Value of "used" equipment

funnyman · Aug 29, 2019

I'm aware of the rule of the thumb -- half of retail price is a starting point for the value of used cues. What about unused cues?

- Mid-range factory-made LD shaft
- Purchased from reputable dealer 2 years ago
- Both parties agree it's unused, unchalked and straight

Fair value is what percentage of the current retail price?

Thanks!

mchnhed · Aug 29, 2019

Remember....

No Tax
No Shipping Costs

So....10%-20% Off?

Unless you really want to sell it quickly then 30+%?
Everybody loves a bargain.

Once I got a new Carmeli Shaft for $75, I think it was about $125 normally.

poolguy4u · Aug 29, 2019

.

Well, a lot depends on who is selling it and their reputation.

If you can get five people on facebook to say how good the product is, great deal,

can't believe this didn't sell yet, and the seller is really a great guy the sky is the limit.

Then you have those people that say "if I had the money I'd buy it."

I call it the Open Billiards Market buddy system.

Just depends on what the item is I guess.

.

pt109 · Aug 29, 2019

funnyman said:
I'm aware of the rule of the thumb -- half of retail price is a starting point for the value of used cues. What about unused cues?

- Mid-range factory-made LD shaft
- Purchased from reputable dealer 2 years ago
- Both parties agree it's unused, unchalked and straight

Fair value is what percentage of the current retail price?

Thanks!

Seems to me it’s worth full retail if lt’s straight

juspooln · Aug 29, 2019

it is the price at which a buyer, is willing to give the seller, enough cash to so O.K.

jrctherake · Aug 29, 2019

funnyman said:
I'm aware of the rule of the thumb -- half of retail price is a starting point for the value of used cues. What about unused cues?

- Mid-range factory-made LD shaft
- Purchased from reputable dealer 2 years ago
- Both parties agree it's unused, unchalked and straight

Fair value is what percentage of the current retail price?

Thanks!

Used don't just mean it's been physically used. When a product has been purchased, it's technically used from that second on.

As to the value, I'd say ~60% of whatever they cost.

jrctherake · Aug 29, 2019

poolguy4u said:
.

Well, a lot depends on who is selling it and their reputation.

If you can get five people on facebook to say how good the product is, great deal,

can't believe this didn't sell yet, and the seller is really a great guy the sky is the limit.

Then you have those people that say "if I had the money I'd buy it."

I call it the Open Billiards Market buddy system.

Just depends on what the item is I guess.

.

Yep. I can't believe the stuff people fall for.

pt109 · Aug 29, 2019

jrctherake said:
Used don't just mean it's been physically used. When a product has been purchased, it's technically used from that second on.

As to the value, I'd say ~60% of whatever they cost.

If I went to a store to buy a shaft full retail....and they had a brand new one just outta the
shop...and one they’ve had for two years but unused...and they were both straight...
...I’d take the two year old one....it’s proved it can stay straight.

jimmyco · Aug 29, 2019

funnyman said:
I'm aware of the rule of the thumb -- half of retail price is a starting point for the value of used cues. What about unused cues?

- Mid-range factory-made LD shaft
- Purchased from reputable dealer 2 years ago
- Both parties agree it's unused, unchalked and straight

Fair value is what percentage of the current retail price?

Thanks!

LD has come a long way in two years.

Would think the seller is fortunate to get 50%.

jrctherake · Aug 30, 2019

pt109 said:
If I went to a store to buy a shaft full retail....and they had a brand new one just outta the
shop...and one they’ve had for two years but unused...and they were both straight...
...I’d take the two year old one....it’s proved it can stay straight.

Yep me too but, since we bought retail, we can carry it back for refund or replacement or at least repaired for free if it turns out defective.

Apple's to oranges IMO.

Buying used, come on PT, you know darn well you wouldn't give full retail. Sure I've seen it happen on REALLY, REALLY hard to find equipment but, I doubt that is the case or we would've heard about it already.

If you stick to that story, I respect it but, I still don't agree with the logic.

Jeff

jrctherake · Aug 30, 2019

jimmyco said:
LD has come a long way in two years.

Would think the seller is fortunate to get 50%.

I agree and everyone I know would as well.

Pool equipment doesn't exactly hold value very well. Hell, even most mid-level custom jobs lose value when they leave the shop.

Only high end equipment would hold that type value.

logical · Aug 30, 2019

funnyman said:
I'm aware of the rule of the thumb -- half of retail price is a starting point for the value of used cues. What about unused cues?

- Mid-range factory-made LD shaft

- Purchased from reputable dealer 2 years ago

- Both parties agree it's unused, unchalked and straight

Fair value is what percentage of the current retail price?

Thanks!

What something new, or used, is worth outside the retail setting depends on too many things to simply go with a rule of thumb.

Is the item in production and popular still after two years? If you have a two year old Wiz-bang 2 and the manufacturer just released the Wizbang 3 for the same price then you will probably need to price it low.

Let's say it's a popular shaft, still in production and easily available online for $300. You as an individual need to make it attractive to me to not just do two mouse clicks on Ebay or amazon or superbilliardswordonline.com and have it in 2-3 days. Pool players can be flakes at times and even if you aren't...I need an incentive to take that chance. For some buyers, being able to use a credit card is important. Are you able to do that? What about warranty? If is a set member of years it started when first purchased and now as a buyer I have to do all kinds of research to figure out if it is transferable and how to do it.
Buying from a retailer I can return it if I hate it. I wouldn't expect an individual to take a shaft back just because I changed my mind.

If the shaft in question was exactly what I was looking for and still in production I would want to be at 20-25% under the lowest available online retail price to be interested. If the shaft was never that popular or has gone out of favor then how much it would take to get me interested takes a big jump. 50% may excite me but no amount of discount is going to make me buy something I don't want.

If some random guy with a tanker truck is parked in an alley selling gasoline at 25% less than the going rate, sorry but I'm not taking that chance to save a few bucks. If my local gas station has 89 and 93 octane gasoline at 25% off I'm filling up my truck, car, SUV, motorcycle and 5 gallon cans. If they have diesel at 50% off I have no interest...nothing I own burns diesel and I don't own a tanker truck to buy fill it up and flip the fuel to someone who uses diesel.

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pt109 · Aug 30, 2019

jrctherake said:
Yep me too but, since we bought retail, we can carry it back for refund or replacement or at least repaired for free if it turns out defective.

Apple's to oranges IMO.

Buying used, come on PT, you know darn well you wouldn't give full retail. Sure I've seen it happen on REALLY, REALLY hard to find equipment but, I doubt that is the case or we would've heard about it already.

If you stick to that story, I respect it but, I still don't agree with the logic.

Jeff

Yeah...my point of view was as a player....an older shaft that’s straight is more valuable.
...from a business point of view, I’ve offered too much for a cue....and I have turned down
offers for some of my cues even though they were overly generous.

Sweatin' · Aug 30, 2019

logical said:
What something new, or used, is worth outside the retail setting depends on too many things to simply go with a rule of thumb.

Is the item in production and popular still after two years? If you have a two year old Wiz-bang 2 and the manufacturer just released the Wizbang 3 for the same price then you will probably need to price it low.

Let's say it's a popular shaft, still in production and easily available online for $300. You as an individual need to make it attractive to me to not just do two mouse clicks on Ebay or amazon or superbilliardswordonline.com and have it in 2-3 days. Pool players can be flakes at times and even if you aren't...I need an incentive to take that chance. For some buyers, being able to use a credit card is important. Are you able to do that? What about warranty? If is a set member of years it started when first purchased and now as a buyer I have to do all kinds of research to figure out if it is transferable and how to do it.
Buying from a retailer I can return it if I hate it. I wouldn't expect an individual to take a shaft back just because I changed my mind.

If the shaft in question was exactly what I was looking for and still in production I would want to be at 20-25% under the lowest available online retail price to be interested. If the shaft was never that popular or has gone out of favor then how much it would take to get me interested takes a big jump. 50% may excite me but no amount of discount is going to make me buy something I don't want.

If some random guy with a tanker truck is parked in an alley selling gasoline at 25% less than the going rate, sorry but I'm not taking that chance to save a few bucks. If my local gas station has 89 and 93 octane gasoline at 25% off I'm filling up my truck, car, SUV, motorcycle and 5 gallon cans. If they have diesel at 50% off I have no interest...nothing I own burns diesel and I don't own a tanker truck to buy fill it up and flip the fuel to someone who uses diesel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Your screen name is certainly apropos.

But I'm afraid you'll never get anywhere trying to inject said logic and plain ol' common sense. A little hyperbole and emotion might be a better approach.

Kickin' Chicken · Aug 30, 2019

supply and demand always plays a big part in value decisions so there can certainly be some variability.

for me, as an example, if Seybert's Meuller or Neilsen's best sale price on a shaft is say $200 shipped, it would need to be $160 shipped or close to it for me to be interested to get it from a secondary source.

And, the secondary seller would need to have good rep.

best,
brian kc

logical · Aug 30, 2019

Sweatin' said:
Your screen name is certainly apropos.

But I'm afraid you'll never get anywhere trying to inject said logic and plain ol' common sense. A little hyperbole and emotion might be a better approach.

Sorry, I forgot where I was.

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ChrisSjoblom · Aug 30, 2019

I realize the OP is asking for an actual percentage of retail, but as Logical pointed out, there are too many factors to be able to give a "rule of thumb" answer. Because of variables associated with each individual buyer and seller, fair market value changes with every potential sale.

When buying or selling a used item I generally apply the principle that states, "The fair market value of any item is the intersection between what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would pay and a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller would accept." In practice this usually works out to a range of value. For example, let's say I have a cue I am asking $500 for, but privately I am willing to let it go for $400. A prospective buyer wants the cue and offers me $375, but privately he is willing to pay up to $450. The fair market value of the cue in this potential sale (and only in this one) is somewhere between $400 and $450.

If you can't come to a decision with your buyer on this particular cue, you could try something I have used with good results a few times in the past. You write down the least amount for which you are willing to part with the cue. Your buyer writes down the most he is willing to pay. Before you show each other your numbers you agree that if your number is lower than his you will split the difference equally and complete the sale. If your number is higher than his, and neither of you is willing to change your number, just walk away from the deal.

pt109 · Aug 30, 2019

ChrisSjoblom said:
I realize the OP is asking for an actual percentage of retail, but as Logical pointed out, there are too many factors to be able to give a "rule of thumb" answer. Because of variables associated with each individual buyer and seller, fair market value changes with every potential sale.

When buying or selling a used item I generally apply the principle that states, "The fair market value of any item is the intersection between what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would pay and a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller would accept." In practice this usually works out to a range of value. For example, let's say I have a cue I am asking $500 for, but privately I am willing to let it go for $400. A prospective buyer wants the cue and offers me $375, but privately he is willing to pay up to $450. The fair market value of the cue in this potential sale (and only in this one) is somewhere between $400 and $450.

(If you can't come to a decision with your buyer on this particular cue, you could try something I have used with good results a few times in the past. You write down the least amount for which you are willing to part with the cue. Your buyer writes down the most he is willing to pay. Before you show each other your numbers you agree that if your number is lower than his you will split the difference equally and complete the sale. If your number is higher than his, and neither of you is willing to change your number, just walk away from the deal.

This makes a lot of sense.

but some of us like to bargain...it’s a skill, like social engineering...and it can be enjoyable.
i bought and sold a lot of cues in the 80s and 90s.
i remember bargaining for about 20 cues at a tournament with a sales manager,
...at the end, I got the cues at a satisfactory price

...but it took a while..

I told her “Jessica, it doesn’t matter how clever i get, you always get all my money.”
Jessica sez “When I talk to you, I lose ten years off my life.”
...told her “That made my day...now I”m going to the snack bar, who wants coffees?”
Jessica sez “I wish they had $100 coffees.”.....:grin-square:

funnyman · Aug 31, 2019

Thanks everyone for your insight!

This shaft is still manufactured, and this is a deal between familiar players, in person.

I will say, I appreciate the "market value" concepts, but I have a hard time believing that folks who sell used equipment don't have a -- literally -- exact number of the value of each piece of their for-sale equipment.

Like in the examples in posts above, where the buyer and seller have disparate numbers, what percentages of the retail price are those numbers?

I'm leaning toward 25-45% off being fair, but I'd still love to hear some other opinions! Again, thanks everyone.

Chopdoc · Aug 31, 2019

NOS is a term kicked around a lot.

It's only NOS if the retailer still has it in stock.

Once sold it is "NOS condition", but not NOS.

Retail clearance prices apply. Anything from 20% to 50% discount applies unless it is a particularly rare/desirable product for some reason. In such cases it could be worth full MSRP or even more. Too many variables.

Value of "used" equipment

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