True That! It shows CJ's commitment to keeping his word. He was on the hook for that 50K until the settlement came in and reimbursed him.
P.S. It helped that CJ came from a wealthy family.
Million Dollar Challenge Documentary
- Thread starter JD_Hogg
- Start date
True That! It shows CJ's commitment to keeping his word. He was on the hook for that 50K until the settlement came in and reimbursed him.
P.S. It helped that CJ came from a wealthy family.
I have the cue that CJ used to win that tournament. It is in original condition from that tournament and still has the same tip on it.
I can't view that video on my computer. All I can tell you is the truth. If you want fake news look elsewhere. Perhaps CJ edited the tape somehow. That I don't know. What I do know is that I racked #7-11 racks. Earl may have grabbed the rack one time and tried to rack again but I stopped him. With all due respect of course.
Well, what can I say Jay... I gave a rack-by-rack account based on what I had seen in the video. If you think CJ edited it, then my post would obviously be incomplete. It does not look like someone did anything to the video, though (at least, to my undiscerning eye).
Further, as far as I understand, the racks 1-5 were not taped which means that potentially only one rack could have been edited out (as there are seven racks between 6 and 12 and only 6 racks on the video). Given that Earl made the 9 on the break in both of the first two racks of the video, at least one of those racks would have been racked by you however you slice it. I really admire your ability to give accurate accounts of events of the distant past, just sometimes we all seem to be relying on our memory a bit too much, don't we ?
I would post up the whole video but I don't have the copyrights so only with CJ's express consent.
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I've looked up CJ's website and he currently sells this DVD for $14.95 shipped which I find very reasonable. I think I got it from Seyberts or Bob Henning (don't remember which) for $30. I guess it all depends how badly you want to see it.
As I said, I would love to post it up but I don't own the copyright.
Well, what can I say Jay... I gave a rack-by-rack account based on what I had seen in the video. If you think CJ edited it, then my post would obviously be incomplete. It does not look like someone did anything to the video, though (at least, to my undiscerning eye).
Further, as far as I understand, the racks 1-5 were not taped which means that potentially only one rack could have been edited out (as there are seven racks between 6 and 12 and only 6 racks on the video). Given that Earl made the 9 on the break in both of the first two racks of the video, at least one of those racks would have been racked by you however you slice it. I really admire your ability to give accurate accounts of events of the distant past, just sometimes we all seem to be relying on our memory a bit too much, don't we ?
I would post up the whole video but I don't have the copyrights so only with CJ's express consent.
Racks 1-6 were not taped. I didn't see racks 1-5, but I was told he made the nine twice on the break. He came close on rack 6 so I made sure to get all the balls tight when I racked them. Only on one break did the nine go close to the corner pocket, stopping maybe 4-5 inches away. I'm still 99% sure he did not make the nine ball on any one of my racks. I will look at the video again later since I have a copy.
This is consistent with other accounts (e.g. of Bill Meacham for P&B magazine that Earl made the nine in racks 2 and 4). However, he also made the nine in racks 6, 7, and 8. One can see racks 7 and 8 on the video, which I'm sure you will soon confirm once you have looked at it, and also someone made a comment at the end of rack 7 (likely, Angela Wiley, who was taping the match or someone sitting next to her, as the voice is very clear so must have been close to the camera) that this is the 4th rack (and two in a row) with the nine going on the break which suggests that Earl also made the nine in rack 6.
It is also quite clear that the first two racks are racks 7 and 8 as someone made a comment at the end of the second taped rack "eight down, two to go".
I'm sorry to be a pain Jay. I'm not trying to catch you out on anything here, I just want to approach this as a historian would, by corroborating evidence and reconstructing the events as this is possibly a one-in-a-lifetime event that would be part of the pool history for years to come and I'm sure you will agree it is important that we all have a clear account of what happened.
I hope no hard feelings. No one (certainly, I don't) expects you to remember all of the details of what happened over 23 years ago given how many events you have organised, refereed, and promoted before or since.
Take care
The most accurate rack-by-rack accounting was provided by Billiards Digest (they just mixed up racks 8 and 9 - Earl sank the nine on the break in rack 8 and broke & ran in rack 9). Here is the full article from June 1996.
Attachments
Is this the greatest single occurrence in pro pool? I think it may well be.
Up for consideration:
526,
626,
IPT winners (IMO, Hohmann's was bestest, followed by Efren's, then Sigel's)
Efren's DCC domination ( y2k?)
What else you got?
Up for consideration:
526,
626,
IPT winners (IMO, Hohmann's was bestest, followed by Efren's, then Sigel's)
Efren's DCC domination ( y2k?)
What else you got?
Efren's One Pocket at DCC
A fit thread to revive although I am not so sure about the reason for reviving it.
While it isn't a single feat, I think Efren's one pocket dominance at DCC might be the greatest thing in pool. The odds of coming through that size of field in short short races over and over are ridiculously long I would think. Seems like somebody else would get lucky when the entire field saw him as the man to beat.
Speaking of odds, I wonder what Earl's real odds were? The 5.6 or 5.8 million to one odds aren't true, that would apply if nine ball was a game of chance. With skill being a major factor, the odds have to be quite a bit different I would think.
For example, had Earl put the kind of time and effort into running nine ball racks that john put into breaking Willie's record, how many times would Earl have ran ten or eleven racks? What would his high run of racks have been? We will never know because Earl never had the incentive to duplicate his feat. A lot like Willie, I think the 526 broke his own record, no real point of running the record up over and over. Had someone broken his record during his playing days, then I suspect Willie would have bumped it again.
This is about Earl, and Earl obviously at least had that million in mind as did every other player there no matter how unlikely it was. Earl prepared to go for the million before the event, we can only wonder how much effort he put in. Not implying cheating or rigged racks, any other corners cut, I just wonder how many times he battled the ghost or played a zero safety style running up to that event. The level of Earl's focus was truly awesome then, still is when he can maintain it. Sheer force of will is one reason for his success. Could anyone else have held up to the pressure of a million dollars on the line for those last few racks? We will never know!
Hu
A fit thread to revive although I am not so sure about the reason for reviving it.
While it isn't a single feat, I think Efren's one pocket dominance at DCC might be the greatest thing in pool. The odds of coming through that size of field in short short races over and over are ridiculously long I would think. Seems like somebody else would get lucky when the entire field saw him as the man to beat.
Speaking of odds, I wonder what Earl's real odds were? The 5.6 or 5.8 million to one odds aren't true, that would apply if nine ball was a game of chance. With skill being a major factor, the odds have to be quite a bit different I would think.
For example, had Earl put the kind of time and effort into running nine ball racks that john put into breaking Willie's record, how many times would Earl have ran ten or eleven racks? What would his high run of racks have been? We will never know because Earl never had the incentive to duplicate his feat. A lot like Willie, I think the 526 broke his own record, no real point of running the record up over and over. Had someone broken his record during his playing days, then I suspect Willie would have bumped it again.
This is about Earl, and Earl obviously at least had that million in mind as did every other player there no matter how unlikely it was. Earl prepared to go for the million before the event, we can only wonder how much effort he put in. Not implying cheating or rigged racks, any other corners cut, I just wonder how many times he battled the ghost or played a zero safety style running up to that event. The level of Earl's focus was truly awesome then, still is when he can maintain it. Sheer force of will is one reason for his success. Could anyone else have held up to the pressure of a million dollars on the line for those last few racks? We will never know!
Hu
I don't want to be a pain either, but if you believe that he made the nine on the break in racks 6,7 and 8 you are DEAD WRONG! No hard feelings to you either. I'm just a getting a little tired of reading all this nonsense. I was there and you weren't! I remember a lot more than you think I do. :grinning-moose:
P.S. I have the DVD of the $1,000,000 Challenge that CJ put out there a few years back (where I am interviewed at length) and all the racks you talk about are not shown on it. I would like you to post the video you are referring too. Otherwise I will have to categorize your comments as total BS. I'm calling you out on your preposterous claims you are making on here, that you seem to be inflating with each successive post. I will contend that Earl did not make the nine ball on the break in any of the racks 6-11! In other words, SHOW US THE VIDEO!
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This isn’t quite up there but, an honorable mention for kaci running out the set against Alex at freezer’s. An 8 piece in 10 ball with a nice little swerve shot on the 1 after his last break. The way he was playing and breaking (template, true) I think he could’ve put a few more up easily.
A few pages back you can see it set up in a news paper article. You don’t get an awesome angle though.
With $1m on the line, I would say yes. I'm sure many pros would miss easy shots or mess up position under this sort of pressure.
I heard about Archer putting a 13-pack on Bustamante in a commercial match (I think it was for $5k in the middle). And what Bustie did after this barrage of potting from Archer ? He asked Johnny to raise a bet for the next set
I heard Archer had lost in the end. They both signed in spray the table they were playing on. Archer signed "13 pack" and Bustie countered with "The Winner". Just wonder whether there is a video of that match. Would love to see it.
However, this is nowhere near what Earl did given all of the pressure he was under.
The reason is very simple - to reconstruct what happened in that match (beyond a simple "Earl ran 11 racks for $1m"). There are so many people with different recollections as to what in fact happened so I felt in need to do so.
This thread does not mean to discount any other achievements in pool. I have a DVD of Efren's semis and finals matches from DCC 2006 - this is 90 minutes of pure awesomeness. Any student of the game should have it to see what perfection means.
However, I think this belongs to a different thread, e.g. "What is/are the greatest achievement/s in pool history?" which you are more than welcome to start if you wish so.
This thread is about The Million Dollar Challenge only.
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Jay, on that DVD, if you go to "Extras", the top left-hand side video will be what you are after. Let me know if you can't find it. Let's discuss further once you have seen the video. Thank you for taking time to reply to my posts.
There is a reconstruction of this shot on CJ's DVD. I will post a screenshot when I get home after work
I understand that 7.6 million comes from an average B&R probability of 20.5% so 1/0.205^10 = 7,628,891. This is fundamentally flawed from a statistical point of view due to a number of reasons (and I find it difficult to comprehend how a professor of statistics could have overlooked this):
- first, that probability assumes a chance to succeed in a single attempt. With the field of 40 players and races to 15 in a double elimination format, there is clearly more than one chance of success. The maximum number of matches is 79, with a maximum of 11 valid attempts per match (assuming no success at running a rack and losing a game by the breaker in each of the first 10 racks, so the score at that point would be tied at 5-5, and completing the feat by the player breaking in rack 11). I know it's an extreme scenario but it increases the odds dramatically, to 1 in 8,779 tournaments (not attempts). Even if we assume 2 attempts for each player (which is reasonable), this would result in the odds of 1 in 24,143 tournaments;
- second, the B&R percentage of 20.5% is understated as players under normal circs would not go for 30-40% shots. One needs to run a Monte Carlo simulation to work out percentages but if we were to assume that this would increase B&R to 30%, it suddenly makes it a 1 in 195 tournaments (under assumption of 11 attempts) and 1 in 536 tournaments (under assumption of 4 attempts).
I hope this helps.
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Which disc has "Extras"? I've got the set of three and don't know what/where you're referring to. UD:found it and am watching now. Hard to watch, quality is pretty bad.
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