Would consider this cheating by the tournament director?

Is this Cheating or not

  • Yes Cheating

    Votes: 31 50.0%
  • No not Cheating

    Votes: 31 50.0%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always considered the rule book to be the definitive resource when there are disputes. What you might consider "Universal" may not be viewed the same by others.
Like you, I have always considered it an act of concession but if my opponent disputed my claim I would have to defer to the rules.

My opinion against someone with a contrary option does not afford me the higher ground. The rules always prevail.

If it were truly universal.....it would be a rule and there would be no dispute....in much the same way we recognize that if our opponent scratches, his inning has ended...It's a rule.

Keep in mind, there is no universal rule book regarding pool. Every league has their own rules.

Well, I ain't no tournament guy, I ain't no league guy, I'm an action guy. I can assure you in most places if someone unscrews while you go to shoot it is concession. If that is contested, there WILL BE A FIGHT. It's not in any rule book, it's understood - it's code.
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This could open a real can of worms, I have met a few players, who, if given half a go ahead, would get behind you on your last shot, and tell you if you make the ball, they will murder your entire family.
Anything to get the win!
Where are all those shark proof guys?
Fade that one, from some broke down meth head .

Dude, where/who do you play ?
NOBODY with even one functional brain cell would EVER say that.
If someone where to say that they would be put down immediately , BEFORE any shot on a 9 bsll. Do you realize what you are saying or are u trying to make a joke ? That would NEVER happen more than once, I can assure you.
 

calcwby4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OFFICIAL RULES OF CUESPORTS INTERNATIONAL
1-43 Concession of Game
1. You must not concede any game at any time for any reason. “Concede” means that, as a result of any verbal or non-verbal action, you lead your opponent to believe that you are awarding them the game before its normal conclusion on the table. Before a game has ended, you must refrain from making any statements such as “good game”, etc., or any other verbal inference that the game is over or that your opponent is certain or likely to win. You must also refrain from any similar non-verbal action, such as putting away your cue or accessory items, beginning to mark a score sheet, changing clothes, retrieving or juggling coins or tokens, etc. Whether or not you have conceded a game is determined solely by the referee’s judgment.
2. If you concede a game, in addition to losing that game you will receive a mandatory warning against further concessions. A second violation results in the loss of the conceded game and an additional deduction of one game from your score (if you have zero games, your score would be "minus one game") and a final mandatory warning. A third violation results in loss of match. In team play, any member of the team may commit the second or third violations. (AR p. 98)
3. In the absence of any act by your opponent judged to be a concession under Rule 1-43-1, you must not assume that your opponent has conceded the game. If you disturb the position of the table in such a situation, then you are charged with a concession violation. (AR p. 98)
4. If you disturb the position of the table in an act that presumes the game is over before it is actually over, such as gathering balls together to rack the next game, you lose the game. (AR p. 98)

1-44 Concession of Match
When your opponent is on the hill, if you make a motion to unscrew your playing cue during your opponent's inning you lose the match. (AR p. 99)
 
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Rin

頑張ります
Silver Member
This is definitely a shady move to distract the opponent. I can see how some players could get irritated by this, it wouldn't influence me though.

I also have a nice story about a tournament director who also played in the tournament:

The director was playing against a player who is not that good, so, his opponent wanted to break the balls and accidentally hit the cue ball twice, first a bit and then the break. Like, you touch the cue ball a little but then you proceed to break really fast like a reflex.

This is obviously a foul, but the tournament director, instead of taking the foul he started a huge argument, involving other players from other tables and making an atmosphere in the pool hall that didn't feel like there was a tournament going on.
His argument was that his opponent tried to cheat because he proceeded to break after touching the cueball, so he wanted to disqualify him.

After a long discussion, the tournament director decided to just take the foul (because everyone told him to do so) and he won against the guy (that guy was never a threat)

Because of that discussion, other players had to pause their matches and lost concentration.

I don't think tournament directors should be playing in the tournament.
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
.



I don't think tournament directors should be playing in the tournament.


The problem is that for most small events you may not have a tournament at all. I don't think there is long line up of people looking to run a tournament for the very few bucks they get.

Also, both Zuglan and Oscar seem to be able to play and run the events, and I haven't heard any complaints about them. Maybe it's just the character of the TD that is in issue.
 

Big Bad Bern

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Info and the end!

Hi Everyone, I appreciate everyone who offered an opinion on this subject and I would like to provide some additional information on this topic. I didn’t provide this information in the beginning in an attempt to garner unbiased opinions to see if I was wrong.

1) I was a VNEA certified referee. I let my certification lapse because I don’t enjoy refereeing as much as playing. Neil I have refereed your VNEA Michigan state championships before as well as the Wisconsin state championship and The Las Vegas Championship. So I do know the rules it is covered under unsportsmanlike conduct which can result in a penalty up to and including loss of the game. This was verified by other referee’s in attendance, but the tournament director has final say! The other referee’s and I in attendance made many calls for him throughout the day but he made the ruling in this instance without consulting anyone. We were there unofficially as he didn’t want to pay a referee for the event so we did it as a courtesy to him and our local players.

2) When P was starting out, I was getting out of running tournaments and he asked me to teach him how to do it, which I happily did and continued to help him as recently as this tournament when he needed it. At this event he asked for my help figuring out his Calcutta payments and I sat with him and set it up as well as reffing shots throughout the day. And This is why I was shaking BmoreMoney because I watched someone I considered a friend blatantly cheat, because he made a ruling in his favor and continued on. The rules I cited earlier (re: not drinking, not playing in his own major event, and being honest with rulings) were what I taught him when he started out, and what I follow to this day.

3) I have also personally seen P do things like this before in a gambling match so this isn’t his first infraction but that was between him and the other player, I just witnessed it. Along with a bunch of other questionable things he has done that only he and I know about. He feels that if he says he is sorry that makes everything ok, but saying sorry after you have the money in your hand is not ok.

4) I called him on it because no one else would due to fear of repercussions in league next year, this doesn’t affect me as I don’t play his league. I felt compelled to confront him on this due to the fact the I tried to teach him about running tournaments, and because of such held him to the high standard, that I hold myself to. I put my face to it publicly and didn’t just stand in the shadows throwing stones.

5) I was going to post his response and apology and rectification of the situation, which all involved deemed adequate but he removed the thread from Facebook. B also posted his side which I would have shared also but alas it was removed as well as my response to him about his doing the correct thing and to move forward.

So in the end it is my belief that anything less than 100% he did not cheat is unacceptable, let alone a 50/50 split. The people that run our events must be held to a high standard. Thanks again to all who participated. Let’s consider this issue closed.

And big thanks to GideonF for his formatting help with my original post, I am a pool player after all and when I transferred it from my word document to AZ something went awry.
 
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