolutely nothing to do with you.

So, in my normal fashion, I will accept constructive criticism on almost any subject. I will not respond to most posts in this thread. And there might be a couple of people whose posts are almost insulting and show very little respect. My only real question might be; where would pool in the US be if Mark Griffin or CSI just got fed up with all the negative comments. Where would 'pro' pool be? Who else would have funded TAR for 5 years (at a loss)? Who has promoted the Jay Swanson event for close to 20 years? How about the US Bar Table Championships? Ever heard of the US Open One Pocket, or US Open 8-ball, or 10-ball? Almost every 'pro event' is run at a loss. I do that willingly and with a smile because I have a real passion for the game.

But I will not tolerate comments from uneducated or spiteful sources. Someday I believe this game can attain much higher thresholds than seen in recent years. I think CSI is the best chance the US has in making this happen. I also strongly suggest some of these detractors analyze their motives. As they say, if you're not part of the solution, you might be part of the problem.

If you want respect, you better give respect.

Mark Griffin, CEO. (702-835-2000)
CueSports International, LLC
BCAPL
USAPL

BeiberLvr · Aug 11, 2015

Mark Griffin said:
I find it rather amusing with all the comments being thrown around. Several of the posters take joy in stirring up stories based on half truths.

I am not going to justify the lynch crowd mentality. We went through that that last year when Ralf just quit in the middle of a tournament - and we became the bad guys for making the event continue and to uphold our commitments.

I really think that CSI has more than proven ourselves to perform to the highest standards and to the benefit of the industry. But yet some of these posters know they can pick up the phone and it can be discussed without everyone else throwing in their (uninformed) opinions.

There is no point in getting into the details of what occurred. That is a never ending discussion that would inevitably turn into an argument. That is unfortunate because I think there is a lesson to be learned from situations such as this. But, in this case I think I'll let all the detectives and guessers just keep posting their 'version' of the sinister deeds that CSI does. (BTW that is being sarcastic).

If someone really thinks they need to know, I guess they can call someone who does know. I would suggest Oscar, or Ray Hansen, or maybe Mark Griffin. I would suggest Ozzy but he's smarter than me and won't put up with this BS. Since I have more free time than he does (because he's the one that makes a lot of this stuff happen) - you'll have better luck with me.

There was a lot of debate on AZ Billiards about 7' tables for the US Open events. We have several years of records with various events and the 7' table events ALWAYS do better then 9' events. You can blame me if you want, but that just shows your vision is impaired. We only react to the marketplace, we don't create it.

And one other thing - if you think it's so damn simple and easy, I strongly suggest you go out and do some events on your own. Or, if you want a 'cheaper' experience, volunteer to help us run next years event. You might just learn something.

This is getting a little longer than planned, but it's easy to point fingers from a distance. Learn the facts and you make the decision. And keep in mind some of those facts have absolutely nothing to do with you.

So, in my normal fashion, I will accept constructive criticism on almost any subject. I will not respond to most posts in this thread. And there might be a couple of people whose posts are almost insulting and show very little respect. My only real question might be; where would pool in the US be if Mark Griffin or CSI just got fed up with all the negative comments. Where would 'pro' pool be? Who else would have funded TAR for 5 years (at a loss)? Who has promoted the Jay Swanson event for close to 20 years? How about the US Bar Table Championships? Ever heard of the US Open One Pocket, or US Open 8-ball, or 10-ball? Almost every 'pro event' is run at a loss. I do that willingly and with a smile because I have a real passion for the game.

But I will not tolerate comments from uneducated or spiteful sources. Someday I believe this game can attain much higher thresholds than seen in recent years. I think CSI is the best chance the US has in making this happen. I also strongly suggest some of these detractors analyze their motives. As they say, if you're not part of the solution, you might be part of the problem.

If you want respect, you better give respect.

Mark Griffin, CEO. (702-835-2000)
CueSports International, LLC
BCAPL
USAPL

The event could have continued just fine without the decision you made.

cleary · Aug 11, 2015

Yea but so about the Sky/Oscar match??

I only know what Ray and one of Oscar's backers told me but in my opinion (for what little that's worth) it sounds like a bully tactic. I know I could also call you on the phone but I don't think it's unfair for the truth to be in public. After all, if you have done no wrong then you'd only benefit and walk away like a hero saying it. The version I've heard sadly doesn't put CSI in that favorable light. Guess that happens when the person you choose to run your company thinks he's smarter than NASA and doesn't think before he speaks.

BeiberLvr · Aug 11, 2015

robsnotes4u said:
It is called the Golden Rule. It works in all business and life in general. Why does anyone who is not a partner, invested or owner in any company think they have the right to know anything about the inner deals? I would fire all you complainers, not allowing you to be my customers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about the people that purchased the BigTruck stream that got delayed 3 hours?

Seems to me they should be allowed to know exactly why things happened the way they did.

JAM · Aug 11, 2015

I am grateful for Mark Griffin and CSI. It is a thankless job doing these events, and anybody who has been around the pool scene for a while knows you cannot and will not please everybody. MANY people have wondered why Mark Griffin has poured so much money into pool over the years in various enterprises with no profit. That right there is a fact, a sad fact that nobody seems to care or understand.

With that said, this thread contains not only untruths written by those who heard it through the grapevine, but it reaks of pool politics. I guess it depends on who is your friend as far as who to defend when it comes to pool in the States.

As with everything else in the pool world, I guess it's who you know as far as where yoru allegiance lies.

Oh, one more thing, I don't know Ozzy from Adam or Eve. Never met the kid. But I do know he has a strong reputation here on the East Coast for being an honest guy who is very passionate about hosting successful pool competitions. People I know well sing his praises. We lost a good man when he moved to Vegas. I guess everybody has their favorites, and though I don't know this kid, I'm rooting for him. He enjoys a sterling track record in my neck of the woods.

jay helfert · Aug 11, 2015

JAM said:
I am grateful for Mark Griffin and CSI. It is a thankless job doing these events, and anybody who has been around the pool scene for a while knows you cannot and will not please everybody. MANY people have wondered why Mark Griffin has poured so much money into pool over the years in various enterprises with no profit. That right there is a fact, a sad fact that nobody seems to care or understand.

With that said, this thread contains not only untruths written by those who heard it through the grapevine, but it reaks of pool politics. I guess it depends on who is your friend as far as who to defend when it comes to pool in the States.

As with everything else in the pool world, I guess it's who you know as far as where yoru allegiance lies.

Oh, one more thing, I don't know Ozzy from Adam or Eve. Never met the kid. But I do know he has a strong reputation here on the East Coast for being an honest guy who is very passionate about hosting successful pool competitions. People I know well sing his praises. We lost a good man when he moved to Vegas. I guess everybody has their favorites, and though I don't know this kid, I'm rooting for him. He enjoys a sterling track record in my neck of the woods.

Ozzy's no kid anymore. He's a 40 year old man who who isn't afraid to take on a huge (and thankless) job and work hard to make it a success. He was there bright and early every day, overseeing the entire operation that is the BCAPL and USAPL national championships, plus the U.S. Open events. He's not perfect and may make a misstep or two. It goes with the territory. So unlike the keyboard warriors who never err from the comfort of their living room. I gained a lot of respect for him this past week.

cleary · Aug 11, 2015

JAM said:
I am grateful for Mark Griffin and CSI. It is a thankless job doing these events, and anybody who has been around the pool scene for a while knows you cannot and will not please everybody. MANY people have wondered why Mark Griffin has poured so much money into pool over the years in various enterprises with no profit. That right there is a fact, a sad fact that nobody seems to care or understand.

With that said, this thread contains not only untruths written by those who heard it through the grapevine, but it reaks of pool politics. I guess it depends on who is your friend as far as who to defend when it comes to pool in the States.

As with everything else in the pool world, I guess it's who you know as far as where yoru allegiance lies.

Oh, one more thing, I don't know Ozzy from Adam or Eve. Never met the kid. But I do know he has a strong reputation here on the East Coast for being an honest guy who is very passionate about hosting successful pool competitions. People I know well sing his praises. We lost a good man when he moved to Vegas. I guess everybody has their favorites, and though I don't know this kid, I'm rooting for him. He enjoys a sterling track record in my neck of the woods.

You are very informed in the pool world and so am I. Our "grapevines" are pretty reliable and close sources.

I've defended CSI in the past when I thought they were right and I've also stood up against them in the past when I felt they were wrong. It's not about allegiances, it's about standing up for what's right.

If every time Barry and Charlie did something stupid, they masked it by saying "but I create this event or that event", that still makes what they do wrong. Sure we can be thankful for events we are able to watch or play in but that doesn't mean anyone should get a pass.

derekdisco · Aug 11, 2015

Derekdisco didnt watch any of the streams, but if you ask me, I bet Mark woulda halted his challenge match had they started first. Derekdisco would like to know one strokes opinion on this.

gxman · Aug 11, 2015

Off topic, but if anyone knows..

were there any 9ft diamonds at the event?

I'm asking b/c there was a for sale thread for tournament used 9ft diamonds coming back from Nevada. I'm possibly interested in buying one.

JAM · Aug 11, 2015

jay helfert said:
Ozzy's no kid anymore. He's a 40 year old man who who isn't afraid to take on a huge (and thankless) job and work hard to make it a success. He was there bright and early every day, overseeing the entire operation that is the BCAPL and USAPL national championships, plus the U.S. Open events. He's not perfect and may make a misstep or two. It goes with the territory. So unlike the keyboard warriors who never err from the comfort of their living room. I gained a lot of respect for him this past week.

What I wrote was a compliment to Ozzy.

FWIW, most everybody is a kid to me these days, Jay.

JAM · Aug 11, 2015

cleary said:
You are very informed in the pool world and so am I. Our "grapevines" are pretty reliable and close sources.

I've defended CSI in the past when I thought they were right and I've also stood up against them in the past when I felt they were wrong. It's not about allegiances, it's about standing up for what's right.

If every time Barry and Charlie did something stupid, they masked it by saying "but I create this event or that event", that still makes what they do wrong. Sure we can be thankful for events we are able to watch or play in but that doesn't mean anyone should get a pass.

I understand what you mean, Cleary.

I've been a part of tournament administration in the past on a much smaller scale than CSI. It was extremely frustrating to me at the time that the tournament was in progress. Even though I had written out the tournament rules and ensured that all competitors were aware of them, there were still unforeseen circumstances that arose that were beyond my control. I came to the conclusion that you just can't please everybody when running a pool event, no matter how hard you try.

Now, with that said, I think you and I will both agree that we live in a fractured pool economy, especially in the United States. No pool event is perfect, no matter how hard we try. Out of respect for some people I hold in high regard, I have refrained from posting on this forum about what I really think of how things were handled from time to time.

If there were tournament monies not paid out, like what happened to Keith in Burlington, Iowa, many moons ago; or if some players were given favoritism with byes, like what happend to Keith in 2004; or if some players were given favoritism and allowed to come to the tournament at noon instead of 8 a.m. like the rest of the competitors, like what happennd to Keith in 2003, I would empathize with others. Pool entities should be working together and not have factions fighting against each other.

And only because today's Punctuation Tip of the Day on my industry forum is about the usage of "thank-you" as a noun and adjective (requires a hyphen) versus "thank you" when used as a verb, I will mention that the title of this thread should read, as follows: "A Huge Thank-You from CueSports International (CSI)!" :grin:

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thank-you

Stew_Pidaso · Aug 11, 2015

9' Diamonds

gxman said:
Off topic, but if anyone knows..

were there any 9ft diamonds at the event?

I'm asking b/c there was a for sale thread for tournament used 9ft diamonds coming back from Nevada. I'm possibly interested in buying one.

There were 6 9' Diamonds there at the Rio. Plus 2 or 3 used in Vendor booths. One was right next to the bleachers for the streaming tables and 5 others were in a back ballroom. These 6 were used for the American Rotation tournament. Joe Tucker did a great job of running this tournament with the limited time and resources available, despite what some may say. Hopefully this portion of the event continues to grow from year to year.

So, to answer your question, yes there were 9's there and should be for sale of they haven't all been sold already. Good luck.

Joe_Jaguar · Aug 11, 2015

Mark Griffin said:
I find it rather amusing with all the comments being thrown around. Several of the posters take joy in stirring up stories based on half truths.

I am not going to justify the lynch crowd mentality. We went through that that last year when Ralf just quit in the middle of a tournament - and we became the bad guys for making the event continue and to uphold our commitments.

I really think that CSI has more than proven ourselves to perform to the highest standards and to the benefit of the industry. But yet some of these posters know they can pick up the phone and it can be discussed without everyone else throwing in their (uninformed) opinions.

There is no point in getting into the details of what occurred. That is a never ending discussion that would inevitably turn into an argument. That is unfortunate because I think there is a lesson to be learned from situations such as this. But, in this case I think I'll let all the detectives and guessers just keep posting their 'version' of the sinister deeds that CSI does. (BTW that is being sarcastic).

If someone really thinks they need to know, I guess they can call someone who does know. I would suggest Oscar, or Ray Hansen, or maybe Mark Griffin. I would suggest Ozzy but he's smarter than me and won't put up with this BS. Since I have more free time than he does (because he's the one that makes a lot of this stuff happen) - you'll have better luck with me.

There was a lot of debate on AZ Billiards about 7' tables for the US Open events. We have several years of records with various events and the 7' table events ALWAYS do better then 9' events. You can blame me if you want, but that just shows your vision is impaired. We only react to the marketplace, we don't create it.

And one other thing - if you think it's so damn simple and easy, I strongly suggest you go out and do some events on your own. Or, if you want a 'cheaper' experience, volunteer to help us run next years event. You might just learn something.

This is getting a little longer than planned, but it's easy to point fingers from a distance. Learn the facts and you make the decision. And keep in mind some of those facts have absolutely nothing to do with you.

So, in my normal fashion, I will accept constructive criticism on almost any subject. I will not respond to most posts in this thread. And there might be a couple of people whose posts are almost insulting and show very little respect. My only real question might be; where would pool in the US be if Mark Griffin or CSI just got fed up with all the negative comments. Where would 'pro' pool be? Who else would have funded TAR for 5 years (at a loss)? Who has promoted the Jay Swanson event for close to 20 years? How about the US Bar Table Championships? Ever heard of the US Open One Pocket, or US Open 8-ball, or 10-ball? Almost every 'pro event' is run at a loss. I do that willingly and with a smile because I have a real passion for the game.

But I will not tolerate comments from uneducated or spiteful sources. Someday I believe this game can attain much higher thresholds than seen in recent years. I think CSI is the best chance the US has in making this happen. I also strongly suggest some of these detractors analyze their motives. As they say, if you're not part of the solution, you might be part of the problem.

If you want respect, you better give respect.

Mark Griffin, CEO. (702-835-2000)
CueSports International, LLC
BCAPL
USAPL

What lynch crowd mentality? Most people on here act like CSI walks on water and does whatever they can to help by buying streams or recommending to others. Of course there is a “point in getting into the details of what occurred”. “I will not respond to most posts in this thread”. Okay, so are you going to respond to any?

I’ve bought numerous streams in the past and been a customer. That can change quickly. I didn’t like the shift to 7 footers so I didn’t buy the streams. It is called voting with my wallet. I understand why you switched as that is the audience at the tournament. I understand why you tried to utilize the capital you invested in the US Open brand by trying to label this bar tournament as US Opens even though even Hohmann himself had to stop and do a double take on that Title when being interviewed after his victory. Last year with Ralf, well that jag-off quit and left CSI and the stream viewers in a bad spot so you did what you had to do by taking the next person in line to advance into the single elims. Some people just can’t get that through their heads, so what. If people don’t like that scenario, get rid of the stupid round robins in the first place.

But you might want to actually address these “bullying” rumors. Silence speaks volumes. Can’t really cherry pick all the time how you want to engage and utilize a public forum without getting called out from time to time.

I met you twice at the TAR Studio for matches I flew into to see. Good to see you are recovering well from your lung transplant.

gxman · Aug 11, 2015

Stew_Pidaso said:
There were 6 9' Diamonds there at the Rio. Plus 2 or 3 used in Vendor booths. One was right next to the bleachers for the streaming tables and 5 others were in a back ballroom. These 6 were used for the American Rotation tournament. Joe Tucker did a great job of running this tournament with the limited time and resources available, despite what some may say. Hopefully this portion of the event continues to grow from year to year.

So, to answer your question, yes there were 9's there and should be for sale of they haven't all been sold already. Good luck.

I appreciate the info.

mikeyfrost · Aug 11, 2015

I'm confused so was Sky told if he wouldn't take a break he was out of the CSI events now and in the future while knowing his run at the Mosconi is still on or was that never really put to him? Nobody wants to call people and have private conversations, people just want to know what happened

RBC · Aug 11, 2015

I was at the CSI office yesterday, and visited with both Mark and Ozzy. No, I wasn't there to find the scoop on this scandal. I was there to say hi as we are held over in Vegas for the APA tournament.

While I was there, we did talk about this very topic.Both Mark and Ozzy explained pretty clearly what had happened and all they did to address the timing conflict. I didn't find anything they did wrong.

I recommend that anyone who wants to know what happened should just call them. They will be happy to talk about it and explain it all in detail.

I'm not sure they will come here and explain it, and I really don't blame them. There are just too many people here who thrive on passing judgement on them. No matter what they did at the time, many who weren't there and have never done what they do will tell the whole world that they did it wrong.

I can tell you that OB Cues supports CSI for what they do for pool, BigTruck for what he does to bring matches together for people to watch, and all the players who make the sacrifices to play this game as a profession. We think all of these people deserve a pat on the back for their efforts. Even if sometimes it's not silky smooth.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

A Huge Thank You from CueSports International (CSI)!

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We woulda won state!

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