16 Pro Player Invite Only Tour

16 player tour

Johnnyt said:

The more I think of the 16 man pro player invite only tour, the more possibilities I can see coming out of it. When the 16 man tour shows it will work for players and promoters both, many things can grow from it. You can add a few more players a little at a time until you have 32. With 16 players 2 8 player ring games a few times a year. Also you can split the 16 into 4 man teams a few times a year. You can also have 8 doubles teams a few times a year. Lastly you can draw two guys for TAR type match ups when ever the time and the players have a grudge between each other. There are other ways to use the 16 pro players I'm sure. Johnnyt

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Johnnyt,
I agree in that pool is a spectator sport. People want to see it. A small pro tour, charge admission to see it up close and personal. Now you have to have a place for it. Seating and vendors...now you have a Tradeshow. Now you have problems galore. You need a lot of stuff to do that, people to put up money etc etc.

I think Pool Rooms need to be constructed in order to provide the venue for such events, that would solve a whole lot of problems.

I dunno Johnny, not a bad idea, but the first thing that came to my mind was if rotation wasn't redundant enough, watching it with the same 16 players would be too much.

Maybe that's just me. For me even a game like 8 ball would be better.

I just had a thought reading this thread.......

Allow me to add my thoughts and ideas. Keeping the OPs original thought and adding a twist.

In addition to the 16 player invitational field, why not make each stop a 32 player tournament field. Where do the other 16 players come from you ask. Simple, in the weeks before the visit at that particular location, have a series of qualifier tournaments for the local talent to compete for positions to join the field of pros'. Taking the top 4 from 4 separate qualifying events held in the previous weeks leading up to the main tournament.

In my opinion, everybody wins here. The local talent gets the opportunity to rub shoulders and compete with the pro's. The room owner gets the added revenue generated from not just the one single main event, but also the previous weeks leading to that main event.The qualifier tournaments entry fees build up prize money for the main event making it attractive for the traveling pro's.

This must be streamed for free to entice growing support from all over. It offers people the chance to see talent they otherwise would never have had the chance to discover before. Try to get some trade industry involved in the deal as much as possible and are willing to contribute or advertise with.

Everybody wins here with the exception of the possibility of some pro's getting bruised egos from some of the local undiscovered talent that's in every town. It nearly eliminates the cost of travel for the local talent, as the tournament trail comes to them. In most cases the qualifying players would more than likely be beat out of the competition anyways, unless there is a truly strong local lurking waiting to get discovered.

Or, is this a really, really bad idea and I should go to bed......

Dopc.

3andstop said:

I.... came to my mind was if rotation wasn't redundant enough, watching it with the same 16 players would be too much.

Click to expand...

Kinda like watching the same 40 NASCAR drivers race every weekend from February to November? Whole lot of people seem to dig that.

People need to get to know players in order to give a shit if they win or lose. Its hard to do that in 64-128 man fields. Once you had a 16 man structure in place you could do any thing with it. This week we play a one pocket event. Next week is ten ball. Whatever. If people will pay attention to whatever you are doing then it means there are options.

The days of big events are coming to end. No one makes any money at them. Players or promoters. And the last year has made some of the people who do them decide the juice just isnt worth the squeeze anymore. That means shit is going to change. I want to see it create the seed of something that can grow. Otherwise its all gonna be $2000 added regional events with a couple of invitationals and the odd week long tournament. No structure. No future. No growth.

I have been working on the 16 man idea for several years. It makes lots of sense. There are the same problems you always have with regard to money, logistics and schedule but with a small field they are much more manageable.. Honestly one of the biggest problems for me deciding how much time and effort I want to invest in it is the question of what happens if it actually got off the ground and it starts to work? According to history the players will then screw things up. I like to think that could be addressed before hand but honestly I don't know if it would be worth all the trouble.

If there is no structure then there is nothing. How do you get a self sustaining structure? Soon as that happens there will be a shot.

IMO of course.

Dopc said:

Allow me to add my thoughts and ideas. Keeping the OPs original thought and adding a twist.

In addition to the 16 player invitational field, why not make each stop a 32 player tournament field. Where do the other 16 players come from you ask. Simple, in the weeks before the visit at that particular location, have a series of qualifier tournaments for the local talent to compete for positions to join the field of pros'. Taking the top 4 from 4 separate qualifying events held in the previous weeks leading up to the main tournament.

In my opinion, everybody wins here. The local talent gets the opportunity to rub shoulders and compete with the pro's. The room owner gets the added revenue generated from not just the one single main event, but also the previous weeks leading to that main event.The qualifier tournaments entry fees build up prize money for the main event making it attractive for the traveling pro's.

This must be streamed for free to entice growing support from all over. It offers people the chance to see talent they otherwise would never have had the chance to discover before. Try to get some trade industry involved in the deal as much as possible and are willing to contribute or advertise with.

Everybody wins here with the exception of the possibility of some pro's getting bruised egos from some of the local undiscovered talent that's in every town. It nearly eliminates the cost of travel for the local talent, as the tournament trail comes to them. In most cases the qualifying players would more than likely be beat out of the competition anyways, unless there is a truly strong local lurking waiting to get discovered.

Or, is this a really, really bad idea and I should go to bed......

Dopc.

Click to expand...

Its a good idea.

I have spent years thinking about the same type of thing. Small field events offer so many more options for all involved. It doesnt take long to see how a 16 man structure can grow and be modified into so much more in just a few seasons if it starts to get legs.

Does not matter, I guess.

Seems like a viable idea, any exposure helps some, but if the ultimate goal is to popularize pool on a large scale, then I truly believe THE WAY is to somehow start in the school system with 5th grade and up.

If that could be done somehow, the game would explode with popularity in no time as would sales of all paraphernalia. I'm talking months and the game would see a major boon.

That's the ticket, any other way and we'd probably only reach a few new people and a lot of pool "already" pool lovers.

edit**** And I just as strongly believe the game would have to be 8 ball, not the favorite amongst us hardcores ... but never-the-less the game most familiar to all.

Johnnyt said:

The more I think of the 16 man pro player invite only tour, the more possibilities I can see coming out of it. When the 16 man tour shows it will work for players and promoters both, many things can grow from it. You can add a few more players a little at a time until you have 32. With 16 players 2 8 player ring games a few times a year. Also you can split the 16 into 4 man teams a few times a year. You can also have 8 doubles teams a few times a year. Lastly you can draw two guys for TAR type match ups when ever the time and the players have a grudge between each other. There are other ways to use the 16 pro players I'm sure. Johnnyt

Click to expand...

Sort of like a traveling show, same acts different towns. Carefully managed there would actually be some money in this. Done on a small scale the events can be held in pool rooms that have the ability to accommodate them. Unlike a carnival or circus that travels together, travel expenses would present the biggest problem. Lets be honest, pool, just as ESPN termed it, is really an exhibition sport. No one really cares who wins or loses they just want to see the game played. Same thing as a rodeo, it is just the same show put on in a different town.
To be honest, any four pro players could take an act on the road playing each other. It was done a 100 years ago. and could still work.

3andstop said:

Seems like a viable idea, any exposure helps some, but if the ultimate goal is to popularize pool on a large scale, then I truly believe THE WAY is to somehow start in the school system with 5th grade and up.

If that could be done somehow, the game would explode with popularity in no time as would sales of all paraphernalia. I'm talking months and the game would see a major boon.

That's the ticket, any other way and we'd probably only reach a few new people and a lot of pool "already" pool lovers.

edit**** And I just as strongly believe the game would have to be 8 ball, not the favorite amongst us hardcores ... but never-the-less the game most familiar to all.

Click to expand...

I don't really think popularizing pool is the goal. Making a few dollars for some players is the goal and what ever positive benefits pool gains from it are just side effects. It can be combined with other activities as well. Have local celebs. come. Often the local weather person or news people are are some of the most well know locals. It has to be a happening event even beyond the pool. It also need a lot of well done advance work before they arrive.

What's up Justin? Hope all is good my boy. Tony Robles uses that format on the Predator tour Open/Pro events. There are times that he opens it up to 32 players, but for the most part he limits it to 16. It seems to work really well and the event usually runs really smooth. Good luck with it Justin. I'm sure you will make whatever you set out to do work. Have a great weekend!

Ron Mason

JCIN said:

Kinda like watching the same 40 NASCAR drivers race every weekend from February to November? Whole lot of people seem to dig that.

People need to get to know players in order to give a shit if they win or lose. Its hard to do that in 64-128 man fields. Once you had a 16 man structure in place you could do any thing with it. This week we play a one pocket event. Next week is ten ball. Whatever. If people will pay attention to whatever you are doing then it means there are options.

The days of big events are coming to end. No one makes any money at them. Players or promoters. And the last year has made some of the people who do them decide the juice just isnt worth the squeeze anymore. That means shit is going to change. I want to see it create the seed of something that can grow. Otherwise its all gonna be $2000 added regional events with a couple of invitationals and the odd week long tournament. No structure. No future. No growth.

I have been working on the 16 man idea for several years. It makes lots of sense. There are the same problems you always have with regard to money, logistics and schedule but with a small field they are much more manageable.. Honestly one of the biggest problems for me deciding how much time and effort I want to invest in it is the question of what happens if it actually got off the ground and it starts to work? According to history the players will then screw things up. I like to think that could be addressed before hand but honestly I don't know if it would be worth all the trouble.

If there is no structure then there is nothing. How do you get a self sustaining structure? Soon as that happens there will be a shot.

IMO of course.

Click to expand...

JCIN said:

Kinda like watching the same 40 NASCAR drivers race every weekend from February to November? Whole lot of people seem to dig that.

People need to get to know players in order to give a shit if they win or lose. Its hard to do that in 64-128 man fields. Once you had a 16 man structure in place you could do any thing with it. This week we play a one pocket event. Next week is ten ball. Whatever. If people will pay attention to whatever you are doing then it means there are options.

The days of big events are coming to end. No one makes any money at them. Players or promoters. And the last year has made some of the people who do them decide the juice just isnt worth the squeeze anymore. That means shit is going to change. I want to see it create the seed of something that can grow. Otherwise its all gonna be $2000 added regional events with a couple of invitationals and the odd week long tournament. No structure. No future. No growth.

I have been working on the 16 man idea for several years. It makes lots of sense. There are the same problems you always have with regard to money, logistics and schedule but with a small field they are much more manageable.. Honestly one of the biggest problems for me deciding how much time and effort I want to invest in it is the question of what happens if it actually got off the ground and it starts to work? According to history the players will then screw things up. I like to think that could be addressed before hand but honestly I don't know if it would be worth all the trouble.

If there is no structure then there is nothing. How do you get a self sustaining structure? Soon as that happens there will be a shot.

IMO of course.

Click to expand...

16 man 24 at most is the only way to go period..will make players hungry again also.Smaller fields equals bigger pay days..In order to make the cut u have to want it.Plus as u say its way easier to identify with 16 players..Pick ur favorite and hope he makes the cut..This is the only way to go..Make it happen and give me my position passing out flyers..

336Robin said:

Johnnyt,
I agree in that pool is a spectator sport. People want to see it. A small pro tour, charge admission to see it up close and personal. Now you have to have a place for it. Seating and vendors...now you have a Tradeshow. Now you have problems galore. You need a lot of stuff to do that, people to put up money etc etc.

I think Pool Rooms need to be constructed in order to provide the venue for such events, that would solve a whole lot of problems.

Click to expand...

There are basketball gyms & small sports facilities all over the country. The table set up & take down would be the only issue.

Just a thought.

Best,
Rick

I agree. This is my post cut and pasted from another one of Johnny's threads :

I think we as fans want to see the best of the best play. We don't care to see the local hero (unless he is local to us) play Corey or Archer or Busty.... We want to see Corey play Archer, and Archer play Busty, and every match in a tournament be of that caliber.

I say cut out the 64 and 128 man fields that are fluff. The current model is the fluff pays for the top guys that cash. But the fans don't care about the fluff, they only watch the big guys. Make the whole tournament ONLY the big guys. Make it limited to 16 players for now. If the whole sport grows, open it to 32 players. But today, I think it can only support 16 players.

A few entities are doing this now:

1. TAR with their one on one action matches of the big guys
2. Accu-Stats with their Make it Happen events of only the big guys
3. Diamond with their Big Foot events, that, via the $1000 entry fee, only the big guys enter
4. Griffin is hinting towards doing the same thing on his latest podcast, only having a specific small number of handpicked guys to be in his pro events.

Call this 16 player field the pro tour.

If it takes off, you can have qualifiers for it. Joe Tuckers ABC league can be the qualifier. The top finishers in his national championship can take future spots that open up in the filed of 16. Every year, the bottom quarter performers of the "pro tour" are replaced by the top performers on Tucker's ABC tour.

Or, have a system like Glen is talking about to determine who is in or out.


You can easily just vote in the top 16 in the first year or two, we all know who they are.

But the main point is, however you get the top 16 guys, is to make a product that is marketable to the fans, and the sponsors. The fans don't care about Joe Shmo. The fans want to see the top guys, and that's it. And if the fans show up, there is a tiny chance the sponsors will too, and then the whole thing grows.

This whole line of thinking requires breaking out of the current paradigm we are in, of large fields filled with fluff.

My railbird 3 cents

Johnnyt said:

The more I think of the 16 man pro player invite only tour, the more possibilities I can see coming out of it. When the 16 man tour shows it will work for players and promoters both, many things can grow from it. You can add a few more players a little at a time until you have 32. With 16 players 2 8 player ring games a few times a year. Also you can split the 16 into 4 man teams a few times a year. You can also have 8 doubles teams a few times a year. Lastly you can draw two guys for TAR type match ups when ever the time and the players have a grudge between each other. There are other ways to use the 16 pro players I'm sure. Johnnyt

Click to expand...

Think streaming whole events may not be needed but i'd say 64 for the field , at the end of tour bottom 32 drop and hold a couple of large field qualifying tournaments to replace the 32 that dropped at beginning of new tour season . You'll need fewer tables and it could be played in small venues . You will end up with a lot of belly aching , charges of favoritism and competitors . Nice thought though JT .

Who would be the chosen 16?

Would they have to reside in the states to qualify?

Would there be a standby list?

Whats the game? I'm assuming call shot/10 ball?

How do you keep your exemption?

Assuming you have to be a resident of the US...here is my 16.

Shane/Archer/Dechaine/Morris/Shuff/Strickland/Thorsten/Mika/Appleton/Hatch
Stevie Moore/Putnam/Nevel/Cory/Daulton/Oscar

Johnnyt said:

The more I think of the 16 man pro player invite only tour, the more possibilities I can see coming out of it. When the 16 man tour shows it will work for players and promoters both, many things can grow from it. You can add a few more players a little at a time until you have 32. With 16 players 2 8 player ring games a few times a year. Also you can split the 16 into 4 man teams a few times a year. You can also have 8 doubles teams a few times a year. Lastly you can draw two guys for TAR type match ups when ever the time and the players have a grudge between each other. There are other ways to use the 16 pro players I'm sure. Johnnyt

Click to expand...

Who would play who in what game. Do you go Jeanette lee and Thorsten in 9 ball. Then do Shane and the Rocket for 10 ball, and those kind of match up's? Or just one game and all 16 in a bracket set up. Do you coordinate it with current tours since some players are already there or do you do it separate.