Harriman vs Schmidt

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not so sure. I think to make that claim, you'd have to find the averages of all of John's runs in the last few years. Of course we can't do that. But didn't he run the 400 about 15 years ago, and a second 403 or so a couple years later? And he won the US Open about then also, as well as the DCC One Hole. His tournament record is better then than now.

I do believe players slow down a bit as they get older, from both an execution perspective and a determination perspective. John is at the age that is starting to happen, IMO.

I doubt he is any better now than 15 years ago. (And I'd say the same thing about pretty much any player, both pro or amateur, that there game is almost the same from about age 22 to age 45).

Yes, I heard the podcast where John said something clicked in his head when he had that high 400's run a few weeks before hitting the 626. And I read all of the threads too. But if you average his runs across all of his concerted efforts the past 2 years, did they in fact increase as time went on? I'd bet they were about the same.

Another thing you can look at, is all of his run attempts at DCC over the years. Did they increase as the years went on? Again, without knowing the data, I'd hypothesize they were in the same range every year.

Edit: Hell, I bet on John to do well at the US Open earlier this year. I felt he had been playing so well and was in dead punch because of all of the straight pool. And he ended up getting blanked in one or both of his matches. I was shocked.

Your response is a very reasonable thought process and may very well be spot on. I hope it's not in John's or for Danny's case, as far as that does.

I've always wondered why Danny didn't go further than he did in the pro ranks.

I witnessed Danny's first ever match against Mike S., and to be honest, from what I saw that day, just like others....I expected Danny to become a much greater force in the pro tour than what actually came to be.

I personally know John a lot better than I do Danny. I've only met Danny three or four times. First time was when he played so well at a very young age against Mike. I can't remember how old he was but, I know he couldn't have be over 20ish years old.

IMO, Danny had more "natural" talent as an all-around player at that age than John did.

I have no idea where Danny's 14.1 game is at today so, I would be hesitant to bet on him in a really long race. A race to 125, well, I would be scared (literally) to bet against Danny regardless of who he was playing.

At their levels of play, a 14.1 race to 125 is about like a race to 5 in 9 ball between two players that have ran 10 packs in the past......just who ever is on and happens to get the first open shot wins the match, almost a coin toss. Then, add the fact that Danny has always been known to grind with the best, well, is another factor that would make me hesitant about a short set.

I'm not so sure about John's game being the same or even lesser now compared to then. Sure, most players do play worse as they age but, 14.1 is a different animal and sometimes age/experience is an edge instead of a drawback and I believe that the sheer amount of 14.1 time on the table has given JS an edge. I would feel somewhat comfortable betting that JS has put more time into his 14.1 game than anyone else of his generation forward and that probably wont change for a long time to come.

Also, like you said, all the needed data would clear a lot up but, we'll never see it so, we'll have to speculate from what we do know. And what I know is that JS has put one Hell-of-a-lot of time in lately but, I have no idea how much time Danny has put into 14.1 in the same timeframes.

John knows that Danny is a dangerous opponent. I'm sure most anyone would feel the same way about Danny.

We can only hope a match between JS and DH will happen. Like I said before, I would be willing to pay a premium PPV price to watch it.

Their love for 14.1 coupled with their history with each other should make for a very, very exciting match.

Jeff
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Agreed, and if it does, I would like to bet on John Schmidt. I don't think Harriman could get the backing these days.

Anyone know if he's been playing much?

A DH in stroke is a dangerous opponent in 14.1.

If hehas not played much you may be correct about the backing.

It would be nice to watch them.

IMO, if both are at their best, the match would be toward the top of the "must see" matches.

Jeff
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Anyone know if he's been playing much?

A DH in stroke is a dangerous opponent in 14.1.

If hehas not played much you may be correct about the backing.

It would be nice to watch them.

IMO, if both are at their best, the match would be toward the top of the "must see" matches.

Jeff

It has been 5 months since John ran the 626, and I don't think he has played much in that period. It'll be interesting to see how he does this coming week in the American 14.1 event.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

Yes, but, ~400 is a looonnngggg ways from 626.

I'm still not sold on his game has went downhill at this point. Matter of fact, to me, it makes just as much sense to say his game has improved since then.

Depending on who you ask, there is evidence that John's "14.1" game has much improved.

I'm in the "he has improved" camp.

I've not seen or spoke to John in person in a good while but, the last time I saw him play, well, there was no way he could've hit 626.

My logic tells me that he either:

Improved by are good bit

Or

He is the luckiest pool player thats ever lived

Or

There is something fishy.

Having said that ^^^^^^^, I don't believe anything is "off" about his run, not in the least.

On the other hand, I also don't believe he is the luckiest player to ever live.

So, to me, that only leaves one choice, he worked hard and improved upon what was already a very strong skillset.

I may be wrong abiut the lucky part but, I just don't see anyone getting lucky 626 times.

Jeff
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It has been 5 months since John ran the 626, and I don't think he has played much in that period. It'll be interesting to see how he does this coming week in the American 14.1 event.

I agree. Just yesterday, I was having that same conversation with a friend of mine. I think the time off may be a good thing.

If time off proves to have been a good thing for him......:eek:

Jeff
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
If they want to box or wrestle each other that's fine...or go battle it out on Facebook, the ideal platform for this sort of drama.

They hate each other (one of them especially). I don't think pool needs a spectacle of bad behavior, which is clearly what this would become.

Add in a healthy dose of delusion, (one about the significance of the record, the other about pretty much the entire universe around him) and it will be embarrassing for the sport. I know it is tempting to think drama and grudge matches will bring in fans and excitement but I think it would be a mistake to let that define pool.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
If they want to box or wrestle each other that's fine...or go battle it out on Facebook, the ideal platform for this sort of drama.

They hate each other (one of them especially). I don't think pool needs a spectacle of bad behavior, which is clearly what this would become.

Add in a healthy dose of delusion, (one about the significance of the record, the other about pretty much the entire universe around him) and it will be embarrassing for the sport. I know it is tempting to think drama and grudge matches will bring in fans and excitement but I think it would be a mistake to let that define pool.

The "use by" date for this match expired a long time ago. John has barely made a blip in pro pool for years now, with the exception being his 626 run under exhibition like circumstances. Danny has pretty much completely dropped out of the pro pool scene for several years now. I can't remember the last time he even made an appearance at a major tournament.

The only reason for a match like this would be the grudge factor with some pool fans hoping for a Strickland like implosion by one or both players. I don't find this compelling enough to stage such a match and hopefully it won't happen.
 
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logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
The "use by" date for this match expired a long time ago. John has barely made a blip in pro pool for years now, with the exception being his 626 run under exhibition like circumstances. Danny has pretty much completely dropped out of the pro pool scene for several years now. I can't remember the last time he even made an appearance at a major tournament.

The only reason for a match like this would be the grudge factor with some pool fans hoping for a Strickland like implosion by one or both players. I don't find this compelling enough to stage such a match and hopefully it won't happen.
Plus, John really has nothing to gain by getting involved with Danny. Right or wrong, to the casual pool fan he's the guy that beat the Great Mosconi. Beating Danny doesn't build on that and losing to him would wreck what little mystique he has surrounding his name.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
. . . I also don't believe he is the luckiest player to ever live.

So, to me, that only leaves one choice, he worked hard and improved upon what was already a very strong skillset.

I may be wrong about the lucky part but, I just don't see anyone getting lucky 626 times.

Jeff
Good observations, Jeff.
Super-smart Mike Sigel nails the correct way to view "luck" when it comes to ultra-long runs in 14.1. As he indicates in the below excerpt from the Billiards Digest commendatory article, it boils down to -- not the anti-Schmidt-ers' dismissive idea of John being lucky 626 times -- but as John himself asserted -- being very fortunate enough come up with a shot opportunity after each break shot of those 44 racks:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Sigel
World 14.1 Champion 1979, '81, '85

"It's the most amazing feat I've ever heard. My high run was 339. Look at all the other runs he had in the 300s and 400s. How hard is what he did? He's the only one that's ever done it. You have to have the ability and you have to get a shot after 44 consecutive break shots. It's hard to believe. To concentrate that long and get the opportunity in 44 racks is amazing. As for criticism, I don't think this should be questioned at all. Give him the credit. The reality is that nobody else has even come close to that. Even if straight pool was the game today and all the top players were playing it all the time, I still don't think this number would be beat. That's how incredible it is."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arnaldo
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The "use by" date for this match expired a long time ago. John has barely made a blip in pro pool for years now, with the exception being his 626 run under exhibition like circumstances. Danny has pretty much completely dropped out of the pro pool scene for several years now. I can't remember the last time he even made an appearance at a major tournament.

The only reason for a match like this would be the grudge factor with some pool fans hoping for a Strickland like implosion by one or both players. I don't find this compelling enough to stage such a match and hopefully it won't happen.

5th in the 2017 , word pool , straight pool championship


1
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
If they want to box or wrestle each other that's fine...or go battle it out on Facebook, the ideal platform for this sort of drama.

They hate each other (one of them especially). I don't think pool needs a spectacle of bad behavior, which is clearly what this would become.

Add in a healthy dose of delusion, (one about the significance of the record, the other about pretty much the entire universe around him) and it will be embarrassing for the sport. I know it is tempting to think drama and grudge matches will bring in fans and excitement but I think it would be a mistake to let that define pool.

These 2 guys matter as much to the public as the best hamburger maker at McDonalds.

Everybody trying to act like pool is important to the public is delusional.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
It’s important to the pool public damn it. I’m all for settling anything on a pool table. Whoever wins is right and all their concerns and accusations valid.
 

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
These 2 guys matter as much to the public as the best hamburger maker at McDonalds.

Everybody trying to act like pool is important to the public is delusional.

Very true. Then again, I'll take two cheeseburgers with extra onions please.

Jeff
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
These 2 guys matter as much to the public as the best hamburger maker at McDonalds.

Everybody trying to act like pool is important to the public is delusional.

For real.

We love pool and even we aren't all interested in the run.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If they want to box or wrestle each other that's fine...or go battle it out on Facebook, the ideal platform for this sort of drama.

They hate each other (one of them especially). I don't think pool needs a spectacle of bad behavior, which is clearly what this would become.

Add in a healthy dose of delusion, (one about the significance of the record, the other about pretty much the entire universe around him) and it will be embarrassing for the sport. I know it is tempting to think drama and grudge matches will bring in fans and excitement but I think it would be a mistake to let that define pool.


A JS v DH match wouldn't define anything.

BUT it would be high quality pool with tons of tension and drama and THAT kind of an authentic scenario is hard to come by. People love a little blood in the water between two competitors (believe me, I know) and it'd make a great PPV.

Lou Figueroa
 
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