Stan shuffet and cte pro one

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BC21

BC21

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hogie583 said:
Brain try this. 5balls touching within a 15 perception line them up and sticker them.then sticker the cb ob two diamonds away from pocket. Clear your mind of all math and just focus on the process. Feet placement! Get your visuals at ball address it will be crystal clear! Cue ball should be 2 to 3 diamonds from ob! Stick with the half table shots. This is very important. Dont want to bite off more than you can chew at this point. Two lines show ccb... instead of manual pivot let your eyes rotate from the very top of ccb... like find your ccb on top dead center... all while standing up and back foot on cte line. From here step in with your left foot while your eyes rotate leftward AROUND top dead center of cue ball for a right cut at the every ball location the needs a left sweep. Dont over think it. Let your eyes rotate around top dead center so your left foot follows/flows into place. It should feel very natural stepping in... your going to get to a point the leftward rotation will not work shot needs to be thinned...so rotate from top dead ccb to right the with your feet. You will feel your rotations around ccb with your feet. When done correctly it will feel very natural. Your eyes lead and your body/feet follows. Repeat the process. It might take an hour. It wont even feel like a pivot! Question are you picking up ccb from the face of cb or very top? Try this for me. Just line the very first shot of the 5 to the point on the pocket so its a slight cut to the right. Shoot this shot over and over. Step into the shot with your left foot in such a way it allows you to rotate around top dead center cue ball to the left ever so slightly thats the pivot! Forget the math! Your eyes will guide your body.. just try this out! Even if your bridge might feel funny just stroke the shot learn from the shot. Adjust the way your feet come into the shot rather than your bridge. For me i found at times i would manual pivot and i would over rotate while stepping straight into the shot naturally another words it was hard for me to walk striaght in to ccb and then pivot to shot line ccb. If you know Cte then you should understand what i just described all of it. You will notice that there is very little pivot its a very natural flow to ccb the shot line. If you can do this you've just performed a version of the Pro 1 sweep. Stan might explain it different im sure he will. My journey of cte has taught me some things that might help others out until the book and video comes out. This is all im going to offer the steps above. They are mine refined to me and my style to get me on the shot line. They might differ from your Journey of cte. Stan has set a really good base line up for cte. You gotta do the work and learn from each and every shot. Very important stick to half table shots... if your visuals are not right you will never ever get it! If you over rotate you will never get it... if you cant focus on ccb you will never get. All these steps can be done by anyone who truly tries. As you progress then and only then you really understand what's going on at the table and how these perceptions lock you into the pocket. We all step into shots differently well for me ive used stans approach as a baseline. I line my eyes and back foot then I step into the shot rotating around Center cue ball. This is my assumption of what's to come. Stan's going to lay out a foundation which he already has. it's going to be more refined in his book. He's going to help you get on the shot line and you're going to have to listen to your body /eyes to do it. Until then try some of the things ive learned it just might help you until the book comes out. I've learned all this from Stan DVDs and all his YouTube videos you can too! Just pay attention!
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I'm not interested in the sweeps, as they seem to be more feel/experienced based than manual pivots. I mean, I can just look at a shot and know where to aim, so I'm not sure if my "sweeps" are really nothing but my natural feel method kicking in and taking over. I understand the idea that the center of the CB is the intersecting point between the initial CCB as viewed from the perception and the final CCB following the pivot. I'm also aware that that is more complicated because it requires much more player judgement.

After watching one of Stan's latest vids ("Three-Quarter Fractional Alignment Contrast to the CTE 15") I noticed something different, unlike any other video instruction I've seen for a 15 Perception. Instead of ETC and CTE lines, he gets his perception with ETC and center CB to "one tick past this left quarter line" on the OB. This changes things. So I'll have to redo a few of my sketches for the 15.

My biggest question is, with a slightly different perception now (using a tighter 15 than before), how was the 15 so accurate before this change? Or is this change only for certain shots?
 
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hogie583

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My biggest question is, with a slightly different perception now (using a tighter 15 than before), how was the 15 so accurate before this change? Or is this change only for certain shots?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what your question is... can you give me a time on that video? Also remember this is a contrast video between the two... not really a how to instructional!
 
BC21

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hogie583 said:
from BC21: My biggest question is, with a slightly different perception now (using a tighter 15 than before), how was the 15 so accurate before this change? Or is this change only for certain shots?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your question is... can you give me a time on that video? Also remember this is a contrast video between the two... not really a how to instructional!
Click to expand...

It's here:

https://youtu.be/Lrs0aWd9TD4?t=58s

He is using different 15° perception lines than I've seen in previous videos. The contrast is between a 3/4 fractional aim and a 15° CTE perception. But it's not the same 15 perception. That brings the obvious question of how CTE users over the last 10 years have successfully used a different 15° perception and somehow developed accuracy with it...?

I was also confused later in the vid when he says in order to use the one-line fractional approach a player has to imagine a line going from the right edge of the CB diagonally to a spot on the OB, from outside to in. That's incorrect. A 3/4 fractional aim is not lined from the edge of the CB. It's lined from center CB to the 3/4 aim point (halfway between center and edge of OB), which is not difficult to imagine. I'm sure Stan knows this, so I don't understand why he would say what he says here....https://youtu.be/Lrs0aWd9TD4?t=185s
 
nobcitypool

nobcitypool

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BC21 said:
It's here:

https://youtu.be/Lrs0aWd9TD4?t=58s


I was also confused later in the vid when he says in order to use the one-line fractional approach a player has to imagine a line going from the right edge of the CB diagonally to a spot on the OB, from outside to in. That's incorrect. A 3/4 fractional aim is not lined from the edge of the CB. It's lined from center CB to the 3/4 aim point (halfway between center and edge of OB), which is not difficult to imagine. I'm sure Stan knows this, so I don't understand why he would say what he says here....https://youtu.be/Lrs0aWd9TD4?t=185s
Click to expand...

Isn't it plausible or possible to use fractional aiming with an edge instead of center? Perhaps he was saying to line up the edge of the CB to the 1/4 spot on the OB. Not sure.
 
BC21

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nobcitypool said:
Isn't it plausible or possible to use fractional aiming with an edge instead of center? Perhaps he was saying to line up the edge of the CB to the 1/4 spot on the OB. Not sure.
Click to expand...

Yes, you could do that, and it would be tough to visualize. The fractional relationship between the balls at impact is based on centerlines. I've never seen anyone try to use edges for this. Regardless, lining the right edge of the CB to the left quarter spot on the OB would result in a 1/4 ball fractional hit, not a 3/4 hit. It's more likely that Stan, shooting the video from the hip, made a simple mistake in saying what he said. I'd say, like myself, he doesn't script his videos, and it's easy to rush through and and say wrong things. Then later you watch it back and realize your mistakes but let them ride instead of doing a retake. In one of my videos I call a long rail bank a "short" rail bank, knowing full well the difference.
 
8pack

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I think the only way you get a true frantically hit using the edge is with a parrell shift to center.
 
BC21

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8pack said:
I think the only way you get a true frantically hit using the edge is with a parrell shift to center.
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That's a good method to use when the center CB aim point is farther out from the OB edge, like a 1/4 or 1/8 fractional hit, and the balls are within a couple of feet of each other. Beyond that the shift should be more tapered than parallel, because the OB looks smaller as it gets farther away.
 
Mkindsv

Mkindsv

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nobcitypool said:
You seem like a reasonably decent guy. I think you would benefit from focusing on the merits of your own aiming book and refrain from any negativity towards Stan, at least until you have some reasonable understanding of CTE. It's clear from many of your questions you are totally uninformed with respect to CTE.
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And is this attitude towards any questions presented not the crux of the CTE matter?

You are obviously uninformed about CTE...so you shouldn't ask any questions about it....SOOOO learn it first, completely before you ask any questions??? Logic dictates that you learn about something you do not know about by asking questions.
 
Mkindsv

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To be honest, I have never played anyone claiming to be using CTE, would be interesting and fun to pick their brain I think. I have had people tell me they were using TOI, many that have been encouraged by Tor Lowry's efforts (to include myself), some that swear by DR Dave and even some that claimed to be using the shaft method or back of the ball...the best player I have ever played uses strictly feel, routinely runs racks in under 2 minutes and speaks of the game as if it were equal parts art, passion and love...his attitude is mesmerizing, I hope to one day emulate this attitude towards this great past-time.
 
BC21

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Mkindsv said:
To be honest, I have never played anyone claiming to be using CTE, would be interesting and fun to pick their brain I think. I have had people tell me they were using TOI, many that have been encouraged by Tor Lowry's efforts (to include myself), some that swear by DR Dave and even some that claimed to be using the shaft method or back of the ball...the best player I have ever played uses strictly feel, routinely runs racks in under 2 minutes and speaks of the game as if it were equal parts art, passion and love...his attitude is mesmerizing, I hope to one day emulate this attitude towards this great past-time.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the proper attitude and approach to the game :thumbup:
 
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Neil

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Mkindsv said:
And is this attitude towards any questions presented not the crux of the CTE matter?

You are obviously uninformed about CTE...so you shouldn't ask any questions about it....SOOOO learn it first, completely before you ask any questions??? Logic dictates that you learn about something you do not know about by asking questions.
Click to expand...

No, it is not. There have been many that have been helped on here. Some of us have gone well out of our way to help. Even to guys like Brian and Dan.

The problem is guys that continue to ask the same questions over and over after being given the answer numerous times. It's not the asking, but the how they ask. They don't ask with a true desire to learn, but instead ask with a desire to nitpick and scoff. This becomes very evident by the questions asked, and the way they are worded.
 
BC21

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Neil said:
No, it is not. There have been many that have been helped on here. Some of us have gone well out of our way to help. Even to guys like Brian and Dan.

The problem is guys that continue to ask the same questions over and over after being given the answer numerous times. It's not the asking, but the how they ask. They don't ask with a true desire to learn, but instead ask with a desire to nitpick and scoff. This becomes very evident by the questions asked, and the way they are worded.
Click to expand...

I am finished with questions. After Stan's latest videos, and going back to look at the 5 shots video, and thoroughly reading the info on Mohrt's website, I have learned enough to satisfy my curiosity, including the math that produces the various angles.

One odd thing in that 5 shots video is Stan says all 5 shots can be made with a 15-inside and a consistent pivot. That's simply not possible. The first shot with a 15-inside over-cuts the ball considerably. I find that the 15 perception puts me right on the proper CCB with no need for thinning or thickening. This makes sense, considering that a 15-inside creates the same cut angle as a 30-outside, and there's no way a 30-outside will make that ball without throwing it several degrees with a good stun shot. So 15-inside is too thin, while 15-outside is too thick. But the initial CCB I get from my perception lines is just right. It's one of those shots that I was questioning when I was told that there is always a pivot when using CTE. But I've found that there is a point where a 15-inside cuts the ball too much and a 15-outside doesn't cut it enough.
 
nobcitypool

nobcitypool

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Mkindsv said:
And is this attitude towards any questions presented not the crux of the CTE matter?

You are obviously uninformed about CTE...so you shouldn't ask any questions about it....SOOOO learn it first, completely before you ask any questions??? Logic dictates that you learn about something you do not know about by asking questions.
Click to expand...

There is a significant difference between genuinely asking questions to learn and questioning aspects of the system only in an effort to troll. Unfortunately I cannot do much to help with you understanding that since it apparently soared well over the top of your head.
 
cookie man

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BC21 said:
I am finished with questions. After Stan's latest videos, and going back to look at the 5 shots video, and thoroughly reading the info on Mohrt's website, I have learned enough to satisfy my curiosity, including the math that produces the various angles.

One odd thing in that 5 shots video is Stan says all 5 shots can be made with a 15-inside and a consistent pivot. That's simply not possible. The first shot with a 15-inside over-cuts the ball considerably. I find that the 15 perception puts me right on the proper CCB with no need for thinning or thickening. This makes sense, considering that a 15-inside creates the same cut angle as a 30-outside, and there's no way a 30-outside will make that ball without throwing it several degrees with a good stun shot. So 15-inside is too thin, while 15-outside is too thick. But the initial CCB I get from my perception lines is just right. It's one of those shots that I was questioning when I was told that there is always a pivot when using CTE. But I've found that there is a point where a 15-inside cuts the ball too much and a 15-outside doesn't cut it enough.
Click to expand...

You are way off base with your assessment. Totally wrong. It's why you should just wait for the book.
 
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Mirza

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BC21 said:
I am finished with questions. After Stan's latest videos, and going back to look at the 5 shots video, and thoroughly reading the info on Mohrt's website, I have learned enough to satisfy my curiosity, including the math that produces the various angles.

One odd thing in that 5 shots video is Stan says all 5 shots can be made with a 15-inside and a consistent pivot. That's simply not possible. The first shot with a 15-inside over-cuts the ball considerably. I find that the 15 perception puts me right on the proper CCB with no need for thinning or thickening. This makes sense, considering that a 15-inside creates the same cut angle as a 30-outside, and there's no way a 30-outside will make that ball without throwing it several degrees with a good stun shot. So 15-inside is too thin, while 15-outside is too thick. But the initial CCB I get from my perception lines is just right. It's one of those shots that I was questioning when I was told that there is always a pivot when using CTE. But I've found that there is a point where a 15-inside cuts the ball too much and a 15-outside doesn't cut it enough.
Click to expand...

When you get your CTE/edge-to-A visuals for those 5 shots, while standing, how does the CB overlap the OB, is it the same or different?
 
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Low500

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cookie man said:
You are way off base with your assessment. Totally wrong. It's why you should just wait for the book.
Click to expand...
My man, some of these fellas already had the conclusions to their questioning set in their minds before they ever started. That's the reality.
Their quest was not for learning facts, but to eventually be able to say to themselves..."I knew I was right all the time".
It's best to just let them go their merry way, using whatever methods and systems work for them.
Trying to assist them is a fruitless endeavor. All that results is a "back and forth...back and forth". And the outcome is usually the same
I heard one of the best pool players in the country, Jeremy Jones, last night commentating a match at Fleming's tournament. JJ was talking to Schuman about aiming. JJ said..."he believed the best aiming was done with his feet before getting into shooting position". He is really talking about ALIGNMENT. The feet can't see anything...the eyes do the seeing. The eyes LEAD and the body follows...no matter how a player aims a shot or what method/system he uses.
Old Brownie McGhee, a legendary blues singer, had some lines in one of his songs......"You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, you can send your children to school, but you can't make them think".
Stan has found that out also.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:
 
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BC21

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cookie man said:
You are way off base with your assessment. Totally wrong. It's why you should just wait for the book.
Click to expand...

What assessment? That a 15-inside is the same as a 30-outside? I hope I'm not wrong about that.
 
BC21

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Mirza said:
When you get your CTE/edge-to-A visuals for those 5 shots, while standing, how does the CB overlap the OB, is it the same or different?
Click to expand...

Considering that the perception lines are based on the relationship between the two balls as seen from a certain position behind the CB.....yes, using objective visuals I get the exact same overlap perspective when I address CCB inmmediately after getting both visual lines. The only time the perception changes my perspective of CB/OB relationship is when I change the distance between the CB and OB, which makes sense. As long the distance between the balls is constant, I always get the same results with any particular perception regardless of where the balls are in reference to the rails or pockets. The first shot is very close to 15°, and 15-perception with inside pivot thinks it up way too much. I could work with it for a while, tweaking the pivot or perception to match what works for the shot, but then I wouldn't be following instructions -- I'd be doing my own thing to make it work.
 
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paultex

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Low500 said:
:thumbup:
My man, some of these fellas already had the conclusions to their questioning set in their minds before they ever started. That's the reality.
Their quest was not for learning facts, but to eventually be able to say to themselves..."I knew I was right all the time".
It's best to just let them go their merry way, using whatever methods and systems work for them.
Trying to assist them is a fruitless endeavor. All that results is a "back and forth...back and forth". And the outcome is usually the same
I heard one of the best pool players in the country, Jeremy Jones, last night commentating a match at Fleming's tournament. JJ was talking to Schuman about aiming. JJ said..."he believed the best aiming was done with his feet before getting into shooting position". He is really talking about ALIGNMENT. The feet can't see anything...the eyes do the seeing. The eyes LEAD and the body follows...no matter how a player aims a shot or what method/system he uses.
Old Brownie McGhee, a legendary blues singer, had some lines in one of his songs......"You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, you can send your children to school, but you can't make them think".
Stan has found that out also.
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

The eyes lead and the body follows is correct and if Stan made up that saying, then more power to him and I agree with it.

BUT, he also has two different stances to set up the alignment for delivery.

You're speaking for JJ as if he is using a method similar to the concept of CTE or a pure visual system and I know for a fact that you can step on or near the shotline in such a way that sets up your mechanics first, way before the visual even makes sense, if you are trying to put a heavy angular bias on your delivery angle.

You can speak for Stan, but you can't speak for "aiming" unless, and I'll use the ever popular line of "unless you try it for yourself" and I will not venture to say you will or won't, but perhaps you are closed minded.

JJ is right and it should suggest or leave a door open as to method and that discussion should always be left open. So, the assertions of others and the CTE'ers heresy is not their imagination.

I got one question for anyone qualified to answer, is CTE and the big secret that will be revealed in the book......is it provable math or is it voodoo?

I got no problems with either one because I believe you don't have to see a shot clearly to execute a particular effect, but alignment itself can never be ruled out and there's no question it starts or can start from the feet.

Have a nice day and thanks.
 
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