Why so few?

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
It's kind of a hassle to film at my pool hall. My favourite tables always have lots of people around them, and it's kind of awkward to be filming your practice session with people on the table across from- and next to you. I'm not sure if those adhesive dots would be well received either.

I love drills, but I prefer to work on one at a time. Those are my excuses. If I had a full size table at home (instead of a 7 footer collecting dust in the closet), then I'd likely try it.
 

TX Poolnut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I simply don't have the video equipment to record it. Also I only have a phone internet data plan for all my interneting. Even if I could record it, my data plan would blow up. I'm poor. :(

Plus I just gave my 9' table to beneath_the_sur.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dr. Dave just ended the Billiard University Exam Challenge. There were only 4 people in the pro division, and only 10 people entered the amateur division.

This challenge was free money. No entry fee, no travel. Just table time if you don't have free access to a 9' table. Why have so few even bothered to go after the free money? I can't do it any more due to health reasons, but there have been at least half a dozen on here that have stated that I can't play a lick. Where are their scores for that free money?

What is it? People on here don't really play the game? People are too lazy to spend an hour for a thousand? I don't get it. Not very many have even put up scores for the thread in the stickies. I really don't understand why, when the test is really good for improving ones game. Are there that few that really want to improve?

Please state the reason for not participating in it. Dr. Dave and others would really like to understand the why's of such low participation. Thank you in advance for your honest answers.


Neil, I think a long time ago I took a look at the exam and my basic reaction was: no way am I taking all the time to set up these shots and then take the time to video them. Too much pain in the posterior.

I also felt that if I did take the time to do it, I'd just end up competing with guys who would undoubtably set these drills up over and over for hours, days, weeks, and then submit their best effort. No thanks.

Two last things: I hate drills, drills get you good at doing drills. To me, what counts is what you can do -- first attempt -- in a money game or tournament. So that's what I prefer to spend my time pursuing.

Lou Figueroa
since you asked :)
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Neil, I think a long time ago I took a look at the exam and my basic reaction was: no way am I taking all the time to set up these shots and then take the time to video them. Too much pain in the posterior.
FYI, the dots are not required. We just recommend them because they make ball placement easier and more consistent.


I also felt that if I did take the time to do it, I'd just end up competing with guys who would undoubtably set these drills up over and over for hours, days, weeks, and then submit their best effort. No thanks.
That's kind of the point ... that people will use the BU Exams as a pool workout to help develop and improve the full range of pool skills. I personally enjoy the challenge of seeing how high I can push my scores . It helps motivate me, and I think my real pool game has improved as a result. Also, if everybody who participates gives it their best effort with multiple attempts and lots of practice, then the relative results will still be meaningful, IMO. For example, look at the results of the $2500 BU Exam Challenge. It takes a lot of skill, ability, focus, determination, accuracy, and consistency to achieve scores as high as were posted by the winners. Few non-pros or non-top-shortstops would be able to reach those scores, regardless of how much they might practice the exams. And if they do practice the exams long enough to where they can post those scores, their real pool game would undoubtedly be much better, IMO.

Regards,
Dave
 
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StraightPoolIU

Brent
Silver Member
I love the BU exam drills. I do many of them often as part of my practice. However, I don't typically take the time to run through the entire exam. My practice time is limited, and I don't have a table at home. If I did have a home room it would be much easier to find the time, set up the table dots, and position the camera for video.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I don't support Dr. Dave therefore I didn't submit an entry.

I am not exactly sure what "I dont support him" means, Im sure Dr, Dave has his own means of supporting himself and his family and does not need or desire any support from you whatsoever. That has got to be one of the least thought out replies ever in the history of AZB, I would like to explain how I feel a little more clearly but I do not feel like getting banned.

I did not partake in the challenge simply because I am too lazy to figure out and set up a means to record it, something I should really have easy access to.
 

center pocket

It's just a hobby, but a fun one.
Silver Member
So I intended to take this challenge seriously. I printed out the drills and setup the dots. My first attempt at exam one I scored a low 80, but it took me three days. I only get one hour to practice a day. I noticed my follow stroke was really week too and paused the exam to practice the follow drill for a whole day. My next attempt at exam one I did try to record it but scored in the sixties. Around this time side pockets video flabbergasted me at his score. Only getting an hour a day for only four to five days a week, it would have taken me a month to get a score that high. I'm a decent player and think I could have gotten there, but I just didn't have the time. Plus my table is in my garage and the summer is God awful hot. I am moving soon and will attempt then again.

On a side note watching SVB do the exams actually motivated me. Seeing him struggle a bit was motivating. A no name guy that beats SVBs score (side pocket), just screamed to me that if you had enough time you could ace the exam.

I am a dad, in college, in the army so my days start early and end late. I think an exam challenge next year will see me try alot harder. Hopefully I will have more time then because I do love to play and practice.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll go with Dr. Dave's 1,3,4 reasons.... and add to that ... just not enough
competitive juice left.

td
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just thought of a fifth reason:

5.) Some people like "Talk the Talk" but not "Walk the Talk."

Dave - I think it's difficult to get people to do anything anymore. People are so absorbed in a million different things and their free time is taken up by smart phones and netflix. I help small businesses find customers and put on classes and workshops and it is definitely a challenge to get people to participate in anything that requires an ounce of work. In general, people will pay money to forego inconvenience but very few will suffer an inconvenience to save or make some money. Apart from their regular job.

I saw your thread about the contest and I hoped it would draw a good number of people, but I also knew that I wouldn't be one of them. Because of all the reasons you stated (except #5, I can walk and talk just fine thank you :) )

If you want my advice - which I'm pretty sure you don't :) - here it is just in case there is something useful in it for you:
1) Organize some real life events where people can pay an entry fee and the best scores of the day split the pot. Also, every attempt gets entered into the online contest where the best scores in each category get cash prizes. So maybe the best in each handicap level overall + the best score for each part of the drill. I definitely do not mean showing up at a tournament and getting people to try it. This is helpful but I think an event dedicated the BU drills would be much more beneficial.

You could even organize events that are part online and part in person. So you do it at a pool hall with 10-12 competitors in person, meanwhile you could have people at home streaming in and streaming their attempts as well as watching the people in person. We do this with training seminars, we might have 6 people live in the classroom and then 25 people from around the world live online and it's just like they are there. They can ask questions, the instructors and other students can see them. It's great.

2) Instead of just having the big cash prize, you should offer a participation prize as well. Anyone who submits a video that qualifies gets a _______. Maybe a "Dr. Dave is Cool!" T-Shirt or something. You could partner with a sponsor and everyone who submits gets a cube of chalk or something. If I was on the fence and knew I had little chance of getting the prize I might be pushed over the line by an offer of a cube of chalk that I wanted to try but was a little expensive.

3) Ask for help. Be a little more forthright in why you are putting your money up for this. I'm not saying you are being dishonest at all, but everything I read about the contest was focused on what the player would benefit from doing it. No mention of how it would help you if they did. People today are motivated more by how they are helping other people or being a part of something than they used to be. It's all about the connection.

Instead of saying "Hey, you could win this prize" maybe try something along the lines of :

"I'm doing research on how well pool players do certain things and how this correlates to how well they can compete at every level. I've already learned some very exciting things which I can't wait to share with you!"

"What I really need right now though, is more people to add to my dataset. I need as many people as possible, from ALL skill levels, to do this playing test and share the results with me. This will be a tremendous benefit to all pool players because together we can learn what skills we should focus on the most during our practice sessions. What skills we can improve the fastest and which skills will help us win the most matches with the least amount of practice. So we can really focus in on building the tools we need to play our best pool."

"Oh, yeah, just to sweeten the pot we are also offering cash prizes for the best scores in each portion of the drill for each handicap level of player and the best scores overall. And everyone who submits a qualifying video will get a free piece of chalk from our sponsor, who has been really supportive of our research!"

Obviously in your own words. I'm just taking a stab at it and don't know why you want people to take the BU exams.

If you can win us over to your mission and make us a part of it, we will have a much better connection with you and your work and we will be much more willing to put in time and effort to help you.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thank you for your excellent feedback and suggestions. I would like to do sponsored and big-payout BU Exam Challenge events in the future, but not while I still have my "day job."

FYI, our honest reasons for putting on the challenge was to get some top players to take the Exams and to see how high the scores could be pushed by those players. We didn't get quite as much participation as we had hoped for (e.g., several other pros said they would do it but did not), but I think we certainly achieved our goals.

Thanks again for your input,
Dave

Dave - I think it's difficult to get people to do anything anymore. People are so absorbed in a million different things and their free time is taken up by smart phones and netflix. I help small businesses find customers and put on classes and workshops and it is definitely a challenge to get people to participate in anything that requires an ounce of work. In general, people will pay money to forego inconvenience but very few will suffer an inconvenience to save or make some money. Apart from their regular job.

I saw your thread about the contest and I hoped it would draw a good number of people, but I also knew that I wouldn't be one of them. Because of all the reasons you stated (except #5, I can walk and talk just fine thank you :) )

If you want my advice - which I'm pretty sure you don't :) - here it is just in case there is something useful in it for you:
1) Organize some real life events where people can pay an entry fee and the best scores of the day split the pot. Also, every attempt gets entered into the online contest where the best scores in each category get cash prizes. So maybe the best in each handicap level overall + the best score for each part of the drill. I definitely do not mean showing up at a tournament and getting people to try it. This is helpful but I think an event dedicated the BU drills would be much more beneficial.

You could even organize events that are part online and part in person. So you do it at a pool hall with 10-12 competitors in person, meanwhile you could have people at home streaming in and streaming their attempts as well as watching the people in person. We do this with training seminars, we might have 6 people live in the classroom and then 25 people from around the world live online and it's just like they are there. They can ask questions, the instructors and other students can see them. It's great.

2) Instead of just having the big cash prize, you should offer a participation prize as well. Anyone who submits a video that qualifies gets a _______. Maybe a "Dr. Dave is Cool!" T-Shirt or something. You could partner with a sponsor and everyone who submits gets a cube of chalk or something. If I was on the fence and knew I had little chance of getting the prize I might be pushed over the line by an offer of a cube of chalk that I wanted to try but was a little expensive.

3) Ask for help. Be a little more forthright in why you are putting your money up for this. I'm not saying you are being dishonest at all, but everything I read about the contest was focused on what the player would benefit from doing it. No mention of how it would help you if they did. People today are motivated more by how they are helping other people or being a part of something than they used to be. It's all about the connection.

Instead of saying "Hey, you could win this prize" maybe try something along the lines of :

"I'm doing research on how well pool players do certain things and how this correlates to how well they can compete at every level. I've already learned some very exciting things which I can't wait to share with you!"

"What I really need right now though, is more people to add to my dataset. I need as many people as possible, from ALL skill levels, to do this playing test and share the results with me. This will be a tremendous benefit to all pool players because together we can learn what skills we should focus on the most during our practice sessions. What skills we can improve the fastest and which skills will help us win the most matches with the least amount of practice. So we can really focus in on building the tools we need to play our best pool."

"Oh, yeah, just to sweeten the pot we are also offering cash prizes for the best scores in each portion of the drill for each handicap level of player and the best scores overall. And everyone who submits a qualifying video will get a free piece of chalk from our sponsor, who has been really supportive of our research!"

Obviously in your own words. I'm just taking a stab at it and don't know why you want people to take the BU exams.

If you can win us over to your mission and make us a part of it, we will have a much better connection with you and your work and we will be much more willing to put in time and effort to help you.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FYI, the dots are not required. We just recommend them because they make ball placement easier and more consistent.


That's kind of the point ... that people will use the BU Exams as a pool workout to help develop and improve the full range of pool skills. I personally enjoy the challenge of seeing how high I can push my scores . It helps motivate me, and I think my real pool game has improved as a result. Also, if everybody who participates gives it their best effort with multiple attempts and lots of practice, then the relative results will still be meaningful, IMO. For example, look at the results of the $2500 BU Exam Challenge. It takes a lot of skill, ability, focus, determination, accuracy, and consistency to achieve scores as high as were posted by the winners. Few non-pros or non-top-shortstops would be able to reach those scores, regardless of how much they might practice the exams. And if they do practice the exams long enough to where they can post those scores, their real pool game would undoubtedly be much better, IMO.

Regards,
Dave


Didn't say nothin' 'bout no dots.

And frankly, the question was why I personally didn't do the exam and I gave an honest answer.

Now, if others find the "tool" that is the exam useful, in terms of concentrating, motivation, challenging themselves, whatever -- I say more power to them. But hitting pool balls with purpose and concentration has never been a problem for me.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
Didn't say nothin' 'bout no dots.

And frankly, the question was why I personally didn't do the exam and I gave an honest answer.

Now, if others find use the "tool" that is the exam useful, in terms of concentrating, motivation, challenging themselves, whatever -- I say more power to them. But hitting pool balls with purpose and concentration has never been a problem for me.

Lou Figueroa

Nor, I.
Unless, of course, too many shots of Quervo were involved. :smile:
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's great thing but it's a AAA or better test so very few simply by numbers are capable of being in contention


1
 
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Celtic

AZB's own 8-ball jihadist
Silver Member
I quit playing pool about 4 years ago when I moved up to Fort McMurray due to 14.5 hour work days including daily commute and no real pool scene in town and no pool hall.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Dr. Dave just ended the Billiard University Exam Challenge. There were only 4 people in the pro division, and only 10 people entered the amateur division.

This challenge was free money. No entry fee, no travel. Just table time if you don't have free access to a 9' table. Why have so few even bothered to go after the free money? I can't do it any more due to health reasons, but there have been at least half a dozen on here that have stated that I can't play a lick. Where are their scores for that free money?

What is it? People on here don't really play the game? People are too lazy to spend an hour for a thousand? I don't get it. Not very many have even put up scores for the thread in the stickies. I really don't understand why, when the test is really good for improving ones game. Are there that few that really want to improve?

Please state the reason for not participating in it. Dr. Dave and others would really like to understand the why's of such low participation. Thank you in advance for your honest answers.

People are too lazy. I have dedicated half of my shop to a free training area and NO ONE shows up to actually train. I say I will give away raffle tickets for a case if they can beat us in a short race and they come to do that. But if they lose they have to work on their game for an hour and they refuse to do it.

It's that simple really.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Neil,

I've been practicing the drills, have most of the dots in place, and use paper for "hit" areas instead of dots.

I thought i"d have more camera skills when I got done practicing, but I don't. I will have my son post a video in the fall of me. Not gonna win this, but won't be embarrassed either ;)
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
People are too lazy. I have dedicated half of my shop to a free training area and NO ONE shows up to actually train. I say I will give away raffle tickets for a case if they can beat us in a short race and they come to do that. But if they lose they have to work on their game for an hour and they refuse to do it.

It's that simple really.

If Earth was near my house I would be at your shop at least 5 times a week free case or no free case.
 
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