Unknown pawn shop find

WildWing

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
Duane Remick said:
" No....
I think NOT TITLIST FRONT....
The green/blue/aqua colored veneer is SECOND FROM THE OUSTIDE- IN TOWARD - THE SOLID POINT WOOD ON TITLISTS -
"This cue has the greenish colored veneer next to the natural colored veneer"
BUT The point-work looks Great to me....
Maybe a Szam' blank?
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Correct, not a Titlist forearm. Not only is the color sequence wrong, but there is a double purple veneer on the outside, rather than single.

Szam blank? I would say no. I don't recall any Gus blanks with purple as the outside veneer, and the dimensions don't fit it, especially with the space at the bottom between the points.

All the best,
WW
 
WildWing

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
deadnutz said:
Might want to send pictures to Richard Black........
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I would say this is not a Richard Black. His very early cues had dash joint rings, not the Bushka style. When he went to the Bushka style, they were nickel, not aluminum. Also, he did them thinner than this. Also, to my knowledge, that buttplate/bumper/butt screw was not how Richard did it. Also, in the early days, Richard did an "After Six" design of maple boxes inside the buttsleeve, but they always had dash rings above and below. So, I would say no.

If this is one of Richard's I'll be crazier than the shithouse rat.

All the best,
WW
 
D

deadnutz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WildWing said:
I would say this is not a Richard Black. His very early cues had dash joint rings, not the Bushka style. When he went to the Bushka style, they were nickel, not aluminum. Also, he did them thinner than this. Also, to my knowledge, that buttplate/bumper/butt screw was not how Richard did it. Also, in the early days, Richard did an "After Six" design of maple boxes inside the buttsleeve, but they always had dash rings above and below. So, I would say no.

If this is one of Richard's I'll be crazier than the shithouse rat.

All the best,
WW
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I wasn’t implying it was his build. More that he’s seen so many cues and is friendly enough to take the time to look at an old one and try to help with an ID.
 
jayman

jayman

Hi Mom!
Gold Member
Silver Member
It would be interesting to hear from Tate on this one. I would guess that to be a Palmer shop forearm. The butt cap was glued at some point, thus the glue lock rings and glue. The bumper can hold a butt cap on by compressing the rubber encased steel washer into the butt cap via the inward pressure of tightening the screw squeezing the butt cap between the the shoulder of the butt sleeve and the end of the butt cap tenon.
It could easily be an early work of a master cue maker due to some of the thoughtfulness such as relief rings to use glue as a "wedge" as well as an adhesive,(It would have worked better to do the same inside the butt caps bore as well however} the overkill at the "buzz ring"..I bet it doesn't buzz! The general quality of workmanship looks to have been rather well executed.
Remember, you didn't just buy a Cue smith deluxe and a couple tapes and a book and start with a fifty year head start back then.First you had to learn how to use a lathe, you tried things evaluated there success, then improved your technique as you went forward.
Neat cue!
 
skins

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Anybody throw out the name Dale Patten?... His points and pin have been similar.
 
WildWing

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
jayman said:
It would be interesting to hear from Tate on this one. I would guess that to be a Palmer shop forearm. The butt cap was glued at some point, thus the glue lock rings and glue. The bumper can hold a butt cap on by compressing the rubber encased steel washer into the butt cap via the inward pressure of tightening the screw squeezing the butt cap between the the shoulder of the butt sleeve and the end of the butt cap tenon.
It could easily be an early work of a master cue maker due to some of the thoughtfulness such as relief rings to use glue as a "wedge" as well as an adhesive,(It would have worked better to do the same inside the butt caps bore as well however} the overkill at the "buzz ring"..I bet it doesn't buzz! The general quality of workmanship looks to have been rather well executed.
Remember, you didn't just buy a Cue smith deluxe and a couple tapes and a book and start with a fifty year head start back then.First you had to learn how to use a lathe, you tried things evaluated there success, then improved your technique as you went forward.
Neat cue!
Click to expand...

I like your second theory better. Show me one Palmer with a double purple veneer on the outside for the forearm. I've never seen it.

I think the theory of a more recent cuemaker is the better one, even if early work. Jensen, Patten have been mentioned, and could be others. I'm pretty sure it's not a garage project.

The buttsleeve construction has been pretty well discussed. Although not the preferred method, this one does work, as long as the bumper and screw hold the buttplate on tight. The one thing to think about is this creates a lot of air space inside that buttcap, because there's no typical weight bolt there. Not sure that's good.

Does it have a good hit? Well, you'd have to have a good shaft or two made for it, probably do a restoration, and give it a go. But, I think anyone willing to do that would have that buttsleeve construction done over again. I still don't know who made it.

All the best,
WW
 
PDX

PDX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My Dale Patten had a weight bolt. To my eyes the shorter points and width between them says 70's. The nicely shaped pin to me says that whoever made cared about the little details. The veneers are nice, possibly on the thick side. How heavy is it? My first thought was a Szam blank. If I recall, there was a year or two where Szam had his outside veneers turn purple. I'd ask Barry about that.
I wonder if the veneers will look like this when cleaned up.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?419355&p=5464471#post5464471
 
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Buster8001

Buster8001

Did you say shrubberies?
Silver Member
There was a year ot two where Szam cues had purple outer vaneers. Something about a shortage of black. I've seen it one his cues, as well as Palmers with Szam blanks. The only problem with it being a Szam forearm, is the space between points.

Josh
 
skins

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
Buster8001 said:
There was a year ot two where Szam cues had purple outer vaneers. Something about a shortage of black. I've seen it one his cues, as well as Palmers with Szam blanks. The only problem with it being a Szam forearm, is the space between points.

Josh
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Some makers who used Gus's blanks cut them off at the bottom more than Gus did leaving a bigger gap between the points. Sacrilege in my eyes but I've seen it more than I've wanted.
 
H

HQueen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I sanded the forearm some to see, it looks like purple on the outside veneer to me. Also, another thing that points to an experienced maker is the seams on the veneers, they’re mitered and most of them almost invisible.
 
Bumlak

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
HQueen said:
I sanded the forearm some to see, it looks like purple on the outside veneer to me. Also, another thing that points to an experienced maker is the seams on the veneers, they’re mitered and most of them almost invisible.
Click to expand...

Or at least an experienced "vendor" if it's an "aftermarket" piece as suggested before (i.e. Prathers, Schmelke etc.)
 
cueaddicts

cueaddicts

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
Looks to be a super quality old prong....the build, not so much. Would love to examine it in person
 
cuesblues

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
skins said:
Some makers who used Gus's blanks cut them off at the bottom more than Gus did leaving a bigger gap between the points. Sacrilege in my eyes but I've seen it more than I've wanted.
Click to expand...

They must not understand how they affect the value in being a Gus blank, and it looks awful with the points so far apart
It's amazing how a guy could butcher a Gus blank like that
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's also possible that somebody rebuilt a broken, damaged, or warped cue...in the best way they knew how. That could explain the strange piece of phenolic...the butt cap assembly...and maybe even the short points.

All hard to say at this point. I don't know what it is or what it was or whose hands might have been on it.

It's a cool cue and should clean up nice. I don't think it's fair to compare it to a Gus, even if it turned out to be a Gus splice.

He paid $20 for it. Nice find. Nice project, no matter what.

.
 
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Franky4Eyes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting find for sure!
Dale Patten did make a model like that.
But many others did as well.
That maple window was a very common
and popular design and makes this even
tougher.
Clearly it was repaired at some point;
as I couldn't imagine someone building the cue that way.
Dale definitely didn't!
The old phenolic also tells you it's a custom, since
not many production cues used that big weave canvas stuff on their models.
 
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H

HQueen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No I haven’t worked on it. Too busy catching up with orders. It’s on my to do list...I’ll put my best man on it. Someday.
 
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