Not even sure that type of game play is possible.
When he is in the midst of running 3-6 racks in a row, when do I get my bih?
United Billiard League
- Thread starter UBL.NYC
- Start date
Not even sure that type of game play is possible.
When he is in the midst of running 3-6 racks in a row, when do I get my bih?
8 and all the breaks. might break even then...
Oh, forgot to mention, it's NOT winner breakslol
The fact he can not break and run is a big change.
Yeah, I guess 1 per game might be possible, perhaps favorable.
Still interviewing backers. Guess my phone must be off line. Please try pm.
You want the 8 with the breaks against SVB, with no bih? Um, I think you got action, anyone got SVB on speed dial
lol
I have no skin in this game. Even still, I will offer a different perspective: They have one year under their belt. Everyone was paid. Innovation and start-ups are hard.
I have Peter Margo as a friend on Facebook, and he has posted in support of UBL, and to be frank... Having a player like Pete Margo supporting it.... actually DOESN'T leave a good taste in my mouth. There is no way a player of Pete's ability is gonna be like, "Four ball-in-hands a game for 8 ball for beginners? What's not to like?"
And so... obvious he's supporting it because he's getting a cut.
Which means it's not about growing pool. It's about getting a cut. Same as TSPN.
And so... obvious he's supporting it because he's getting a cut.
Which means it's not about growing pool. It's about getting a cut. Same as TSPN.
Imagine playing golf against Tiger Woods where your handicap is that you get to pick up and throw your ball with no penalty once or twice per hole.
Now imagine this from Tiger's point of view.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to play either. No self-respecting professional would demean themselves like that.
Now imagine this from Tiger's point of view.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to play either. No self-respecting professional would demean themselves like that.
southernfried
Registered
I first posted this in a different forum in August but am reposting here since this thread seems to be getting more action. This post has a couple of minor updates from the original. Southern Fried
OK, I read all the UBL posts on this forum and I'm going to do something I seldom do. Post on AZBilliards. Not that I have anything against the site. I just research more than I post. I post about once a year as I recall. Feel free to respond or comment whether you agree or not. Just don't look for a timely reply. I'm lucky to be on here more than once a month or so.
Full disclosure on the author. I played the game a lot prior to the advent of leagues from about 1959 -1964 and 1967-1970. Then a 29 year break to take care of some minor issues; earning a living, and raising a family. Started back in the game when I retired in 2009 and I've been playing APA 8-Ball since then. I like it. I have a reasonable game (APA 8-Ball SL5) but make no pretense of being ready to play with the "big boys." Might make it to Vegas, might not. Still a cheap night out once a week either way.
Now to the United Billiard Leagues.
1. Like all leagues in all sports, "there is no one size fits all." Especially where handicapping is in place. Some people will like the format, some won't. No handicapping system is completely "sandbagger free." There will always be those who try to manipulate the system. Especially where money is concerned. All any system can do is make an effort to lessen the chances of the cheaters being successful. My guess is that the system will be tweaked as the league matures.
2. If you haven't tried it, either in the UBL league or by subjectively handicapping your playing buddies and trying out the format, you're still entitled to an opinion but not to knock those that want to find out for themselves if they like the format. You can find the rules at www.unitedbilliardleagues.com.
3. The handicapping via ball-in-hand may surprise you. I joined a team in a new (to UBL) venue. To begin with some of the better 8-ball players (APA 6 and 7s) were having fits trying to beat APA 3, 4 and 5s when both they and the lower players each had 3 BIH before enough weeks were played for handicaps to adjust to real skill levels. Probably because they didn't take the lower level players seriously and suddenly found they missed when their opponent had three BIH left and only three balls plus the eight left on the table. All matches are a race to 4 so you better pay attention. Otherwise you might find you're one miss away from a loss to someone you didn't take seriously.
4. The weekly fee is reasonable and even if you never make a dollar in playoff money, you still had a night out for a few bucks and got to play pool to boot. Oh, look, that's the same as the APA league. I don't play BCA or any other leagues so I can't make a judgment there since I don't know how they work payouts (if any).
5. There's a lot of talk in this forum and elsewhere about weaker players never improving in this format. And, that's true if the elitist abandon them to struggle on their own. Oh, look, that's also true in other league formats. Remember, as they improve in skill they will get fewer BIH per rack.
6. Stronger players should always be doing all they can to help weaker team members become better. Here's a simple rule, the better a player is the more fun he/she has and the more likely they'll continue with the game.
7. I saw some talk about pool rooms only wanting to make money. No kidding. Why put up with all us folks of the pool player mentality otherwise. The more money they make, the more likely they will stay in the business, the more rooms that stay in business, the more places we have to enjoy the game. I don't see a down side there. The UBL division I'm in has attracted some players that didn't play in other leagues. So, new players mean more money to the venue...
8. Slow play in the UBL finals. No argument there but you did have rank amateurs playing for $100,000 first prize. And, if you watch some pro tournaments, for a lot less money, and not using a shot clock, on YouTube the play is much slower for some players than I saw on the UBL final (and I watched every minute of it).
9. Bottom Line. I like the UBL format. I hope it succeeds and remains as an option for us. Give it a one season try and then make up your mind based on experience, not unsupported opinion. I still play on my APA team and added a night of play for the UBL. So far I like it and I'll definitely finish out the season before making a final decision either way.
10. Additional comments now that I've completed a few week's UBL play: A) I'm known for using safety play. This league will make you rethink how you play a rack. More than once I habitually played a lockup safety only to realize my opponent had a BIH left and used it to get out of trouble and go on to win the rack. B) unlike the playoffs on YouTube, the matches go quickly since the BIH greatly reduces the time for each rack. My APA league usually winds up around 11:00 - 11:30 PM, the UBL league around 10:00 - 10:30 PM. Both leagues start at 7:00 PM. Same venue and same tables.
Cheers y'all, Southern Fried.
QUOTE=southernfried;6483612]
5. There's a lot of talk in this forum and elsewhere about weaker players never improving in this format. And, that's true if the elitist abandon them to struggle on their own. Oh, look, that's also true in other league formats. Remember, as they improve in skill they will get fewer BIH per rack.
6. Stronger players should always be doing all they can to help weaker team members become better. Here's a simple rule, the better a player is the more fun he/she has and the more likely they'll continue with the game. Cheers y'all, Southern Fried.[/QUOTE]
Pertaining to #5. There have been more that a few times that I've closed down the pool hall staying after league helping players that have asked for free pool advice/lessons. Problem is...over the years I fell like there should be a lot more lower skill level players asking for this type of help, but it truly seems to me that most of them don't care if they improve or not.
Pertaining to #6. Once again, it seems that a LOT of league players simply do not care if they improve or not. I have witnessed over the years countless teammates that don't even like it when you call a time out on them, yet they don't like to lose. Go figure.
Maniac
5. There's a lot of talk in this forum and elsewhere about weaker players never improving in this format. And, that's true if the elitist abandon them to struggle on their own. Oh, look, that's also true in other league formats. Remember, as they improve in skill they will get fewer BIH per rack.
6. Stronger players should always be doing all they can to help weaker team members become better. Here's a simple rule, the better a player is the more fun he/she has and the more likely they'll continue with the game. Cheers y'all, Southern Fried.[/QUOTE]
Pertaining to #5. There have been more that a few times that I've closed down the pool hall staying after league helping players that have asked for free pool advice/lessons. Problem is...over the years I fell like there should be a lot more lower skill level players asking for this type of help, but it truly seems to me that most of them don't care if they improve or not.
Pertaining to #6. Once again, it seems that a LOT of league players simply do not care if they improve or not. I have witnessed over the years countless teammates that don't even like it when you call a time out on them, yet they don't like to lose. Go figure.
Maniac
The simple strategy for the better players who have to give multiple BIH's per game is quite obvious.
On your first turn, if you can't run out, then start tying up your opponents balls so your opponent has to burn through the BIH's to break out stuff. And as soon as they are out of BIH, then play safe and run yourself out. I don't see any other way to win consistently.
And to be honest, not really a fun night of pool imho to have to play like that. Kind of defeats the purpose of going out and trying to getter better (yeah, even good players need to keep improving)
Of course, I could be wrong, and if there is a UBL league in Chicago, I'll give it an honest shot.
On your first turn, if you can't run out, then start tying up your opponents balls so your opponent has to burn through the BIH's to break out stuff. And as soon as they are out of BIH, then play safe and run yourself out. I don't see any other way to win consistently.
And to be honest, not really a fun night of pool imho to have to play like that. Kind of defeats the purpose of going out and trying to getter better (yeah, even good players need to keep improving)
Of course, I could be wrong, and if there is a UBL league in Chicago, I'll give it an honest shot.
southernfried
Registered
Pertaining to #5. There have been more that a few times that I've closed down the pool hall staying after league helping players that have asked for free pool advice/lessons. Problem is...over the years I fell like there should be a lot more lower skill level players asking for this type of help, but it truly seems to me that most of them don't care if they improve or not.
Pertaining to #6. Once again, it seems that a LOT of league players simply do not care if they improve or not. I have witnessed over the years countless teammates that don't even like it when you call a time out on them, yet they don't like to lose. Go figure.
Maniac[/QUOTE]
Kudos for helping out the weaker players. I agree not everyone wants to get better. I've participated in other handicapped sports as well (bowling and golf) and there are always those more interested in protecting their handicap than getting better. Not an attitude I understand but not a lot we can do about that. Me, I'll play anybody (but not for $$) that's willing to get on the table with me. Love the challenge. I'm a big believer in "if you want to get better compete against those that force you to get better."
southernfried
Registered
I think there is a venue in the Chicago area. Seems I saw one listed on the UBL web page under the venues tab. Not sure where it is, I haven't been in that area since I lived in one of the 'burbs in the late 1980's.
Re: Use up their BIH with safeties. Doesn't work as well as you might think (voice of experience here) against the higher BIH folks. Lock them up, they take a BIH, get out of trouble, make a couple of balls, take more BIH and run out on you. If you're going to try it do it early while there are plenty of your object balls still on the table, That way they at least have to maneuver around some traffic.
I don't think you read my post correctly. I didn't say use up their BIHs with safeties. I said, if you can't run out (that's early in the game when most balls are on the table) then start tying up their balls. Yeah, it will tie up yours too, but the good players will break them out without BIH. Thus, when they get BIH they must use it on the tied up balls. Do that 3 times and they are out of BIHs.