Fargorate Ethical Question

highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
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Edited for length:
I have been asked to play on somebody's BCA team for Vegas next year, and with our current fargo total we could play in the gold division. Also if I chose to, I could play in the silver singles. Years ago, before I knew much about fargo, I was given a 525 starter rating (don't know how this was calculated) and I'm now at 535 with 20 games robustness. I play significantly stronger than my fargo, but I'm not sure what to do about it. Should I just play the tournaments I'm able to play in until my fargo catches up with my speed? I don't love playing on bar tables or playing tournaments and I'm probably not going to be a regular in any league, except maybe playing the weeks I need to qualify for Vegas, so I don't know how to go about achieving an accurate fargo rate. Is it unethical for me to be playing these tournaments or is that just what people do until their fargo's are accurate and established?
 
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Dan_B

Dan_B

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You're going to need to buck up and get 180 games in before then to play.
Need 200 robust for BCA League - Vegas.
Best I can recall anyways.
 
highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
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Dan_B said:
You're going to need to buck up and get 180 games in before then to play.
Need 200 robust for BCA League - Vegas.
Best I can recall anyways.
Click to expand...

Is this a recent rule? The 20 games I have are from a Vegas team tournament 2 or 3 years ago that I was allowed to play in with 0 games. If you ask me, I think a minimum robustness requirement is a great idea, aside from the fact it would disqualify me from playing in 2020
 
Dan_B

Dan_B

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yep, 200 is the threshold;
is it just games played?
Seems like there was some other factors in there that renders a players robustness.

It hasn't come together yet, there will be a way to play12 games on a
Saturday afternoon and they'll post in the big book, just not there yet.
 
BRussell

BRussell

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You shouldn’t intentionally lower your rating, but I wouldn’t think it’s your responsibility to fix it if it’s wrong. However, the BCA leagues say this:

We take player ratings very seriously. A player who intentionally enters an event with a transitional or starter rating that is too low for his or her ability, is cheating. Be aware that we have tools in place to monitor players who are consistently and significantly performing above their rating during the event. CSI reserves the right to disqualify any player without refund. Therefore, if you believe you are underrated, contact CSI prior to the registration deadline.
Click to expand...

This is in the context of a story about a player who was “overheard bragging” about being rated too low, and who was then disqualified.

So I think the fact that you posted this means that you know you are underrated, and you therefore should tell CSI or risk being disqualified.
 
tucson9ball

tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
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highkarate said:
Edited for length:
I have been asked to play on somebody's BCA team for Vegas next year, and with our current fargo total we could play in the gold division. Also if I chose to, I could play in the silver singles. Years ago, before I knew much about fargo, I was given a 525 starter rating (don't know how this was calculated) and I'm now at 535 with 20 games robustness. I play significantly stronger than my fargo, but I'm not sure what to do about it. Should I just play the tournaments I'm able to play in until my fargo catches up with my speed? I don't love playing on bar tables or playing tournaments and I'm probably not going to be a regular in any league, except maybe playing the weeks I need to qualify for Vegas, so I don't know how to go about achieving an accurate fargo rate. Is it unethical for me to be playing these tournaments or is that just what people do until their fargo's are accurate and established?
Click to expand...

There is no minimum of Fargo games to play in Vegas. The only thing you need to do is play 8 weeks(40 games) in your local league to qualify.
If you play in tournaments that get submitted to Fargo your rating will adjust to your true playing ability eventually....about 200 games or so.
If your Fargo goes up too much, your team may not qualify for the Gold division, something to keep an eye on.
 
highkarate

highkarate

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tucson9ball said:
There is no minimum of Fargo games to play in Vegas. The only thing you need to do is play 8 weeks(40 games) in your local league to qualify.
If you play in tournaments that get submitted to Fargo your rating will adjust to your true playing ability eventually....about 200 games or so.
If your Fargo goes up too much, your team may not qualify for the Gold division, something to keep an eye on.
Click to expand...

See that's what I thought. Maybe I'll just remove myself from the situation so I don't screw these guys up for Vegas. Thanks
 
cardiac kid

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
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tucson9ball said:
There is no minimum of Fargo games to play in Vegas. The only thing you need to do is play 8 weeks(40 games) in your local league to qualify.
If you play in tournaments that get submitted to Fargo your rating will adjust to your true playing ability eventually....about 200 games or so.
If your Fargo goes up too much, your team may not qualify for the Gold division, something to keep an eye on.
Click to expand...

Chris,

Isn't it 8 weekly matches or 32 games minimum?

Lyn
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With that 525 starter rating? Did you play APA or were you asked for any other measurement of your "speed"? I'm cheating by playing the starter rating YOU gave me? lol.
 
JC

JC

Coos Cues
BRussell said:
You shouldn’t intentionally lower your rating, but I wouldn’t think it’s your responsibility to fix it if it’s wrong. However, the BCA leagues say this:



This is in the context of a story about a player who was “overheard bragging” about being rated too low, and who was then disqualified.

So I think the fact that you posted this means that you know you are underrated, and you therefore should tell CSI or risk being disqualified.
Click to expand...

All players think they are rated too low. The more established they are the more they say it. It's the new thing.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JC said:
All players think they are rated too low. The more established they are the more they say it. It's the new thing.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the problem is when the BCA agrees with you, they don't blame themselves they penalize the player. I don't get disqualifying, why not just adjust on the fly? We started you at 525, but looks like your a 585 so that's what you'll be playing as next match. Problem solved. If anything they should apologize to both players.
 
Dan_B

Dan_B

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...um, I hadn't seen it.


the 200 may be for csi tournaments, there were some changes last season..
I do now recall the 8 match's for BCA league to be sanctioned, for the year.
 
highkarate

highkarate

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Silver Member
DecentShot said:
With that 525 starter rating? Did you play APA or were you asked for any other measurement of your "speed"? I'm cheating by playing the starter rating YOU gave me? lol.
Click to expand...

I played APA like 6 years ago I was a 7/9, but that doesn't mean much and nobody asked anyway.
 
highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JC said:
All players think they are rated too low. The more established they are the more they say it. It's the new thing.
Click to expand...

So in your opinion I'm probably not underrated and I should just play in the silver division? Aren't you the guy always complaining about unestablished players winning events? You started an entire thread about it called "the unestablished fargo player" if I recall correctly...

Either way, I'm just wondering if it is standard practice for unestablished players to play in the lowest division they can, or if it's frowned upon. B russel kind of answered that with the excerpt from BCA. It's frowned upon, and I'm not going to do it. Thanks B russel btw. Instead of telling CSI what I kinda sorta guess my rating might be, I'll probably just avoid this event and try not to sabotage my buddies team by showing up with a fargo 150 points higher than what he thought I was and bumping us out of the division.

If it was just like 50 fargo points I wouldn't feel bad, but for reference: I probably play about the same on a bar table as the established 680 who asked me to be on his team (I'm not totally sure though, as I play zero bar box at the moment). I definitely play a bit better 9 ball on a 9' than him. I have beat a couple guys gambling even on a 9' that were over 700 and the highest a 740, But I've also lost to players rated much lower than that. So I'm not sure exactly where I should be and wouldn't even know what to tell CSI if I did want to play. Maybe you're right and I'm a 525 with a high gear...
 
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highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
You shouldn’t intentionally lower your rating, but I wouldn’t think it’s your responsibility to fix it if it’s wrong. However, the BCA leagues say this:



This is in the context of a story about a player who was “overheard bragging” about being rated too low, and who was then disqualified.

So I think the fact that you posted this means that you know you are underrated, and you therefore should tell CSI or risk being disqualified.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
highkarate said:
I played APA like 6 years ago I was a 7/9, but that doesn't mean much and nobody asked anyway.
Click to expand...

You are a 7/9 and that doesn't mean much? You beat a 700 and a 740. I guess it does mean something. You making it seem as though the BCA don't put much stock in APA skill levels, but then at the top of the APA rankings your freaking people out. Cause, to me, it would mean something, because IT SHOULD. This is like police agencies working against each other to get the credit.
 
highkarate

highkarate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DecentShot said:
You are a 7/9 and that doesn't mean much? You beat a 700 and a 740. I guess it does mean something. You making it seem as though the BCA don't put much stock in APA skill levels, but then at the top of the APA rankings your freaking people out. Cause, to me, it would mean something, because IT SHOULD. This is like police agencies working against each other to get the credit.
Click to expand...

I just meant it doesn't mean much in the sense that two 7/9's could have a fargo difference of 150+ points potentially, so it's not a good indicator to use to estimate a fargorate
 
D

DecentShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
highkarate said:
I just meant it doesn't mean much in the sense that two 7/9's could have a fargo difference of 150+ points potentially, so it's not a good indicator to use to estimate a fargorate
Click to expand...

With two 8 ball 7's I can see a big gap. With two 7/9s? They should be about even, if there is a gap, it would show up in 8 ball. So you have a point there.
 
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