Palmer Cue Find this week_ Szamboti Forearm?

TATE · Jan 28, 2020

Here's the Model 12 I think is a Szamboti forearm. This cue has a very nicely veneered blank but it was turned slightly offset. Two sides show uneven and two sides are even (veneers and prongs). This is typical of a cue that was not properly centered on the lathe. The veneer miters are super clean, tight and very even, even up close.

mikemosconi · Jan 28, 2020

Thank you very much- I appreciate the feedback! Thanks to everyone for shedding some light on this for me.

forabeer · Jan 28, 2020

Interesting . . . MikeMosconi"s Model12 and Tate's Model 12 each have PALMER logo on the buttcap but in a different font.

Which one is older and does that make a difference???

TATE · Jan 28, 2020

forabeer said:
Interesting . . . MikeMosconi"s Model12 and Tate's Model 12 each have PALMER logo on the buttcap but in a different font.

Which one is older and does that make a difference???

His is older. His cue is actually imprinted. They stopped doing that after awhile because the pressure needed to imprint the buttcap sometimes weakened the plastic. They went to a slide decal with a clear coat.

By the way, looking at Mike's pictures, that may be an epoxy finish. It might be original or it could be a finish over the epoxy. The epoxy was thick and yellowed over time. My cue originally had an epoxy finish too - it was pretty cracked up so Scot Sherbine refinished it for me.

The 3rd catalog cues were primarily from the 1970's but could be ordered through the 1980's. They would use whatever ebony blanks were on hand at the time and put a decal on the buttcap. They dropped the epoxy after a few years because it was too prone to cracking and chipping.

Cuebuddy · Jan 28, 2020

TATE said:
His is older. His cue is actually imprinted. They stopped doing that after awhile because the pressure needed to imprint the buttcap sometimes weakened the plastic. They went to a slide decal with a clear coat.

By the way, looking at Mike's pictures, that may be an epoxy finish. It might be original o it could be a finish over the epoxy. The epoxy was thick and yellowed over time. My cue originally had an epoxy finish too - it was pretty cracked up so Scot Sherbine refinished it for me.

The 3rd catalog cues were primarily from the 1970's but could be ordered through the 1980's. They would use whatever ebony blanks were on hand at the time and put a decal on the buttcap. They dropped the epoxy after a few years because it was too prone to cracking and chipping.

Tate I have the upmost respect for you for your knowledge and contributions to this site....but the concrete pavers verses vintage cue has me freaking out

Cuebuddy>>>needs a softer touch

TATE · Jan 28, 2020

Cuebuddy said:
Tate I have the upmost respect for you for your knowledge and contributions to this site....but the concrete pavers verses vintage cue has me freaking out

Cuebuddy>>>needs a softer touch

But the pictures come out so good! I put the cues on the pool table and the reflections suck.

By the way, I put those paver circles in myself. A bunch of different shapes that lock themselves in. Two 10' circles in my yard, one with a fire pit. It's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle.

Cuebuddy · Jan 28, 2020

Back in the day I was a flat worker. Poured mud and did pavers for years, even placed asphalt. You did a fine job. I would still trust you with my cues:grin:

mikemosconi · Jan 29, 2020

It must be an epoxy finish because it is very thick and I can see how the forearm looks a little yellowed. The finish is not cracking at all- thankfully, except a little chipping at the bottom of the butt cap.

forabeer · Jan 29, 2020

A very cool garage sale find regardless of forearm origin.
Hell, the Palmer Deluxe Case by itself is cool.

Congrats.

mikemosconi · Jan 29, 2020

Here is the Palmer Deluxe Case- just about mint condition!

u12armresl · Jan 29, 2020

PRED, don't ask him if he wants validation or what he paid. ROFL

Post pics of a cue, ask everyone for help, talk about the greatest garage find, "that's really cool, can I ask what you paid for it?"

I sell cues and I can't reveal that info because if it was a Szamboti forearm, I can really stick it to some people.

PRED said:
If you knew all this info, why ask? You want validation more than you want the truth.

mikemosconi · Jan 29, 2020

u12armresl said:
PRED, don't ask him if he wants validation or what he paid. ROFL

Post pics of a cue, ask everyone for help, talk about the greatest garage find, "that's really cool, can I ask what you paid for it?"

I sell cues and I can't reveal that info because if it was a Szamboti forearm, I can really stick it to some people.

Honestly don't know what in the world you are talking about- I have NO intention of selling this cue- no matter if Szamboti was involved in it or not - yes I have sold a lot of cues- but either way- no one's business what I paid for it. How could I 'stick it to someone" anyhow if it was a Szamboti forearm- it would just be represented for what it was.
I really don't understand some of the people on this site- some of you look for any way to turn around discussions into accusations, alternative motivations, and confrontations that have no place here at all. Why can't people here just share opinions, ask for clarifications, present alternative possibilities, and then come to a satisfactory conclusion? That's ALL I was trying to do here! What in the world is all this negativity- I don't need this and I am sure many others here would agree with me.
A word to the wise- some free advice- do whatever you want with it - but maybe you and PRED should spend more time in life making friends and not looking to to turn discussions into personal attacks simply because you don't like what you hear- life's too short my friend!

u12armresl · Jan 30, 2020

IF you have no intention of selling it, what in the earthly galaxy would telling someone what you paid for it hurt?

mikemosconi said:
Honestly don't know what in the world you are talking about- I have NO intention of selling this cue- no matter if Szamboti was involved in it or not - yes I have sold a lot of cues- but either way- no one's business what I paid for it. How could I 'stick it to someone" anyhow if it was a Szamboti forearm- it would just be represented for what it was.
I really don't understand some of the people on this site- some of you look for any way to turn around discussions into accusations, alternative motivations, and confrontations that have no place here at all. Why can't people here just share opinions, ask for clarifications, present alternative possibilities, and then come to a satisfactory conclusion? That's ALL I was trying to do here! What in the world is all this negativity- I don't need this and I am sure many others here would agree with me.
A word to the wise- some free advice- do whatever you want with it - but maybe you and PRED should spend more time in life making friends and not looking to to turn discussions into personal attacks simply because you don't like what you hear- life's too short my friend!

Chopdoc · Jan 30, 2020

mikemosconi said:
Also the forearm is straight maple, not BEM. The points are ebony and the veneers from the inside out are natural, orange, chartreuse, and ebony- although the outer two veneers are so tight together that it is hard even under a magnifier to discern.
would anyone know if this signifies a Szamboti possibility with this 3rd catalog Palmer?

Looks to be Adam blank.

Nice find.

Curious why one would think such features signify a Szam blank. Helmstetter certainly knew what he was doing when he set up that production.

none of them this old are perfect.

Really? I have some. :smile: But the finish is peeling on the bottom of yours, so not perfect.

As for what i paid for it at the tag sale-I never reveal that- I sell many cues that I find this way.

Personally, I never hide anything about a cue that I show, including what I got it for. I don't feel it has anything to do with what I might sell it for. But to each his own.

If I don't want to tell, I don't show.

But that's me.

Type79 said:
It’s common knowledge that Palmer was sourcing blanks from Adam during production of the Third Catalog cues.

It would benefit the discussion if you would post close-ups of the forearm and veneers of this cue.

Common knowledge indeed. :thumbup: But perhaps not for everyone.

Still a Palmer. Still assembled and finished in their shop. Still a nice find.

Close-ups would be great.

.

mikemosconi · Jan 31, 2020

To answer some of your questions:

1. The height of the points had me wondering about the blank since other Palmers I have seen had shorter points and I had read the Szamboti points on Palmers came up higher than others. I also thought that Szamboti used those veneer colors for Palmer cues at times. Also, this cue plays different ( better than other Palmers from my experience- a crisper hit- maybe the ebony? Also, this cue was from early in the third catalog by the imprint on the buttcap, did not know Adam contributed to early 70s Palmers.

2. By most older cues not being perfect- I was referring to the straightness of the cue- especially the shafts. I have never seen 50 year old cues with perfectly straight original shafts- maybe they do exist. These shafts are very clean, like new clean, full 13mm and 12 inch pro taper, but slight wobble.

3. As for price paid- I mentioned that I am keeping this cue- not for sale- but I do sell cues at times, what does what I paid for it have to do with showing a garage sale find? I once paid $3 at a garage sale for a mint Palmer custom cue from the PB catalog, a $400 billiard chair, and a $300 billiard cue rack - about $1200 worth of billiard equipment. I have had other similar finds in cues, watches, golf equip. cameras, ivory tusks, antiques clocks, musical instruments; you name it- Garage sales have been a hobby and sometimes side business for me for 25 years. I have never paid more than $100 for any item. Some I KEEP AND SOME I SELL - but I DO think that if I attempt to sell something worth $1000 and someone knows I paid $5 for it - they would be inclined to offer a lower price- I know that I would.

I thank you for your response and i will post some close ups on the points today.

ideologist · Jan 31, 2020

mikemosconi said:
To answer some of your questions:

1. The height of the points had me wondering about the blank since other Palmers I have seen had shorter points and I had read the Szamboti points on Palmers came up higher than others. I also thought that Szamboti used those veneer colors for Palmer cues at times. Also, this cue plays different ( better than other Palmers from my experience- a crisper hit- maybe the ebony? Also, this cue was from early in the third catalog by the imprint on the buttcap, did not know Adam contributed to early 70s Palmers.

2. By most older cues not being perfect- I was referring to the straightness of the cue- especially the shafts. I have never seen 50 year old cues with perfectly straight original shafts- maybe they do exist. These shafts are very clean, like new clean, full 13mm and 12 inch pro taper, but slight wobble.

3. As for price paid- I mentioned that I am keeping this cue- not for sale- but I do sell cues at times, what does what I paid for it have to do with showing a garage sale find? I once paid $3 at a garage sale for a mint Palmer custom cue from the PB catalog, a $400 billiard chair, and a $300 billiard cue rack - about $1200 worth of billiard equipment. I have had other similar finds in cues, watches, golf equip. cameras, ivory tusks, antiques clocks, musical instruments; you name it- Garage sales have been a hobby and sometimes side business for me for 25 years. I have never paid more than $100 for any item. Some I KEEP AND SOME I SELL - but I DO think that if I attempt to sell something worth $1000 and someone knows I paid $5 for it - they would be inclined to offer a lower price- I know that I would.

I thank you for your response and i will post some close ups on the points today.

It's still an Adam forearm, looks like a nice little player

mikemosconi · Jan 31, 2020

Thanks for the response. I feel now that I have confirmation on that point ( no pun intended). It is just good to know, as one who appreciates cues, what you have or what you don't have. I never intended to sell this particular cue, as I regret not having the other Palmers I once owned. I'll leave this one to my sons, as they are some of the few 30 year olds who know about cue history and appreciate the significance of my custom cue collection. This is a rare Palmer from one of the first three catalogs, so that, in and of itself, gives it great value to me, as well as the fantastic original condition of the cue and a mint Palmer Deluxe case to boot!

sonny burnett · Feb 3, 2020

It's not like an Adam blank is a bad thing for a player. I prefer them to most anything current production.

Nice find!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

stryper · Dec 21, 2020

Interesting thread ya'll had here, informative also...

maha · Dec 22, 2020

even say he paid 20 bucks for it. and obviously he got a good deal at a rummage sale. but it doesnt matter. when he sells it if he ever does, he is entitled to get full market value.

what you paid for something has no bearing on what you should or can sell it for.

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