Good advice here.
Gus Szamboti 70's
- Thread starter Logdog
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Good advice here.
I am comfortable with leaving a "little room" for the next guy but I think approx. $5,000 is a little too much to leave on the bone. I appreciate your point about when to sell, etc.... and as you said we all have an uncertain future. Thanks again for your valuable input.
I think the person that told you the cue was worth 18500 might have not known the value of the current cue market has become. It would have to be a true monster to get that type of cash. The cue is amazing however the people who can afford this type of cue dictate the market. You hold onto it to long you will not even get your current price. Trust me sell when you can and enjoy the rewards of passing on a great cue to someone who doesn't care what the value does after they buy it.
True monster? Please share a detailed example of what's the least a Gus cue can be to consided a "todays market 18k monster" in your eyes.
Skins --------- believes this cue IS an 18k "monster"...
batalarms
Ebony Hoppe Fanatic
I am old enough to have lived through many associates that 'held onto' cues because they thought it should be worth more.I stand with Sean,Ken and the guys that say take the money and run.My friends have held onto,Bushka's,Gus's Spains and more.They will never be worth what they were once offered.I could go on and cite many ,many cases like this.There is a reason that this saying has been around forever.
"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" Take the money and be VERY happy that you got 300 times the money that you invested.It works out to about $300.00 per year for storing the cue for 40 years.That oughta pay for your safe deposit box.Now you can afford your very own safe and security system.To the Op.You sound smart and reasonable in your comments/post,now don't be greedy.Greed is a strong and terrible emotion.Be strong.Get the cash while it is out there.Believe me,it will go away over time.Just my 2 cents.And good luck with that fine piece of pool history.
Marc
"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" Take the money and be VERY happy that you got 300 times the money that you invested.It works out to about $300.00 per year for storing the cue for 40 years.That oughta pay for your safe deposit box.Now you can afford your very own safe and security system.To the Op.You sound smart and reasonable in your comments/post,now don't be greedy.Greed is a strong and terrible emotion.Be strong.Get the cash while it is out there.Believe me,it will go away over time.Just my 2 cents.And good luck with that fine piece of pool history.
Marc
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I'd agree EXCEPT when you are talking Gus's cues as well as a few others. The market will remain like the stock market. Always fluctuating but they will survive the "Bear Markets" and maintain the high $. IMHO if he's young enough and wants to wait I think he'll get his money.
Plenty of times I paid "400".. Sometimes I got out high sometimes real high... All depended how long I wanted to wait. I will say I was happy both ways..
Kid Suspicious is correct again... as was Mr. P...
FTR the people I see that like to say a cue is much higher than the current market dictates have no intention of peeling for it....
Hence never let an alligator do an appraisal...
JV
FTR the people I see that like to say a cue is much higher than the current market dictates have no intention of peeling for it....
Hence never let an alligator do an appraisal...
JV
How does anyone really know the "current market" on high end collectibles if they dont have detailed records on comparable sales nor have a good way to let ALL potential buyers know their item is available?
Usually appraisals are given through the comparison of other comp sales completed at auction or know private sale. With collectible cues it can be very difficult due to the differences from item to item though.
Couple that with someone like myself who though may not have the $ to make a certain purchase now, would and have certainly worked hard to acquire specific items hoping they would still be available when Im ready. For me investment is secondary. My desire and happiness trumps all. Im sure Im not alone out here...
This is exactly why I stated from the beginning that I was going to share the appraisals on worth that I received from 150+ messages and also the offers I received so that it might help the community to be better informed. I always hated seeing something for sale and then 2 weeks later going back and seeing it was sold with NO mention of the sale price and I would even contact the seller and ask directly and be told he didn't want to let that information out.
By selling them, ie dealing. IMHO this guy has been tainted with dreamer values. The 13.5k IMHO is in-line with the real current market value. Not to say in a perfect world, it shouldn't be 18k. Cause it probably should be, especially based on what I have seen some living cuemakers listed for.
All you get to see is the asking price on any item lists, anyways, so the reality is that most people do not know what they actually sell for. Hence most people do not know what a cue truly brings. Is it -10%, or 20 maybe 30%...
Hence why I have been for the last 3 years saying a value guide set to realistic numbers based on originality, rarity, etc... is warranted. But you won't see one anytime soon.
As someone that knows where the market is, and where it *was*, I base my opinion on other "like" sales. I also do not need to protect my "collection", and I have no desire to purchase this cue, so my opinion is not influenced by the usual issues seen in pricing.
JV
All you get to see is the asking price on any item lists, anyways, so the reality is that most people do not know what they actually sell for. Hence most people do not know what a cue truly brings. Is it -10%, or 20 maybe 30%...
Hence why I have been for the last 3 years saying a value guide set to realistic numbers based on originality, rarity, etc... is warranted. But you won't see one anytime soon.
As someone that knows where the market is, and where it *was*, I base my opinion on other "like" sales. I also do not need to protect my "collection", and I have no desire to purchase this cue, so my opinion is not influenced by the usual issues seen in pricing.
JV
Sure I get it Joe, you know as well as anyone, but even you cant know all who would want to buy a specific cue. THAT alone could mean a higher price is just waiting till the person willing to pay it is made aware of the offering.
Do I know everyone, not likely. Sure you can "think" there is someone willing to pay 30% over market value, but the only time I have seen that is when a newbie comes in and get the total fish treatment, or a collector decides he is going to buy all of one cue and again... becomes a fish.
JV (----evidently goes fishing with the wrong bait , or the other fisherman don't divulge where the fish are.....
JV (----evidently goes fishing with the wrong bait , or the other fisherman don't divulge where the fish are.....
Do I know everyone, not likely. Sure you can "think" there is someone willing to pay 30% over market value, but the only time I have seen that is when a newbie comes in and get the total fish treatment, or a collector decides he is going to buy all of one cue and again... becomes a fish.
JV (----evidently goes fishing with the wrong bait , or the other fisherman don't divulge where the fish are.....
Fish?...LOL..Thats a good one Joe..
.. Well all kidding aside, IMHO anyone who goes after ANY Gus cue and pays whatever they want would feel priveleged to have been "hooked". Still to this day, Gus's work is the bluefin tuna of the cue ocean.
Actually, I think you're both right. Joe is right in that the market doesn't support half-mortgage prices for vintage cues these days. The evidence is the fancy Gus box cue that he hasn't sold (in this thread) for less than the price being debated for this cue.
However, Tim is correct as well. A fancy Gus is very rare. And if it has the design that at least a few collectors want, then the price goes up. This design is close to the Gus cue that Allen Hopkins played, minus the rings above the wrap. That could attract that "out of the woodwork" buyer.
Then, there is the condition, and the provenance. The condition looks very nice; I'd have a hard time deciding whether to have Barry restore the cue or not. Maybe not, as I like the old look patina this cue has.
For the provenance, it means everything. My favorite example is Mosconi's Bushka. Without Mosconi, it would have gone for maybe 30K, and that's somewhat of a stretch. Because it was Mosconi's, it went for three times that price.
I would suggest that if the OP is serious, stop messing around with cue forums, Craigslist, and whatever. else. Go to Hunts or Sotheby auctions, if you want to see what comes out of the woodwork.
All the best,
WW
However, Tim is correct as well. A fancy Gus is very rare. And if it has the design that at least a few collectors want, then the price goes up. This design is close to the Gus cue that Allen Hopkins played, minus the rings above the wrap. That could attract that "out of the woodwork" buyer.
Then, there is the condition, and the provenance. The condition looks very nice; I'd have a hard time deciding whether to have Barry restore the cue or not. Maybe not, as I like the old look patina this cue has.
For the provenance, it means everything. My favorite example is Mosconi's Bushka. Without Mosconi, it would have gone for maybe 30K, and that's somewhat of a stretch. Because it was Mosconi's, it went for three times that price.
I would suggest that if the OP is serious, stop messing around with cue forums, Craigslist, and whatever. else. Go to Hunts or Sotheby auctions, if you want to see what comes out of the woodwork.
All the best,
WW
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Selling with an auction house poses too much risk for me with buyers fees of 15% and sellers fees of an additional15% meaning if someone wanted to pay $18,000 they would only bid $15,600 and then after my seller fee I would only get $13,300 and I would be right back to where I am now with an offer of $13,500. There is the off chance that an auction house might produce a buyer that pays significantly more than a cue forum or ebay but it could also turn out to be a poor auction for whatever reason and then I would really get hosed. Thank you for your suggestion and taking the time to comment
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IMHO that's a pretty off chance. Everybody who is anybody in the cue world is somehow connected to what was posted here. Even if they aren't posting or lurking here, they know dealers that are here. Every dealer who saw this already addressed his client base regarding it, why would they not? But for dealers, there has to be meat on the bone. You are looking for a seriously maximum figure that seems to be beyond the market for the cue. The only way to realize that value is to sell to the end buyer. And I am pretty confident most of them have been contacted already. I am confident word of the cue for sale circled the globe. I promise that the cue has been seen by people that could pay your asking price without blinking an eye. But they didn't get where they are by doing that.
There is always a chance, as you say, an "off chance".
Personally, I love all the open discussion about the matter. Most cue sales like this are pretty private and the rest of us are not able to see much discussion about them from the various perspectives. I do enjoy it.
I will render no no opinion beyond what I already said, which is that an actual sale will determine the value.
I do wish you the best in getting everything out of it you want. I dig the cue. It is a fine example. :smile:
Agreed. But he seems to think there might be a way to stretch the dollar amount. In the "know know". And this forum is the know.