Nostroke said:Ok Ill try one
"Ummagummatown"
jay helfert said:I don't see anything wrong with the name AZ Billiards Room. Short and sweet, and sounds like a pool room, which it is. That's what I called it all week, and most everyone seemed to know what and where it was.
Every year (if we keep the same name), it will become more recognizable. I'd like to see a plaque in there memoralizing Tom Ferry (Martin), who was the inspiration for this room.
AZ Billiards is pretty well established in the pool community by now and is a known entity.
Donovan said:This is what I expected and why I was pushing to keep the same name. AZMembers are proud of where they write and share as a collective, as is our brother members at onepocket.org. I think it is a great collaboration and I really don't want to extend it further. If you wanted to make it bigger than it already is, then I would think it would be just like opening it up to the public.
Our friends at the other forums know how to sign-up under one of these 2 forums...if they want to participate, they can sign up. I like that most people already know and recognize the room. I really do want to make some kind of memorial award for Tom "OldHasBeen" Ferry. What a screen name, humble, and anything further from the truth. LOL I think that is the way to go here. We can always work on a poster of the year from each site or something like that, especially if we don't want to be tied up in some mini tournament.
The issue with those people from the sites being called about the room is just a communication thing to deal with. I really the we can overcome that barrier if we work at it. Plus this does benefit them. The more people to their sit e and the popularity to their site the more they should be able to charge for advertising. I think a few phone calls each year should be worth that on it's own. But I am not them and I can't speak for them.
Timberly said:I had merely suggested opening it to the other two forums, not "everyone". Most everyone that posts there posts here too. At best it might add 20 people that aren't on here and I'd be willing to bet that less than half of that 20 actually go to the DCC anyway.
As for the name... whoever organizes the room from here on out (Don & Steve I assume for sure), good luck because as I learned with the raffle, & trying to set deadlines so that I could enjoy my holidays, you can't please everyone.
FYI, for those of you that weren't involved in coordinating the room.... Try donating the little bit of free time you have to supporting and coordinating the room... put out post after post explaining who the organizers are, the rules, the deadlines and who to contact. Then have people completely ignore the multiple posts made, ridicule you for trying to enjoy your holidays, and on top of it all, call Mike Howerton when it comes to the room. I know of at least 3 people, well known in the pool world, 2 of which read this forum regularly, that called Howerton instead of contacting one of the room organizers. Those are just the ones that I know of... I'm sure there's more.
In all of this, Mike Howerton has not been involved in anyway shape or form. Not a single finger raised to help in anyway, not a penny paid, nothing, nada, zilch. That would be and was fine with me until he came in at the "11th hour" right before the DCC and made a post in response to Steve's thread about the rules and who to contact if there were any problems. Howerton posted one of his friends that would be there to contact if there were any problems.
A) Howerton has NOTHING to do with the room, yet felt the need to come in an dictate an authorative figure??
B) He didn't consult any of the organizers on this.
C) The friend of his is not a forum member, doesn't know the organizers well, and was totally unaware of the rules of the room, yet they felt compelled to come into the room and criticize our rules and choices in the way we organized the room.
The idea behind the room was to have a place to relax, shoot pool, and meet face to face with some forum friends. It wasn't to promote AZB, and it wasn't to garner as many pro's as possible... inviting the pro's to shoot challenge matches (which caused problems this yr because one pro thought his friend should be allowed to play in the room... he called Howerton) while a good idea, was an afterthought to the original concept of the room.
If Howerton wants to dictate authorative figures then he can get involved in organizing the room and if Howerton wants to sponsor the room, then focusing on promoting the site could be discussed. Until then, to save the future organizers anymore issues, it would be easier to change the room name altogether. JMO
JAM said:Mike Howerton is the owner of this website that you are posting on. Everybody knows you have a beef with the moderator here, and now you are upset with Mike Howerton.
Timberly, I have never thought of you as being hostile, but the above post seems mean-spirited and is directed at Mike Howerton.
I am sure every single person who attended the AzBilliards room at the DCC is very appreciative of all the time and effort that you and others spent to make this a wonderful happening, to be enjoyed by all who did attend, and for that, you should be thanked a thousand times over.
I did not attend the DCC, but in case anyone hasn't said it, I thank you for everything that you have done to make the DCC a wonderful experience. You're the best!
JAM
sodapopd said:Hostile seems a bit strong of a word for her post.
JAM said:What do you think of the word "dictate"?
JAM
Mike and I aren't exactly what I would call buddies & it's been like that for a long time. However, my post was not to be mean spirited towards Mike, but to let everyone know EXACTLY what is going on.JAM said:Mike Howerton is the owner of this website that you are posting on. Everybody knows you have a beef with the moderator here, and now you are upset with Mike Howerton.
Timberly, I have never thought of you as being hostile, but the above post seems mean-spirited and is directed at Mike Howerton.
Timberly said:Mike and I aren't exactly what I would call buddies & it's been like that for a long time. However, my post was not to be mean spirited towards Mike, but to let everyone know EXACTLY what is going on.
This is Mike's site, yet he's not offered to help or even thanked anyone for the efforts (raffle & organizing). He still gets FREE advertising at the DCC with the room name and big banner.
People call Mike about the room... why? Because he's getting FREE advertising at the DCC with the room name and big banner.
Mike "assigned" (I thought dictate meant the same thing ) a friend as an authorative figure to the room... why? Because the room is named after his site.
Yes, I am slightly bitter at not only Mike's glaring omittance of any appreciation, but at his gall to "assign" a friend to be an authorative figure, and the fact that people call him with questions and issues about the room.
Mike doesn't want to thank, help, or support in anyway shape or form, so why should the room continue to have his name on it? It causes problems when people call him instead of the organizers. It causes problems when he "assigns" authorative figures, but all along, he's getting FREE advertisement at one of, if not the largest event in the US.
Steve Booth on the other hand donated an item to the raffle. He also left the organizers alone and didn't try to "assign" anyone or anything. He didn't complain about the rules or the deadline. He made it a point to thank me (I assume he did WBM & Steve too, I don't know), and he visited the room and took pics and participated.
This has been building up for a while with me and after seeing person after person want to keep the AZ room name & support the site, blah, blah, blah, I figured it was only fair that they know the whole truth. It might not change a single persons mind, and that's ok, but at least they're making an informed decision.
In the end... leaving the name as is causes problems and confusion (fact). IMO, if the site owner isn't willing to help or sponsor, why should they reap the benefits of FREE advertising at such a large event?
Timberly <--- From an organizers standpoint(speaking ONLY for myself & not the others), that's just my opinion on the whole matter.
This is the first time I've ever heard anything out of you about the room (except when you were offering Diana as a go to). Sadly, it's only because I voiced my displeasure in your lack of participation.AzHousePro said:So this is all about me getting "free advertising" at the event and not thanking you? Did you thank me for the free room you got from Greg at the event? No, I don't mean the AzB/One Pocket.org room. I mean the free room you personally got at the event to sleep in.
I worked the InsidePOOL booth which is where my room came from. This can be confirmed by both InsidePOOL and Greg. A free room was part of the deal for my working the booth. Did you pay for the room? Was it your idea to give me a free room? I'm just trying to figure out why I'm supposed to thank you?
I guess the additional stories that we did prior to the event "advertising" it were not part of your equation?
I don't recall any stories prior to the DCC but seeing how your homepage is about pool and pool news, you would've posted stories regardless of the member room or not.
People do not call me because I am getting free advertising. Shawn Putnam called me because he was getting nowhere dealing with you. And the situation was rectified after he called me. As a matter of fact, when I spoke to Willie about the Putnam issue I believe I told him I thought he was doing a great job and I appreciated him doing it.
Shawn Putnam did not speak to anyone at the site about his friend continuing to play in the room after he was politely told the rules on the 2nd day when he was 1st observed playing pool in the room. The 2nd time he was observed playing pool in the room, Steve Lomako handled it with the friend. After being told a 2nd time he couldn't play in the room, Shawn took it upon himself to call you. He didn't approach me or Steve about it. I did speak to Shawn about it later and he said that he just called you because it was the AZ room and he assumed you were the go to person. Hence one of the reasons for suggesting a room name change... confusion.
I did not step in and "assign" Diana as anything. I was simply thinking that it would be nice to have someone else to talk to if forum members had an issue and neither Willie or Steve were available.There were three people to go...Willie, Steve, and myself. If someone wasn't comfortable with one of us, they had two other options... more than enough I would think. At no time did I say that Diana was anything other than someone else that people could go to with any problems. The question still remains... if you weren't involved in any of the matters concerning the room, why step in and give another "option" without so much as even talking to one of the organizers about it?I did not say she was the first person to go to. I did not even say that she was the second person to go to. She was simply someone else that could be talked to about problems, since I knew I would not be there and she was going to be in the room across the hall.
Considering she's not a member, not involved in organizing the room, had no idea about the room rules, what good would it have done for someone to go to her? What was she going to do, call you?
You are angry at my gall in having people call me? So, it was my fault that my phone rang? I apologize profusely to you for having a phone. I will do my best to not let it ring again.
I believe I said you had the gall to assign someone (Diana). I'm not an idiot and I'm well aware that you can't control who calls you.
I did not complain about your deadline. Diana certainly had something to say about it. You're the one that decided to include her... she had her mind made up about our decisions... how did she know about those decisions? Did you share your displeasure with her? I'm just trying to figure out why she would walk into the room on the 1st day and give the members in there a hard time because we shouldn't have had a deadline and we should let anyone play. She heard about these things somehow. I had nothing to do with your raffle. I simply told Greg back in mid 06 that it sounded like the room was a success and I thought it would be nice to do it again. You never came to me and asked if I minded you using the AzB name for your raffle and it didn't really bother me.Last yr you gave your approval to use the az name for the room... the raffle was named after the room, which you had already given approval for. If you had come to me and asked for an item, I would have been glad to donate one.If you were willing to donate something towards the raffle, why sit back and wait to be asked? If you really cared about the raffle and what it was about, why not do like Steve Booth and so many others... come to me and offer something? I also would have been glad to put something on the main site itself about the room and/or raffle. Again, if you cared about it, and something like that crossed your mind, why not offer it instead of sitting back waiting to be asked? I was slightly busy trying to keep track of the donated items and the people buying tickets. I'm human, I'm busy, I can't think of everything. Most people realized that and offered items & services. I would have been happy to run the entire raffle myself if someone had simply said it needed to be ran. But you ran with this ball all on your own.
The raffle was my idea and grew much bigger than I expected it to be. Having not ever heard anything (last yr or this yr) from you and your thoughts or support of the room, why would going to you for help ever cross my mind? If you were willing to help, why not do like others (thank you again Donovan!) and offer to help?
I did not visit the room or take pictures inside it. I was not at the event. Diana was there taking pictures for me and I posted quite a few of them.
I realize you weren't there, my point was and still is, you did not participate in matters concerning the room.
I had hesitated in responding in this thread earlier, but I thought it might be nice to let the forum members know EXACTLY what the situation was instead of your personal view of the situation.
Mike
Timberly said:I worked the InsidePOOL booth which is where my room came from. This can be confirmed by both InsidePOOL and Greg. A free room was part of the deal for my working the booth. Did you pay for the room? Was it your idea to give me a free room? I'm just trying to figure out why I'm supposed to thank you?
Timberly said:I don't recall any stories prior to the DCC but seeing how your homepage is about pool and pool news, you would've posted stories regardless of the member room or not.
Timberly said:There were three people to go...Willie, Steve, and myself. If someone wasn't comfortable with one of us, they had two other options... more than enough I would think.
Timberly said:The question still remains... if you weren't involved in any of the matters concerning the room, why step in and give another "option" without so much as even talking to one of the organizers about it?
Timberly said:Diana certainly had something to say about it. You're the one that decided to include her... she had her mind made up about our decisions... how did she know about those decisions? Did you share your displeasure with her? I'm just trying to figure out why she would walk into the room on the 1st day and give the members in there a hard time because we shouldn't have had a deadline and we should let anyone play. She heard about these things somehow.
Timberly said:Last yr you gave your approval to use the az name for the room... the raffle was named after the room, which you had already given approval for.
Timberly said:If you were willing to donate something towards the raffle, why sit back and wait to be asked? If you really cared about the raffle and what it was about, why not do like Steve Booth and so many others... come to me and offer something?
Timberly said:I was slightly busy trying to keep track of the donated items and the people buying tickets. I'm human, I'm busy, I can't think of everything.
Timberly said:The raffle was my idea and grew much bigger than I expected it to be. Having not ever heard anything (last yr or this yr) from you and your thoughts or support of the room, why would going to you for help ever cross my mind? If you were willing to help, why not do like others (thank you again Donovan!) and offer to help?
Timberly said:I realize you weren't there, my point was and still is, you did not participate in matters concerning the room.
Timberly said:This is the first time I've ever heard anything out of you about the room (except when you were offering Diana as a go to). Sadly, it's only because I voiced my displeasure in your lack of participation.[/Timberly]
Again, I was not aware that I had to run my opinions by you for your approval on things that had the AzB name.
Timberly said:As for the free advertising... I never said anyone (Greg or anyone else) should be upset about it. I was stating that it was something that annoyed me due to your lack of participation/support for the room and all that the folks (organizers, raffle donators, helpers like Donovan) did to make it happen. That's one of the reasons(personal reason, some agree, some don't) I have for wanting a room name change. The other is because of the confusion of people calling you because it's got your website as the name.
So, Gregg is perfectly happy with the "Free" advertising that the site got as well as the coverage on the site of his event. But since YOU personally don't like it, the name of the room should change?
Sounds an awful lot like "It is all about Timberly" to me.
Mike
I'm currently typing up my DCC experience post. I opened up a new window to find a quote and found your response so I answered. Just so you know, I am true to my word.... now that the DCC stuff is winding down and I'm finally feeling well enough to make my post, I will keep my word to you and leave the site. I will stop by once in a blue moon to do what I like to do... be helpful. Those times will be scarce and you and Wilson will have me out of your hair.AzHousePro said:Hmm, that is funny. I spoke to Greg today and he said the room that he gave you was based on the AzB room. Might want to get your stories straight.
Greg, did offer me a room but I told him that I already committed to working the InsidePOOL booth and that a room was part of my payment and I asked if I could take a rain check. He said yes, and that was that. I've no reason to lie outright in public about this. You still failed to mention why I'm supposed to thank you for Greg's offer.
I didn't say that Diana was there if someone was not comfortable with one of you. I said she was and could help if Willie or Steve were not available. Not comfortable and not available are two different things.
This is the 2nd time you've failed to mention that there was a 3rd person available (me) to go to. Freudian slip?
Because whether you like it or not, the AzBilliards forums are part of AzBilliards. If someone in the room was to cause a problem, Greg would be calling me. He called me to see who the point person was when the room was being planned and he suggested Willie.
Knowing WBM, Steve, and myself were the room organizers, why would he go to you?
I gave my approval to use the AzB name. I did not give anyone approval to hold an online raffle using the AzB name. A raffle that could have been less than 100% legal. Had the authorities stepped in, who do you think they would have contacted? Me or you? A user who already said she was leaving the site after Derby or the owner of the site?
If you were really that concerned about it, you would've contacted me to end the raffle. At best, the authorities would've called you for my contact info but since my contact info was posted, I doubt they would have. I only learned the raffle wasn't 100% legal when Deno Andrews threatend and then actually tried to get someone to report me for the raffle. It seems he got in trouble for something close to what I was doing. The difference is, he was running a "charity" raffle online but it was also for his own profit. I didn't keep a single penny (I spent my own money on some things) and I had/have full accounting of everything.
To be honest, I didn't know anything about the raffle until you had already started taking bids for items. As I have said before, I do not have the time nor desire to read every single thread on the forums. I rely on users to report threads when they are out of line.
This is your response to my saying "If you were willing to donate something towards the raffle, why sit back and wait to be asked? If you really cared about the raffle and what it was about, why not do like Steve Booth and so many others... come to me and offer something?" The raffle ran for 8 months and most people that contributed didn't donate until they knew about it, which was after it started. IMO, your reasoning above for not donating to the raffle is weak. Again, JMO.
If you decide that something needs to be done and decide to do it all on your own, then don't complain when it takes up time.
You said "I also would have been glad to put something on the main site itself about the room and/or raffle."
I said "Again, if you cared about it, and something like that crossed your mind, why not offer it instead of sitting back waiting to be asked? I was slightly busy trying to keep track of the donated items and the people buying tickets. I'm human, I'm busy, I can't think of everything. Most people realized that and offered items & services."
The best response you could come with for that is your above response in blue?
Either way, I stated that it grew bigger than I expected. Unforeseen things like job changes and medical problems also arised. I still went through with it and finished it.
If you would like to compare the amount of time we each spend handling things related to AzBilliards, just let me know.
You own the site, not me. I've helped support this site more than you helped me or the other room organizers.
I wasn't aware that you were the person in charge of the room this year.
I said "The raffle was my idea and grew much bigger than I expected it to be. Having not ever heard anything (last yr or this yr) from you and your thoughts or support of the room, why would going to you for help ever cross my mind? If you were willing to help, why not do like others (thank you again Donovan!) and offer to help?"
Your response makes no sense in reference to what you quoted me saying.
FTR, I never said that I was in charge. There were three people in charge of the room and all that it entailed... Don, Steve, and myself.
Again, whether you like it or not, I am involved with those decisions. Greg contacted me before the 06 room and again months before the 07 room.
Hence the reason, I voted in favor of changing the room name.
There are some decisions that get made behind the scenes and you are not consulted for all of those decisions.
I wasn't consulted on anything from your end that had to do with the room, even though (much to your displeasure) I was an organizer.
So, Gregg is perfectly happy with the "Free" advertising that the site got as well as the coverage on the site of his event. But since YOU personally don't like it, the name of the room should change?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. That just happens to be mine.
Sounds an awful lot like "It is all about Timberly" to me.
So it's ok for you to have your opinions but when I have one, it's all about me.
Mike
Timberly said:Greg, did offer me a room but I told him that I already committed to working the InsidePOOL booth and that a room was part of my payment and I asked if I could take a rain check. He said yes, and that was that. I've no reason to lie outright in public about this. You still failed to mention why I'm supposed to thank you for Greg's offer.
Timberly said:This is the 2nd time you've failed to mention that there was a 3rd person available (me) to go to. Freudian slip?
Timberly said:Knowing WBM, Steve, and myself were the room organizers, why would he go to you?
Timberly said:If you were really that concerned about it, you would've contacted me to end the raffle. At best, the authorities would've called you for my contact info but since my contact info was posted, I doubt they would have. I only learned the raffle wasn't 100% legal when Deno Andrews threatend and then actually tried to get someone to report me for the raffle. It seems he got in trouble for something close to what I was doing. The difference is, he was running a "charity" raffle online but it was also for his own profit. I didn't keep a single penny (I spent my own money on some things) and I had/have full accounting of everything.
Timberly said:To be honest, I didn't know anything about the raffle until you had already started taking bids for items. As I have said before, I do not have the time nor desire to read every single thread on the forums. I rely on users to report threads when they are out of line.
This is your response to my saying "If you were willing to donate something towards the raffle, why sit back and wait to be asked? If you really cared about the raffle and what it was about, why not do like Steve Booth and so many others... come to me and offer something?" The raffle ran for 8 months and most people that contributed didn't donate until they knew about it, which was after it started. IMO, your reasoning above for not donating to the raffle is weak. Again, JMO.
Timberly said:I said "Again, if you cared about it, and something like that crossed your mind, why not offer it instead of sitting back waiting to be asked? I was slightly busy trying to keep track of the donated items and the people buying tickets. I'm human, I'm busy, I can't think of everything. Most people realized that and offered items & services."
The best response you could come with for that is your above response in blue?
Timberly said:You own the site, not me. I've helped support this site more than you helped me or the other room organizers.
Timberly said:FTR, I never said that I was in charge. There were three people in charge of the room and all that it entailed... Don, Steve, and myself.
Timberly said:I wasn't consulted on anything from your end that had to do with the room, even though (much to your displeasure) I was an organizer.
Timberly said:So it's ok for you to have your opinions but when I have one, it's all about me.