Racking At The US BB Championship

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
WHF? Why are they letting Corey and others load and unload the MR two and three times to get the rack fixed? I mean they are fixing the rack right before everones eyes and the TD won't put a stop to it? The MR's are made different by deferent companies that make them. When they are made too thin/flimsy the racker can reshape the the rack by pulling it out a tiny bit to aim a ball at a pocket. This is just one of many ways the MR can be fixed...but it takes awhile to get it right (cheat). Load the balls in the MR one time quickly and stop this aiming the rack and the patern racking that is done by everyone. There are many things wrong with pool that would be hard to fix, but something like this can be fixed in a sentence at the players meeting. You fix the rack and your gone...no matter who you are. Johnnyt
 
K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey JT whats the deal?

I keep hearing that Dennis O is the best and he cant be beat because he is pattern racking..., well why aren the American players breaking and running out like he is?

Is it the rack or is he a better palyer who works harder and has more "WILL" to win? He cant break from the chair right?

So when its my turn at the table and I dont make a ball on the break or dont get out is that Dennis's fault or Corey's fault?
 
CJ Wiley

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Referees are needed in these tournaments for more than one reason. Get 'R' done.

billiardguy87 said:
Have neutral rackers and it will take care of all the pattern racking an manipulating the rack.
Click to expand...

You are exactly right....why on earth can't simple things like this get fixed. I'm from the restaurant/bar business and this is a relatively simple matter, it just needs to be managed. This industry needs to be solution oriented, instead of problem oriented.

Referees are needed in these tournaments for more than one reason. Get 'R' done. :wink:

4f5fc9004f73c.image++larry+cable+guy.jpg
 
CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Johnnyt said:
WHF? Why are they letting Corey and others load and unload the MR two and three times to get the rack fixed? I mean they are fixing the rack right before everones eyes and the TD won't put a stop to it? The MR's are made different by deferent companies that make them. When they are made too thin/flimsy the racker can reshape the the rack by pulling it out a tiny bit to aim a ball at a pocket.
Click to expand...

Johnny, you should really know what you're talking about before you publicly accuse champions of cheating.

1. You don't need to "manipulate" the magic rack to make balls go. They go easily with a perfectly tight rack.
They're 99% wired in 9b, they're 80% wired in 10b.

You can't just 'point balls at a pocket', the balls that drop are pointing 4-5 inches away from the hole.
They aren't like a wired 2 ball combo. They kiss off another moving ball.

2. One simple logical explanation besides assuming a world champion is cheating...
sometimes even with MBR the balls don't freeze right away, for example if one of them is a little smaller than the rest.
Corey is a perfectionist so he will start over until the rack is perfectly tight. That may mean moving the small ball to a different spot so it doesn't leave a gap.


3. One company makes the magic ball rack. They have changed it over the years but it's all the same product.
In fact I believe it's the work of one guy, and he's on AZbilliards:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2002896&postcount=1

If you think you see a magic rack knockoff used in a pro event, someone should mention it to him so he can sue their pants off.
 
B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I have no experience in tournament play, so I'm really approaching this from Mars.

I agree that the breaker should not be allowed to "wire" balls, but isn't his opponent allowed to inspect the rack and complain if something is amiss? If Cory's actions were so apparent to you, I assume his opponent noticed it too.
 
o.g. (old guy)

o.g. (old guy)

mark
Silver Member
I really don't think Corey was trying to cheat. He was complaining that the balls wouldn't
freeze. He tried a new MR in the 10 ball finals and still couldn't get them to freeze. He said said the balls weren't the same size. If he was manipulating the rack I think he would have made balls on the break consistently...he didn't!
 
MahnaMahna

MahnaMahna

Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!
Silver Member
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

So apparently all of these guys have the skill to run out. Now some of them have the knowledge that others don't on how to rack and break so they can run out after the break regularly.

So who's to blame, the smart people who practiced and learned the method or the idiots who just complain about it?
 
L

LHP5

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MahnaMahna said:
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

So apparently all of these guys have the skill to run out. Now some of them have the knowledge that others don't on how to rack and break so they can run out after the break regularly.

So who's to blame, the smart people who practiced and learned the method or the idiots who just complain about it?
Click to expand...

I agree. They all have the ability to run out from anywhere on the table. Only thing separating them is KNOWLEDGE of the break. People always argue about handicapped tournaments being bad for the game. Same concept can be applied here if you start punishing the players who know more about the game/rack. Racking is apart of the game isn't it?
 
BarneyCalip

BarneyCalip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pattern Racking (Toc) is the Nuts

Cheating only if it is against the rules in a tournament.

Look at Orcullo at the Swanne.
Can't wait for POV Pool to put it up on Youtube.

Orcullo meticulously placed the Magic Rack on the table.

I touch and move the balls in the Magic Rack to make sure they are touching........grin:grin:

Me cheat, I'm a honest Pool Player.
Never heard of Touch of cheating or Seen someone sharking.

Thanks Joe Tucker.
 
JesseBfan

JesseBfan

Motivation, where are u?
Silver Member
CJ Wiley said:
You are exactly right....why on earth can't simple things like this get fixed. I'm from the restaurant/bar business and this is a relatively simple matter, it just needs to be managed. This industry needs to be solution oriented, instead of problem oriented.

Referees are needed in these tournaments for more than one reason. Get 'R' done. :wink:

4f5fc9004f73c.image++larry+cable+guy.jpg
Click to expand...

Perfectly put, gentlemen.
 
2l82bgr8

2l82bgr8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If a player is cheating then the opponent could let the TD know. The TD at this event would definitely put a stop to it.
Don't think that's what was happening. Why cheat when you don't need to?
Assume and accuse, that will work
 
stuckart

stuckart

Paint Dry Watching Champ
Silver Member
I'm here at the USBTC. There has been zero talk about manipulation of the Magic Racks themselves to make balls more wired. The Problem is 9-ball itself and pattern racking.

9-ball is a broken game!

I watched Shane and Jayson Shaw teach a bunch of friends how to soft break and rack the balls to gain an advantage on the 2nd night of 10-ball. They were all laughing like crazy and each were taking turns doing it.

Griffin said that next year that the 9-ball event will be Rack for your Opponent, using the Magic Rack to prevent the pattern racking. This is a good first step! Although we all know that there are opposite pattern racking to effect your opponent, which might actually make everyone break the balls hard.
 
spanky79

spanky79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BarneyCalip said:
Cheating only if it is against the rules in a tournament.

Look at Orcullo at the Swanne.
Can't wait for POV Pool to put it up on Youtube.

Orcullo meticulously placed the Magic Rack on the table.

I touch and move the balls in the Magic Rack to make sure they are touching........grin:grin:

Me cheat, I'm a honest Pool Player.
Never heard of Touch of cheating or Seen someone sharking.

Thanks Joe Tucker.
Click to expand...

Shaw had every right to say something and didn't. In fact, if you wach the match Shaw started using the same pattern later in the match. If wouldn't of mattered where you put the balls Orcullo was winning that match.
 
DogsPlayingPool

DogsPlayingPool

"What's in your wallet?"
Silver Member
stuckart said:
...Griffin said that next year that the 9-ball event will be Rack for your Opponent, using the Magic Rack to prevent the pattern racking. This is a good first step! Although we all know that there are opposite pattern racking to effect your opponent, which might actually make everyone break the balls hard.
Click to expand...

Not sure how the MBR prevents pattern racking. It actually is much more conducive to pattern racking than a triangle.

Having said that, if they go to opponent rack the MBR should help keep up the pace of play and minimize slugs. And while certainly the opponent can pattern rack defensively, this is much less of a problem since the breaker always has the option of pushing out or running a few balls then playing safe just before the problems are encountered.

In other words the player who was the victim of pattern racking at least has control of the table with opponent rack whereas with rack your own pattern racking the victim is stuck in his chair and there is nothing he can do about it.

Opponent rack is at least a step in the right direction in this situation.
 
cardiac kid

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Guys,

To stop pattern racking in its place, why not force all players to use the ultimate pattern rack. One in the front. Two and three second row. Four, nine and five in the third row. Six and seven in the fourth row and eight ball behind. Use the Sardo. Use the Magic Rack. Use whatever you want but EVERY rack is the same ball structure. Players might not like it but hey, what are you going to do if it's the rule! As one poster put it, it might save an hour or two at every event! Might also end the endless arguments :rolleyes:.

Lyn
 
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