Breaking Mosconi's 526

huckster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone,
I have always wanted to see pool's most known record (Mosconi running 526) challenged and possibly eclipsed. I have been an avid player and lifelong fan of pool. I am very fortunate to be in a financial position to do something in pool for both mine and "the pool world's" satisfaction. Since I no longer play pool I really want to see someone break the 526 mark. I want to try to find sponsership or to try to obtain an insurance policy (i.e Lloyd's of London) in conjunction with a sizable contribution from my own funds, to see if I could raise a guaranteed 1 million prize to anyone that could break Willie's 526. I want to set up a "loose" if possible Diamond at most major tournaments and charge a nominal ($100) entry to try and find a champion to run 527. I am willing to put my money in this venture if I can secure a policy or additional sponsership to make this happen. Anyone that has any ideas please share them with me. Fortunatly I am in a position where I can make something like this happen and it would be great for the game. It may draw interest to a lost artform (14.1) Greg Sullivan please PM me with a way to get a hold of you I would like your input about your tables for this. This could be like the million dollar challenge that Earl won, but with this whomever could break the record would get the advertised prize (whatever that would be I want to at least make it a mill, I will heavily support this). I think I can make this happen any ideas please share them.
 
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Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I would suggest several tables as one wont be enough as those high runs take forever,so i would say atleast 5 tables.Then i would charge a $100 a head but at the end of the event i would give the person with the highest run a percentage of the entries so they still walk with something decent. ;)
 

av84fun

Banned
Sir...congratulations to you for conceiving of this novel and interesting challenge. I wish you well.

However, I don't think there is anyone alive today who could come close. None of the top pros of today have dedicated decades of their lives almost exclusively to 14.1.

And those who did back in the day, like Willie, ran 125-50 and out did so only 10% of the time or less.

In spite of straight pool's well deserved reputation for involving less luck than 9 Ball, it certainly is not devoid of luck as the above statistic shows.

Breaking into the rack and into secondary clusters involves a meaningful degree of luck that often conspires to end runs at the 25-50 ball mark.

In addition, leaving an ideal break shot, in itself, is no walk in the park.

All told, I would guess (because I don't have actual statistics) is that the average run of the top pros of the Mosconi era (and earlier) after the first open break shot would be between 35-50 balls suggesting that it would take 10 -15 attempts to get to 526.

That all goes to show what a spectacular feat it was...and Babe Cranfield's run of 768 in practice in the presence of credible witnesses.

But I doubt that many players would part with even $100.00 to even try.

But again, I applaud your creativity and generosity.

Regards,
Jim
 

av84fun

Banned
Fast Lenny said:
I would suggest several tables as one wont be enough as those high runs take forever,so i would say atleast 5 tables.Then i would charge a $100 a head but at the end of the event i would give the person with the highest run a percentage of the entries so they still walk with something decent. ;)

Excellent idea and similar to Bob Jewett's Straight Pool Challenge at DCC.

Numerous players would compete for the high run prize and the million dollar "Mosconi Prize" would certainly add some marketing pizzaz.

Regards,
Jim
 

the420trooper

Free T-Rex
Silver Member
I think John Schmidt could make this happen in a couple of months, if there's a million dollar prize. He may be the best straight pool player alive, and if given this kind of incentive, he would work at it, day after day. He would evenually have a day where he didn't make any errors at all.
 

Jimmy M.

Insomniac
Silver Member
av84fun said:
However, I don't think there is anyone alive today who could come close. None of the top pros of today have dedicated decades of their lives almost exclusively to 14.1.

Thomas Engert ran 491. That's pretty close as far as I'm concerned.
 

Jimmy M.

Insomniac
Silver Member
Fast Lenny said:
So that is the official high run on a 9 footer?

I honestly don't know. I know it's his high run, and he lists it on his site as if it's a record of some sort, but I'm not sure what the official high run on a 9' table is.

526 will be very, very tough to beat. I'm not saying it can't happen, or it won't happen, but someone still has to step up and do it. It is definitely not a foregone conclusion that it will happen.
 

huckster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fast Lenny said:
I would suggest several tables as one wont be enough as those high runs take forever,so i would say atleast 5 tables.Then i would charge a $100 a head but at the end of the event i would give the person with the highest run a percentage of the entries so they still walk with something decent. ;)

I like the idea of a couple tables, but I do not want to overdue it. Maybe two or three. I do not want to interfere with the events. Logistics to transport and set-up tables that are exactley the same for each venue may limit the amount to teo or three. Also some sponserships at tournaments may clash with the Diamond product.
 

huckster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
av84fun said:
Sir...congratulations to you for conceiving of this novel and interesting challenge. I wish you well.

However, I don't think there is anyone alive today who could come close. None of the top pros of today have dedicated decades of their lives almost exclusively to 14.1.

And those who did back in the day, like Willie, ran 125-50 and out did so only 10% of the time or less.

In spite of straight pool's well deserved reputation for involving less luck than 9 Ball, it certainly is not devoid of luck as the above statistic shows.

Breaking into the rack and into secondary clusters involves a meaningful degree of luck that often conspires to end runs at the 25-50 ball mark.

In addition, leaving an ideal break shot, in itself, is no walk in the park.

All told, I would guess (because I don't have actual statistics) is that the average run of the top pros of the Mosconi era (and earlier) after the first open break shot would be between 35-50 balls suggesting that it would take 10 -15 attempts to get to 526.

That all goes to show what a spectacular feat it was...and Babe Cranfield's run of 768 in practice in the presence of credible witnesses.

But I doubt that many players would part with even $100.00 to even try.

But again, I applaud your creativity and generosity.

Regards,
Jim

Jim,
You may
be surprised the amount of legitimate 14.1 practioners (John Schmidt, Micheal Schmidt, Hohmann, Feijen, Souqet, Engert, many other Europeans)
Quite a few of the above have runs well above 300 and some John, Thorsten, Ralph?, Thomas, Earl, have runs exceededing 400 balls. Imagine the interest practicing would bring if I was able to secure a 2-3 million dollar award. The hundred dollar entry was just a idea to keep lower skilled level players from keep a legit threat from breaking the record maybe a qualification system is needed but at this time I am more concerned with securing additional sponsership or an insurance policy.
 

tonmo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In Souquet v. Reyes, Soquet looked like he could have gone on forever. This challenge would remove the "and out" aspect of it! I agree with the angel here, this can be done!
 

huckster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fast Lenny said:
I also believe the insurance company would want it all taped also. :cool:

Whatever my representation can work out with them then I will make sure that it happens. I need to talk to Pat Fleming, Greg Sullivan, about getting them onboard as far as using there products. I really am not looking at this as a buisness venture I have nothing to gain but hopefully we could see an intrest in pool occur, and the level of play would increase. Also a lot of players that do not come to the USA would take some shots at the prize. A million is just a number I tossed out there I want it to be a mill at least if not 2-3. If I can get this to happen for example I can get someone like Lloyd's involved, I will be more then happy to pay at least a few years premium's to make this happen. I have an idea what the premium may be (ballpark) and these speciality policies are quite costly but I don't care. I can't take my money with me when I die and after making so much the excess does not have a purpose for me I want to enjoy things in life, and this would be interesting, and good for the game.
 

Krisz

addicted to pool
What do You think?

Somehow I get the feeling, that this might make one of my dreams come true...
Earning a million with pool:cool: - just kidding, i won't get there this century.
But it could bring Efren to straight pool!
My favourite game and my favourite player, united at last:)

Just don't hesitate too long, cuz else he might get too old.
Best of luck!
Krisz
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would hope that the entry fee would allow the player to take as many stabs as needed within a certain time period. Once the time period ends he has no more chances to start over and must go all the way on his current run.

This would be very exciting to watch and would actually bring a straight-pooler like me out to 9-ball events. I would never go otherwise.

Maybe you can make it an even bigger thing at the annual 14.1 events.

I love the idea. Good luck!

Jeff
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like another poster said, I think there has to be at least some incentive for the high run of that particular tournament. And there should probably be at least one backup camera that shoots all the tables at once.
Don't forget that these videos can be sold if recorded properly. At least a clear overhead of each table.
Also, the pockets shouldn't be too tight.
Jeff
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
huckster said:
I want to set up a "loose" if possible Diamond at most major tournaments and charge a nominal ($100) entry to try and find a champion to run 527.


Good grief. For a million, you don't need to latch onto an event.

With that kind of money, this is the event.

Lou Figueroa
 

iba7467

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lfigueroa said:
Good grief. For a million, you don't need to latch onto an event.

With that kind of money, this is the event.

Lou Figueroa

I believe Lou may have a good point. You could easily find a poolroom to host this event. I in fact will offer ours. Announce a period of time that the challenge would be open... some time in the near future, but enough time that non-straight pool players could get some practice in. Then let them come to the pool room and have at it. For a cool million I believe almost every major pool player in the country might come to the room and set up shop for a week or two. Each player could pre-register, pay, and set a "tee time".

As was mentioned before. The top player each day could be paid a nominal amount and offer the top players for the day each one more opportunity at the end of the night.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
great idea, a catch though

This is a great idea but insurance would be an issue. Specialty insurance companies will gladly issue a bond or coverage for one event, even a year I suspect. However they are not in business to take a guaranteed loss and an open ended policy would be setting themselves up for just that unless it was cost prohibitive to the buyer.

I think you put a nice sum in a special interest bearing account as the prize, ask for donations to be added to that account, publicize the running total in that account and make this information available to anyone who asks, and solicit sponsorship from the various folks that might be interested after you have something real. You can approach people for tentative sponsorship now but don't expect commitments to something that is only an idea. It could happen but it is a long shot.

Being upfront and public with the purse all of the time is a must. Not because of your lack of credibility but because of the skepticism of most players when somebody mentions big money and pool in the same sentence right now.

Good luck with your project. I think that if you can raise an initial purse of a quarter million or more and it growing all the time you can generate all of the interest you want in the chase. 10 to 20K hasn't been enough to make anyone take a real run at the record.

I do like the idea of a $100 entry or possibly even less $50 or $75 buying a block of time on the table, maybe thirty or forty-five minutes guaranteed and then the next miss outside that time limit ends that player's time at the table or they put up more money if nobody else is waiting. I suggest a high run prize at each event too. Depending on the number of participants you can decide how to split the monies. Some to your prize account, some to the highest and maybe second highest runs, and if needed some to keep the competition running. Tables and space at major events are going to be a pretty substantial cost, plus cameras and you will need some staff. Of course the TAR guys and a cheap pay per view might work too.

Late breaking thought, maybe free attempts for the top four to six at each event on the last day. A free entry at your next event for the top shooters might be a thought too since your goal is to see the record broken.

Hu
 
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