Kamui chalk version 1.21 is awesome!

TheThaiger said:

Still abusive as ever, i see. But to answer your questions; yes, no, N/A, yes.

So tell me, how does a company like Kamui produce genuinely new products without spending a large amount of money? Don't you get you're paying for the development costs and not the cube?

kamui, unlike some, don't cash-in. They innovate.

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Comparing apples to shephards pie. Totally different.

Do I think they spent TONS and TONS of money in R&D? Absolutely not -- not what they imply. The biggest pool-only companies in the world are still SMALL companies. Do I think they're pulling in VC/institutional funding for chalk development -- no. Do I think that they feel they have a good idea and want to create an aura around their chalk so people pay $30/cube? Of course.

Do I believe for one second they need to charge $30 / cube because of manufacturing? You mean to tell me that $4320 / gross is required to offset manufacturing costs? Unless they're manufacturing this "make-up" on the dark side of the moon and having aliens transport them to S4 so they can be distributed to the rest of the world via unicorns and golden carriages, it's not gonna fly with me.

If you wanna take the stance that a $50 instructional DVD (for any sport) is along the same lines as the above, good luck with your argument. I'm really a nice guy, so I don't MEAN to be abusive to you. But, sometimes you post such stupid things it appears as though you're TRYING to troll because even a cave man would understand the concept of "value."

I'm not knocking their product. I'm knocking the price --- and I feel "sorry" for those who think it really helps their game to any real degree.

Reminds me of when I first saw that oxy clean commercial on tv (you know, the one where they pour wine and food coloring into a fish bowl full of water, swirl in oxy clean and the water turned clear). I bought that crap with the quickness. As soon as my dog shit on the carpet, I whipped out my oxy clean and guess what? The carpet was still shit-up, just a little lighter in color. That chalk isn't helping anyone's game period. If you guys miscue, chalk after every shot. If you still miscue - get a lesson.

RunoutJJ said:

The bangers are the life blood for all pool gadgets and gizmos. I really need to come up with some crazy toy, gadget or method that will help any body that VALUES their game.. This------> :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Lol.......I can buy 144 pcs of Master Chalk for under $20. I think I'll take my chances with that!.............."A business man once told me of a story he was once told.....the man told him, when you go to America, come up with a product, any product....the people will buy it!!.........Case in point!

I recently bought a cube. It should be in the mailbox today and I'm gonna give it a shot. To me it is no different than paying $40 or $50 to have the newest and hottest tip installed only to find out you don't like it and cutting it off a few days later. There are always new products coming out that claim to improve your game. Some do and some don't. i'm sure when all the low deflection shafts came out some of the same people scoffed at the idea. I think those have worked out pretty well. So I say if you have not given it a legitimate shot, how can you run it down?

I'm sure there are a million posts here somewhere, but since chalk is the discussion, how does Silver Cup compare to Master?

(Disregard the above... found the million posts I didn't look for earlier.)

SpiderWebComm said:

Comparing apples to shephards pie. Totally different.

Do I think they spent TONS and TONS of money in R&D? Absolutely not -- not what they imply. The biggest pool-only companies in the world are still SMALL companies. Do I think they're pulling in VC/institutional funding for chalk development -- no. Do I think that they feel they have a good idea and want to create an aura around their chalk so people pay $30/cube? Of course.

Do I believe for one second they need to charge $30 / cube because of manufacturing? You mean to tell me that $4320 / gross is required to offset manufacturing costs? Unless they're manufacturing this "make-up" on the dark side of the moon and having aliens transport them to S4 so they can be distributed to the rest of the world via unicorns and golden carriages, it's not gonna fly with me.

If you wanna take the stance that a $50 instructional DVD (for any sport) is along the same lines as the above, good luck with your argument. I'm really a nice guy, so I don't MEAN to be abusive to you. But, sometimes you post such stupid things it appears as though you're TRYING to troll because even a cave man would understand the concept of "value."

I'm not knocking their product. I'm knocking the price --- and I feel "sorry" for those who think it really helps their game to any real degree.

Reminds me of when I first saw that oxy clean commercial on tv (you know, the one where they pour wine and food coloring into a fish bowl full of water, swirl in oxy clean and the water turned clear). I bought that crap with the quickness. As soon as my dog shit on the carpet, I whipped out my oxy clean and guess what? The carpet was still shit-up, just a little lighter in color. That chalk isn't helping anyone's game period. If you guys miscue, chalk after every shot. If you still miscue - get a lesson.

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So, you're not knocking the product, you're knocking the price. Er, like, hello!?

As for the costs associated with product development, you are simply speculating. The second cancer-curing pill off the production line costs .00005c to produce. The cost of the first pill can be incalculable.

I see precisely no difference between this and JB's video. But we all choose our poison, and I choose the chalk, as I'm king of the miscue and don't find banking that difficult, or even necessary.

SpiderWebComm said:

Well, that's my point. I was just quoting from his post above mine ($50). It certainly didn't cost $200 to print/bind the book -- so that must be a heist as well.

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What book costs $200? Aren't all books around the same price, with the best and most popular earning their authors' a fortune through selling more than the poorer titles?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

TheThaiger said:

What book costs $200?

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The ones that help you calculate the 'incalculable'.

It's funny how a $25 cube of chalk that actually does even better than it's advertised to do, and has so far pleased everybody who has actually made the effort to try it, stirs up all kinds of controversy over the price...

But when sombody shows up with an overpriced $3000 custom cue, that doesn't play any better than a $500 production cue and does nothing for one's game, that only stirs admiration.

abs said:

It's funny how a $25 cube of chalk that actually does even better than it's advertised to do, and has so far pleased everybody who has actually made the effort to try it, stirs up all kinds of controversy over the price...

But when sombody shows up with an overpriced $3000 custom cue, that doesn't play any better than a $500 production cue and does nothing for one's game, that only stirs admiration.

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Welcome to the wonderful world of AZB!

brophog said:

The ones that help you calculate the 'incalculable'.

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Ah. Money well spent.

abs said:

It's funny how a $25 cube of chalk that actually does even better than it's advertised to do, and has so far pleased everybody who has actually made the effort to try it, stirs up all kinds of controversy over the price...

But when sombody shows up with an overpriced $3000 custom cue, that doesn't play any better than a $500 production cue and does nothing for one's game, that only stirs admiration.

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You are painting with a broad stroke. Several people have tried it out, including me that did not think there was enough of a difference in performance compared to Masters or Blue Diamond to warrant the additional cost.

If you, or others feel that it has an increased value over the other options, that's your opinion to which you are certainly entitled. However, those of us who have tried it, and decided it wasn't worth the increased cost are also entitled to our opinions. Both are equally valid depending on the individual's perspective.

I wonder what people called mingaud the first time they saw him show up with a piece of leather stuck to the tip of his cue.

I also like this quote from the history of snooker and billiards "Between Carr and Bartley, it was discovered how "side" (sidespin) could be used to the advantage of players, and Carr began selling chalk in small boxes. He called it "twisting powder", and the magical impression this gave the public enabled him to sell it for a higher price than if they realized it was simply chalk in a small box."

I remember 20'ish years ago when people started raving about predator shafts and others laughed and told them "a shaft is a shaft".

You have people who'll pay $8 for a $0.45 tip that's been dipped in cows milk, goat milk, camel milk, great grandma's last drop of titty milk and some people swear by those tips.

I don't know why people get so upset over others spending $30 for chalk. Maybe Kamui chalk is the same 200yr old chalk in a box, but if people buy it and it gives them more confidence in their stroke then i guess it's doing something worthwhile for them.

Lumocolor said:

I wonder what people called mingaud the first time they saw him show up with a piece of leather stuck to the tip of his cue.

I also like this quote from the history of snooker and billiards "Between Carr and Bartley, it was discovered how "side" (sidespin) could be used to the advantage of players, and Carr began selling chalk in small boxes. He called it "twisting powder", and the magical impression this gave the public enabled him to sell it for a higher price than if they realized it was simply chalk in a small box."

I remember 20'ish years ago when people started raving about predator shafts and others laughed and told them "a shaft is a shaft".

You have people who'll pay $8 for a $0.45 tip that's been dipped in cows milk, goat milk, camel milk, great grandma's last drop of titty milk and some people swear by those tips.

I don't know why people get so upset over others spending $30 for chalk. Maybe Kamui chalk is the same 200yr old chalk in a box, but if people buy it and it gives them more confidence in their stroke then i guess it's doing something worthwhile for them.

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Kamui chalk doesn't give the same characteristics to the tip that a leather vs non leather gave in the 1800s. Really the biggest benefit is Kamui slightly reduces the amount of chalking that needs to be applied. Regular chalk, if applied after each shot, does the job just fine. If somebody likes what Kamui bring to the table I am not going to bust them up for that. Personally speaking I will not being buying a piece of chalk for that price. Somebody needs to get to the market with a good knock off that is cheap.

i hear this stuff dries out

I am amazed that people will spend thousands on a cue but baulk at spending $30 on a cube of chalk that will last for many, many months. Buy one cube, try it for a week and if it doesn't deliver as promised simply sell it to someone because it's in big demand and someone will buy it.

I play with kamui and think that there is a dramatic difference between it and conventional chalk. It grips the cue ball much better resulting in increased spin; last far longer on the tip required far fewer applications and gives me increased confidence when using extreme spin because I know that I won't miscue.

Complaints about the price are one thing but this chalk delivers on its performance claims and then some...

really the banger's???

RunoutJJ said:

The bangers are the life blood for all pool gadgets and gizmos. I really need to come up with some crazy toy, gadget or method that will help any body that VALUES their game.. This------> :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I'd just like to point out that I didn't even consider getting it until a friend of mine, you may have heard of him, Louis Ulrich, was playing with it and I asked him about and he said he loved it, at least he loved it a lot more than their tips.

And most people who know my game would refrain from calling me a banger too...

Jaden

just call me lazy

are there any pro's who use kamui chalk?

thefonz said:

are there any pro's who use kamui chalk?

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Haven't seen a one on Ustream or recorded matches on Youtube and I watch a lot.

dr9ball said:

You are painting with a broad stroke. Several people have tried it out, including me that did not think there was enough of a difference in performance compared to Masters or Blue Diamond to warrant the additional cost.

If you, or others feel that it has an increased value over the other options, that's your opinion to which you are certainly entitled. However, those of us who have tried it, and decided it wasn't worth the increased cost are also entitled to our opinions. Both are equally valid depending on the individual's perspective.

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I'm with Rufus. I tried it for a week and it did as promised. I couldn't believe how far out I could strike the cue ball without miscuing. I did 7 trick shots, one game of 9 ball and a game of one pocket with only one application without miscuing, can't do that with Masters. It does work. It also leaves streaks on the table and a small goop on the cue ball no matter how lightly you apply it, I've tried. But, I went back to Masters. I like to chalk between every shot and I rarely miscue with it and if I do, Kumui wouldn't even help. I never have to use the english that far outside the cue ball anyway. Plus, I leave my chalk on the table all the time.
Please stop comparing $1000 cues with chalk or even LD shafts (I play with a $350 cue). You can have the cue or shaft till you die or even make a great profit if you sell it(depending on the maker). Tips are $20-30 and will last me a year, plus. Kamui chalk will be gone in a few months the way i chalk.

And please, don't tell me I don't value my game if I don't use Kamui Chalk. :angry:

Kamui makes great products, tips & chalk, I just don't use them, I have though. People can do whatever the hell they want to with there money. If they think this chalk helps there stroke or it gives them extra confidence, then it's worth the money. Shouldn't knock anyone who buys it and same to the people who choose not too. :thumbup:

I have not tried the new version, if its not as pasty then it might be okay for me. I tried the old one and did not like it because of it being pasty. I do miscue on occasion like many people do but if I do not get lazy and have a good pre-shot routine of chalking before every shot then it lowers the chance of a miscue unless I hit the ball with a bad stroke.

Well,

Rufus hit the nail- there is absolutley no reason to bash each other for a product someone likes..and the other does not like.

I tested it also- (0.98) and i liket it. I m playin also since 1980 and i can shoot 2 balls in a row also with master or whatever kind of chalk.
But i like the feel to chalk for example (of the Kamui chalk) really.

If someone is willing to spend the price,there s no need to bash him for that (i became it as a present, to be honest,- came with a new case). And i m looking forward to the new version. If the marks on the cueball are fixed now with the new version, i ll get one of the new version for sure.

lg
Ingo