Can Practicing Exclusively on Tight Pocket Tables be a Detriment to Your Game?

S

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well it appears, from what I've seen, that snooker players have the edge over "American Pool" players at Chinese 8 ball, but the pool players have the edge over the snooker players when they enter American Pool competitions (with regulation, I.e not so tight, pockets). I think it's reasonable to assume here that they have limited pre-tournament practice at the games they don't usually play. Yes, C8B pockets are cut differently compared to "tight" American Pool pockets but both "play tight" and make an expansive game with a wider range of shots more challenging.

Anecdotally, it's my experience at the recreational level.of the game that good players who are super solid (and come from a snooker or E8B background) make gains on tight or difficult tables against those who put the hours in at the pool hall on regulation tables - but struggle in a race against those same players when the pockets are looser and allow a more knowledgeable player to run out the more difficult patterns more often

I think it also depends on a player's mindset.
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can practicing on tight pockets be a detriment?etc

yes

I am beginning to hate pool

My Gold Crown 5 has 4.5 pockets and tiny side pockets

I hate them,granted I am not such a good player,but a combination of tight pockets,practice pool,
and practicing straight pool is killing me

after 70 years of pool I am getting so sick of pool


Straight pool is making me afraid of long shots,tiny pockets are ,well no fun
and funsey pool is no fun at all

Afella is supposed to trade an older original table to me,but if he doesn't then
I am thinking of quitting
 
R

rikdee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
I dont care what table you play on, your fundamentals are gonna tell in you.

A tighter table just makes your lack of good fundamentals show moreso than the normal to easy tables.

Its really no more complicated than ^^^^^^^.
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100% agree. If talking about pocketing, tighter pockets notwithstanding, top players simply hit the ball straighter on average. Stroke mechanics, not pocket dimensions, is fundamental to higher skill level.
If you play on standard pockets, just observe how your shots enter the pocket. Hitting points or the rails first?
 
B

bstroud

Deceased
Lassiter told me to practice on loose pockets and play for money on tight pockets.

Pool is all about confidence and you cannot gain confidence practicing on tight pockets all the time.

Bill S.
 
C

cue4me

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
 
S

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cue4me said:
A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
Click to expand...

Big balls, small pockets....
 
Oliver

Oliver

San Francisco
Silver Member
You should change your conditions according to what you are looking to achieve.

Struggling with getting your technique sharpened up? Play on tight pockets.

Want to improve positivity, flow and positional play? Play on normal sized pockets.

Already running 10-packs on a normal table? Tighten up those pockets.

Struggling with holding your nerve under pressure? Play on normal sized pockets to get used to not choking..
 
L

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cue4me said:
A quote I believe is attributed to Buddy Hall, may have been Ronnie Allen, when he was told that the pockets on the table were too big - "Bet more". That does seem to be a way to get the apparent size of the pockets to shrink!
Click to expand...
Yep. :thumbup:
 
Lawnboy77

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would think that tighter pockets will help anyone progress faster. I tend to think that if a person is discouraged because of a lack of success on tight pockets then he, or she, should just think of this as another plateau to the next level. Another words, just keep working at it, and it will become easier with time. In my opinion that's why the Asian kids are so good, they love challenges.
 
grindz

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
deanoc said:
Can practicing on tight pockets be a detriment?etc

yes

I am beginning to hate pool

My Gold Crown 5 has 4.5 pockets and tiny side pockets

I hate them,granted I am not such a good player,but a combination of tight pockets,practice pool,
and practicing straight pool is killing me

after 70 years of pool I am getting so sick of pool


Straight pool is making me afraid of long shots,tiny pockets are ,well no fun
and funsey pool is no fun at all

Afella is supposed to trade an older original table to me,but if he doesn't then
I am thinking of quitting
Click to expand...

Dean,

I'm sure you have connections with MG and RKC... Have one of them trade your rails for some looser ones of the right kind from another like table. Plenty of people here
want to tighten up their table, and if you can find one of them that works .. just exchange rails (just rubber, I mean) Or, just buy some new rubber..

I don't know why anyone would change a whole table, when all they "want" / "need"
is looser pockets. Probably won't make you happier with your game, but maybe??

If you were closer, I'd gladly take that table off your hands! :rolleyes:

Regards,

TD
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bstroud said:
Lassiter told me to practice on loose pockets and play for money on tight pockets.

Pool is all about confidence and you cannot gain confidence practicing on tight pockets all the time.

Bill S.
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That is a viewpoint that certainly differs from what most of us may likely have always assumed. Definitely is worth considering, when that advice came from Wimpy - one of the greatest pool players of all time!

I believe the main issue on our two tightest tables is the 143 degree pocket facing angles inside the pockets. When combined with the 4-1/8" corner pocket pocket mouth measurement on these tables, it results in an almost unfair playing pocket for most of us mortals.

I'm hoping/planning to get Ernesto here again either before or after the International Open at Norfolk in late October. If he can alter these angles inside the pockets on these two tables from their current 143 degrees to about 139 degrees, even if we keep the mouth measurement unchanged at 4-1/8", I believe they'll play considerably fairer.
 
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Michael Andros

Michael Andros

tiny balls, GIANT pockets
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
That is a viewpoint that certainly differs from what most of us may likely have always assumed. Definitely is worth considering, when that advice came from Wimpy - one of the greatest pool players of all time!

I believe the main issue on our two tightest tables is the 143 degree pocket facing angles inside the pockets. When combined with the 4-1/8" corner pocket pocket mouth measurement on these tables, it results in an almost unfair playing pocket for most of us mortals.

I'm hoping/planning to get Ernesto here again either before or after the International Open at Norfolk in late October. If he can alter these angles inside the pockets on these two tables from their current 143 degrees to about 139 degrees, even if we keep the mouth measurement unchanged at 4-1/8", I believe they'll play considerably fairer.
Click to expand...


Hard pressed to argue with Bill Stroud ( one of the greatest *road* players of all time ), let alone Luther Lassiter. Points to absolutely ponder...
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
bstroud said:
Lassiter told me to practice on loose pockets and play for money on tight pockets.

Pool is all about confidence and you cannot gain confidence practicing on tight pockets all the time.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

Wow! Some consider Lassiter the game's greatest ever ball pocketer, so this has to be taken seriously. Irving Crane used to advocate playing on tight pockets twice a week, otherwise on average pockets. He once commented to me about a problem that arose if he played on tight equipment only by saying "I don't want to get scared of shots I'm not supposed to be scared of."
 
misterpoole

misterpoole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I grew up playing on a 3/4 size snooker table ie 10ft. Pockets are tighter than pool. I had to develop a smooth stroke and strong fundamentals or quit in frustration. I wouldnt practice exclusively on that table these days . I would practice on it if i needed to work on the fundamentals.
 
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HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
sjm said:
Wow! Some consider Lassiter the game's greatest ever ball pocketer, so this has to be taken seriously. Irving Crane used to advocate playing on tight pockets twice a week, otherwise on average pockets. He once commented to me about a problem that arose if he played on tight equipment only by saying "I don't want to get scared of shots I'm not supposed to be scared of."
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That is what I was talking about in my post when I mentioned "gun shy". When tables are too tight, players tend to get "scared" and they doubt themselves and shoot safeties when maybe they should have tried to make the shot.
 
lfigueroa

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does practicing on a tight table help or hurt?

It depends.

It depends on how you react and what you do about the bobbles. If you do nothing, it hurts. If you stop and figure out why it bobbled, it helps.

Lately I've been playing on some very tight, finicky Diamonds. At first it was aggravating beyond words - hitting a shot just a hair to the outside facing or barely brushing a rail and having the ball hang up. It's a pisser. But what I did was to start to look at all that as indicators of an imperfect setup and stroke and, lately, after much introspection, angst, and work, I have had success.

Personally, I think a table can be too tight for pool to the point that the whole thing becomes something other than pool. You need to be able to work the ball and that means a little leeway at the pocket. But there's never anything wrong with being able to be laser accurate. And when you get a hold of that... it is amazing how much you can still work the cue ball.

Lou Figueroa
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Does practicing on a tight table help or hurt?

It depends.

It depends on how you react and what you do about the bobbles. If you do nothing, it hurts. If you stop and figure out why it bobbled, it helps.

Lately I've been playing on some very tight, finicky Diamonds. At first it was aggravating beyond words - hitting a shot just a hair to the outside facing or barely brushing a rail and having the ball hang up. It's a pisser. But what I did was to start to look at all that as indicators of an imperfect setup and stroke and, lately, after much introspection, angst, and work, I have had success.

Personally, I think a table can be too tight for pool to the point that the whole thing becomes something other than pool. You need to be able to work the ball and that means a little leeway at the pocket. But there's never anything wrong with being able to be laser accurate. And when you get a hold of that... it is amazing how much you can still work the cue ball.

Lou Figueroa
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When playing on a table with super tight pockets that tend to rattle balls, I find myself thinking more about the exact angle I'm planning to leave for my next shot to best get to the shot after that - so as I hopefully don't ever have to stroke any shot any harder than is absolutely necessary. Obviously the harder you have to hit any shot particularly object balls sitting near the cushions, in order to move the cue ball where you need it, the more likely they will rattle if not hit dead center pocket. If you're leaving yourself too straight in on a shot and you have to work that cue ball off line to get on your next ball, on a tight pocket table you're going to have a hard time pocketing the shot successfully and getting the necessary position.
 
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HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why do people always try to make pool into "something else"?

Smaller pockets, faster cloth, bouncier rails, jump cues, BIH, etc., etc., etc.

Nobody is going to tell me that pool is better now than it was a few decades ago.

It is just DIFFERENT.

And, IMHO, getting worse.
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
gypsy_soul said:
I'm on my way East . Any tight tables around? I'm in Nashville thinking bout Huntsville if anyone wants action
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Hey buddy,

There is a 9' pro am with 4.25 corners in Huntsville at goodtimez, if it didn't get sold when sam sold the room (not long ago). The new owner sold off all but two 9'ers. He kept most 7'ers.

Drop me a line if you make it to Huntsville. I would like to meet up and play some cheap 10 ball if my schedule works out with yours.

Try to give me a couple days notice if possible.

Have a good one,

Jeff
 
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