itrader and wanted/for sale forum

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
OK gang, looks like we need to figure a few things out here. Having some problems lately with users flaking on deals and then whining about it when they are asked to do the right thing.

Want to remind everyone of a couple of things. Someone posting a negative itrader after a deal is not reason to post a negative itrader back. If you were happy with the deal, give them a positive itrader. If they give you a negative one, then reply with your side of what happened and let future customers decide whether to do business with you on their own after reading the facts.

I am thinking about the idea of putting some users on wanted/for sale probation if they have multiple legitimate complaints about the way they do business. I am open to anyone's thoughts on this sort of thing.

Also interested in other ideas as to how to police this area better. If you have an opinion, this is the place to make it known.

Mike
 

Worminator

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My suggestion is to stop deleting threads and let the users decide for themselves. Policing iTrader will be a slippery slope... but an "eye for an eye" response is certainly something that needs to be addressed.
 

ScottR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What Jamie said. Deleting content diminishes the usefulness of the forum.

I realize that moderating individual posts is much more time-consuming. However, deleting whole threads that have a lot of useful information (including people posting like asses and showing their true nature) is too far in the other direction.

An idea was floated before about a "committee" of respected posters to help police and moderate. This could be very useful in the Wanted/For Sale section. If the right cross-section of posters is selected, we can pretty much remove any real or perceived biases.

One overriding theme that I see is that none of us is going to change another person or their actions. The best we can hope to do is shine a light on the less-than-honorable people for others to see their actions. Fact: in retail, you will never stop people from stealing from you. Your goal is to make it so difficult that they go somewhere else to do it.

Scott
 

VonRhett

Friends Call Me "von"
Silver Member
No committees please!

It's literally impossible to form a virtual committee who will then collectively determine right & wrong between parties and transactions with which they were not involved. Committees can not create morals, integrity or character. All the total flakes on here would still be flakes.

With online transactions the line between right and wrong is, occasionally, tough to determine.

Their only reference point would be the words of the 2 parties involved. I don't want a committee telling me who was right, or who it's OK to do business with, or who might be questionable.

Let us see the arguments - in their entirety - and decide for ourselves. AKA, stop deleting threads. Create a parking lot for them and lock them down, but give us read access.

I agree that if a buyer remits timely payment, his part of the bargain is fulfilled and should receive nothing but Positive Feedback.

-von
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
OK gang, looks like we need to figure a few things out here. Having some problems lately with users flaking on deals and then whining about it when they are asked to do the right thing.

Want to remind everyone of a couple of things. Someone posting a negative itrader after a deal is not reason to post a negative itrader back. If you were happy with the deal, give them a positive itrader. If they give you a negative one, then reply with your side of what happened and let future customers decide whether to do business with you on their own after reading the facts.

I am thinking about the idea of putting some users on wanted/for sale probation if they have multiple legitimate complaints about the way they do business. I am open to anyone's thoughts on this sort of thing.

Also interested in other ideas as to how to police this area better. If you have an opinion, this is the place to make it known.

Mike



Mike I think a Sticky thread should be started in that forum. For those who are repeat abusers who have a reputation for being involved in the bad transactions that have been occurring frequently post a link to the Sticky thread and list the thread along with the members username. This sticky should remained closed so that only yourself or the moderator's can post to it, at least this way the information will be easily available for anyone who wants to find it.

The I-Trader has some holes in it, if you give some one a bad rating even if you are right you will also receive the same back, this affects some people decisions because they are new and have no other reputation. Also some members in the past have had friends add to their I-Trader rating just to build it up with no transaction really being made, so this kinda makes I-Trader not as effective as it was intended to be.

Mike, I think the sticky thread would be a good place to start. With only yourself and the Moderator in charge of the forum adding the information I think people would not be able to string so many members along like they have in the past. Also the information in the sticky would only reflect facts that have been substantiated not what some ones friend or enemy can post to either cover their buddies ass or destroy some ones reputation.

In my opinion this would be a simple and a good start. I think it would alert members more accurately than any other method we are currently using. Whether the names / threads stay there permanently is up to you, if were up to me they would never be removed because people do not change these habits easily.

JIMO
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Come on everyone Mike is giving us all a chance to add something useful. It serves no purpose to complain about current policies and say nothing when asked for your idea's.

JIMO
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hal

JusticeNJ

Four Points/Steel Joints
Silver Member
My .02

1. Do not delete negative threads - no matter what!

2. All Itrader is subject to moderator approval.

3. Do not ban accused posters with pending deals. This almost ensures the complainant will lose out.

4. Upgrade another moderator for this forum specifically. Make sure they are not going to always side with the dealer or buyer.
 

ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
Only OP can post in FS/T thread. There are other forums to promote, schill or crap

Bump at minimum 72 hr intervals

Seller is responsible for delivery unless other arrangements are agreed to in writing

Complaints, with documentation, will be privately forwarded to mod for disposition
 
Last edited:

maidenfreak

Maidenfreak2009
Silver Member
Split Wanted and For Sale into two sections. Wanted section anyone can post, For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread. Will weed out a lot of the scammers and with enough substantiated complaints the membership is pulled and no more posting. Just a suggestion. :thumbup:
 

azhousepro

Administrator
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Now this is an interesting idea.

Not sure about the complaints being forwarded to a mod. I know I don't want to get into the business of reviewing photos of shafts to determine if they are warped and who's fault it is.

I also like the sticky thread idea.

Trying to think of a way around people being able to scam itrader, but I don't see one.

Mike

Split Wanted and For Sale into two sections. Wanted section anyone can post, For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread. Will weed out a lot of the scammers and with enough substantiated complaints the membership is pulled and no more posting. Just a suggestion. :thumbup:
 

maidenfreak

Maidenfreak2009
Silver Member
Want to remind everyone of a couple of things. Someone posting a negative itrader after a deal is not reason to post a negative itrader back. If you were happy with the deal, give them a positive itrader. If they give you a negative one, then reply with your side of what happened and let future customers decide whether to do business with you on their own after reading the facts.

I think this is what you should post in the sticky rules and let it ride. Sellers will get the hint to be extremely detailed in their listings and not to make a deal just because someone has money to throw around. Sellers need to conduct themselves as a business and be prepared for all scenarios. Insure your packages, instructions prior to shipping, communication during, and follow up when received. If there is an issue immediately resolve. Seems pretty simple to me. ;)

That could always be included in a agreement to terms and policies when joining..
 
Last edited:

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Split Wanted and For Sale into two sections. Wanted section anyone can post, For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread. Will weed out a lot of the scammers and with enough substantiated complaints the membership is pulled and no more posting. Just a suggestion. :thumbup:



I think that is a good idea!!

Respectfully.
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
Now this is an interesting idea.

Not sure about the complaints being forwarded to a mod. I know I don't want to get into the business of reviewing photos of shafts to determine if they are warped and who's fault it is.

I also like the sticky thread idea.

Trying to think of a way around people being able to scam itrader, but I don't see one.

Mike

Mike if you are referring to the post I made above, that was not my intent. I think if a problem is reported to a moderator, note should be made of it. If the same person continues to have similar bad transactions, maybe like three strikes your out, they will lose the privilege to use that forum and there name would added to the sticky thread.

Mike since I have been a member there have been a few choice individuals who always seem to have problems meeting their commitments. It can certainly happen to anyone give the right set of circumstances, beyond one or two times there is more going on than a mistake. We have many members who use this section on regular basis and have never had a problem, and this is directly do to their customer service, and nothing more. I am certain they have deals that did not go as planned, but they handle things in a manner without being forced to everyones satisfaction, when you treat things in the manner that this is a business you will either do well or go broke.

Hope I have made myself more clear on what I was thinking.

Respectfully
 

asiasdad

Banned
Only OP can post in FS/T thread. There are other forums to promote, schill or crap

Bump at minimum 72 hr intervals

Seller is responsible for delivery unless other arrangements are agreed to in writing


Split Wanted and For Sale into two sections. Wanted section anyone can post, For Sale section you must be a paid member to post a new thread. Will weed out a lot of the scammers and with enough substantiated complaints the membership is pulled and no more posting. Just a suggestion. :thumbup:

I agree with much of what has been suggested above.

The OP should be the only one to post on something for sale.
The wasted bandwidth on commentary could be used more productively,
like on PM's from people with questions that the OP could answer/update
their for sale listing if they so choose.

I like the 72 hour restriction on bumping, and that could be easily
enough handled by the sites programmers (ie: you must wait
2:05:55 hrs before bumping thread again)

Seller responsible for paying shipping/insurance charges. The
price listed must include this factor.
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
Bad deals with one side unsatisfied after several PM's, phone calls, and emails, need to be posted in the WFS, without the fear of it being moved or deleted.
If the thread is unreasonable and several are, the OP will find out real quick, and look very bad after the dust settles.
Itrader shouldn't be accessed unless there was a deal completed.
If the deal went a little bad and money / cues were returned, that was not a completed deal.
Itrader is what it is, but I don't think that buying a raffle spot or a bet, is enough of a deal to obtain positive Itraders, so the Itrader rating is not very accurate in some instances....reference tassadicts.
For the few times a year a member receives a negative Itrader for no reason other than spite, the mods should remove the negatives.
That is assuming that the administrator or moderator understands the situation correctly, and makes the logical decision.

Although few deals on AZ go totally bad, there have been more in the last 2-years than ever due to the economy.
Buyers and sellers need to really look at more than just Itrader, and rep.
Personalities have a lot to do with these deals as well.
We can't rely on the AZ system to tell us if a guy is honest but nuts, common sense has to prevail at some point.
Back in the day it was hard to do business on AZ unless a well respected member would vouch for you.
With all of the newbies coming on this forum just to sell their stuff, some migrating over from Ebay trying to turn this into an auction site, buyers need to be more careful than ever.
It is still on us, not the AZ administrators.
I like the escrow idea, but only on expensive items like a cue worth over $2000.00.
Lately I've seen sellers taking "highest bid" on $200 items.
What's up with that?
That is one thing the mods really need to put a stop to.
This is not Ebay
 

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mike and all;

Unless there is some monumental reason (eg legal, death threats, etc.) Please Do Not Remove Threads. Even if there seems to be a good reason, when possible, remove the violative/offensive post(s) and lock it down.

Threads involving deals that have gone bad do need to be on display and a dedicated sticky is a great place where to put them.

It would be entirely too complicated for mods to try and arbitrate deals gone bad. And I, too, agree that forming a committee would be frought with peril and pitfalls (always wanted to sneak this in somewhere). :thumbup:

A while back, we discussed splitting wanted and for sale into two sections as a possible way to relieve some of the high traffic in the forum. I like this idea a lot!

Turning lemons into lemonade:

Requiring a paid club membership for those who wish to be able to post new threads in the For Sale section, to me, is a no brainer. It will not entirely fix the problem of deals going bad but it promises to reduce these unpleasant occurrances, maybe even dramatically.

First, a membership fee will turn away the vast majority of people who come here looking to prey on someone.

Second, the Azers who have to buy a membership in order to sell here would, no doubt, feel like they have more of a stake in how all of the business dealings go and that they wouldn't want people crapping in their store aisles.

A dedicated sticky can include all threads involving bad transactions that, after giving them a fair chance, the parties could not come to a satisfactory resolution. Lock these threads, and display them for everyone's future reference.

Allow us this access so that we may use our intelligence to make informed judgements as to whether we should do business with someone.

iTrader will be another chapter to write.

Best,
Brian kc
 
Last edited:

strokerace

"The Hustler"
Silver Member
membership

Mike and all;

Unless there is some monumental reason (eg legal, death threats, etc.) Please Do Not Remove Threads. Even if there seems to be a good reason, when possible, remove the violative/offensive post(s) and lock it down. Threads involving deals that have gone bad do need to be on display and a dedicated sticky is a great place where to put them.It would be entirely too complicated for mods to try and arbitrate deals gone bad. And I, too, agree that forming a committee would be frought with peril and pitfalls (always wanted to sneak this in somewhere). :thumbup:

A while back, we discussed splitting wanted and for sale into two sections as a possible way to relieve some of the high traffic in the forum. I like this idea a lot!

Turning lemons into lemonade:

Requiring a paid club membership for those who wish to be able to post new threads in the For Sale section, to me, is a no brainer. It will not entirely fix the problem of deals going bad but it promises to reduce these unpleasant occurrances, maybe even dramatically.

First, a membership fee will turn away the vast majority of people who come here looking to prey on someone.

Second, the Azers who have to buy a membership in order to sell here would, no doubt, feel like they have more of a stake in how all of the business dealings go and that they wouldn't want people crapping in their store aisles.

A dedicated sticky can include all threads involving bad transactions that, after giving them a fair chance, the parties could not come to a satisfactory resolution. Lock these threads, and display them for everyone's future reference.

Allow us this access so that we may use our intelligence to make informed judgements as to whether we should do business with someone.

iTrader will be another chapter to write.

Best,
Brian kc

Agree Brian..i suggested a Membership Fee for Sellers a while back..why
would anyone not support this??..even at the current rate for Club Memberships would be good..if you sell on here..you should be able to afford $40 bucks a year..seperation of wanted items and sell items is a
great idea..so is the Sticky thing..access to the main purpose of this Forum would not be compromised by doing this..strickly dealing with sellers in this way would abolish alot of bad dealings and make it so much easier to monitor..i suggested a Fee of $100 per year..that seemed to be a little high for some..but those were Folks with little or no iTraders..SA
 

sweatinNbettin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think $100 a year is steep and I have plenty of itrader.

I agree something needs to be done but I don't know if charging people to sell is the answer. Do you charge a variable fee based on selling frequency? Or do you go to an eBay style fee based on selling price? And who authenticates the true sold for price?

I think not deleting threads is a must. Just lock them so that people can see. If there is something way over the top, maybe delete that post but not the entire thread.

Itrader can still be vital if it is used correctly and not used as a rebuttal tool.

I think this thread is a step in the right direction because we can voice our ideas and start working towards some type of a solution.

Thanks again Mike for a great site. I know there can be thankless days and a lot of stress.
 
Top