Is Johan Ruysink out as USA Mosconi Cup Coach after only one year?

Cardigan Kid said:

And in only 3 years time, he took a US program that hadn’t won in 10 years, to be back to back champions over an impressive European squad.

Just think about how much time he spent away from his family to scout and coach and play psychiatrist to US players in order to get them to believe in a winning mindset.

They never even used to win lags, and here they are 3 years later.

Wow.

I hope he writes a book about it all. I really do.

Click to expand...

Johan Ruijsink -- master pool-team reclamationist.

But don't forget that Team USA won in 2009 (the rookie Hatch MVP year). So Team USA lost only 8 years in a row (7 without Johan) before the recent 2 wins. Team Europe's longest losing streak was 6, a streak that was part of losing 10 of the first 12. And then Johan appeared.

Well, like I said, I'm on the outside looking in.

But when a coach does not have management backing and goes 0-11, and then management hires a new coach and they tell him: we'll back you financially so go do what you want and then that coach wins the Super Bowl...is that guy truly the better coach?

Basically it was Stu's post in another thread, and perhaps a couple of others, that got me thinking about this. Here's what Stu said:

sjm said:

Count me among those who wondered whether the Johan move was a good one in 2017.

My concern was that he wouldn't be hands on enough if he were living in Russia. He quickly proved me wrong, bringing Mosconi hopefuls and team members to his academy in Russia, attending some major events in the US to watch/scout his players, putting his players in some European and WPA events, providing actual individualized instruction to his players, and arranging team vs team prep matches to further acclimate his team to the Mosconi Cup format. He also did well to bring on Jeremy Jones, one of America's greatest ever tacticians, to help school his team in how to play the percentages, and the two of them have succeeded marvelously together.

Agreed, hats off to Johan … and JJ, too.

Click to expand...

So, did JR do all of that stuff on his own (because he has the means and does it out of his own pocket) or because MR provided him with the means to do all that -- and anywhichway does that make him the better coach than say, a MW?

Lou Figueroa

Jesus Christ.

Mark Wilson is a top notch instructor but Johan gives him the 7 in coaching.

Cardigan Kid said:

And in only 3 years time, he took a US program that hadn’t won in 10 years, to be back to back champions over an impressive European squad.

Just think about how much time he spent away from his family to scout and coach and play psychiatrist to US players in order to get them to believe in a winning mindset.

They never even used to win lags, and here they are 3 years later.

Wow.

I hope he writes a book about it all. I really do.

Click to expand...

He certainly deserves big credit, but it was Match Room who saw thier product going down hill it was quite obvious the lack of discipline and a culture change needed to happen, heck people were talking about ending it , adding Canada and so on

Insert Wilson who was met with the usual American player belief of what can he teach our players after all if your not a world class player yourself you have nothing to offer , always has been a rediculas notion to me and a few people here , but he laid down the groundwork of a team being a team , he was torched for bringing in young players Sky and Berg , How's that Sky thing worked out lol
Then Matchroom inserted the next level up of a dictatorship , Johan,, I'm not so convinced that wasn't by design all along
I highly doubt he would have enjoyed the same success if had he took over when Mark did ,
Mark softend the blow and laid the ground work for Johan to take over and be better received as it was by the players , not so much by the keyboard junkies but I'm pretty sure they are all on board now with that decision
It now remains to be seen who the next choice is and I'm sure it will be a American, probably JJ and if he can keep it rolling ,

1

Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.

watchez said:

Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.

Click to expand...

Comparison of Fargo Rates between the previous 2 years that USA won and the final 2 years that Mark Wilson was the coach.

2019 (Johan)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Bergman (794)
Thorpe (766)
Styer (751)

Avg (786)


2018 (Johan)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Thorpe (766)
Corey (782)
Styer (751)

Avg (783)


2016 (Mark)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Bergman (794)
Morris (777)
Dechaine (801)

Avg (798)


2015 (Mark)

Shane (824)
Corey (782)
Dechaine (801)
Bergman (794)
Sky (794)


Avg (799)

BeiberLvr said:

Comparison of Fargo Rates between the previous 2 years that USA won and the final 2 years that Mark Wilson was the coach.

2019 (Johan)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Bergman (794)
Thorpe (766)
Styer (751)

Avg (786)


2018 (Johan)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Thorpe (766)
Corey (782)
Styer (751)

Avg (783)


2016 (Mark)

Shane (824)
Sky (794)
Bergman (794)
Morris (777)
Dechaine (801)

Avg (798)


2015 (Mark)

Shane (824)
Corey (782)
Dechaine (801)
Bergman (794)
Sky (794)


Avg (799)

Click to expand...

That was their Fargo Rate back in those years?

watchez said:

That was their Fargo Rate back in those years?

Click to expand...

No


1

one stroke said:

No


1

Click to expand...

I knew the answer .

watchez said:

I knew the answer .

Click to expand...

We all know how much it takes for someone's ratings to change. I would be surprised if there was more than a 30 point difference in any of their ratings from then to today.

Johan won it twice with lesser teams.

JR also got tens of thousands of dollars to enable boot camps, travel etc. Mark never got a dime, compared to Johan, and in fact had to fight to get any funding at all. That also made a huge difference, imo.

Scott Lee
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour

watchez said:

Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.

Click to expand...

BeiberLvr said:

We all know how much it takes for someone's ratings to change. I would be surprised if there was more than a 30 point difference in any of their ratings from then to today.

Johan won it twice with lesser teams.

Click to expand...

First you act like a 30 point difference is no big deal.

Second Johan won with one less player. Surely if you are as smart as you think you are, you can figure it out.

watchez said:

First you act like a 30 point difference is no big deal.

Second Johan won with one less player. Surely if you are as smart as you think you are, you can figure it out.

Click to expand...

If the ratings have changed, then I would think that guys like Dechaine, Morris and Hatch all had higher ratings since they were all playing a lot more back then.


I get it though. Mark Wilson is the best.

At the end of the day, even if its true that its only the money that made the difference and its merely JR's presence that made the money come in, i'd say hell yeah why not.

Maybe MW could have done the same. Maybe he couldnt. who cares in this moment? Team USA looks like a proper team with plenty of fire. The momentum is picking up and the belief is there right now; if this was something i could guarantee by paying xx grand upfront i'd pony up without hesitation. just enjoy the moment please

USA won this year because of better team chemistry and racking format

Sent from my Mi A2 Lite using Tapatalk

watchez said:

Johan got to pick his entire team — MW was nerve afforded that luxury. Not to take anything away from Johan as on paper the Americans were underdogs each year and played exceptionally well to win.

Click to expand...

I agree. And MW picked Sky. Sky got 2 years under his belt. He was a rookie to the big stage. Without that seasoning would he played as well under Johann? Probably not, possibly could have, we'll never really know. But there were a lot of hands in this.

pinkspider said:

At the end of the day, even if its true that its only the money that made the difference and its merely JR's presence that made the money come in, i'd say hell yeah why not.

Maybe MW could have done the same. Maybe he couldnt. who cares in this moment? Team USA looks like a proper team with plenty of fire. The momentum is picking up and the belief is there right now; if this was something i could guarantee by paying xx grand upfront i'd pony up without hesitation. just enjoy the moment please

Click to expand...

Well ya, whatever.

But the point I and a couple of other observers were making is that before we all crown JR as the greatest coach since Belichick or Lombardi, it is useful to note what appears to be substantially greater financial and planning support from MR for JR.

I personally recall MW, and his wife Cathy, doing everything but selling cupcakes in front of supermarkets to collect monies for their MC teams. They held multiple fund raising events and sold raffle tickets to support their teams...

I don't see JR selling raffle tickets.

Lou Figueroa
or cupcakes
if that's what it takes

lfigueroa said:

Well ya, whatever.

But the point I and a couple of other observers were making is that before we all crown JR as the greatest coach since Belichick or Lombardi, it is useful to note what appears to be substantially greater financial and planning support from MR for JR.

I personally recall MW, and his wife Cathy, doing everything but selling cupcakes in front of supermarkets to collect monies for their MC teams. They held multiple fund raising events and sold raffle tickets to support their teams...

I don't see JR selling raffle tickets.

Lou Figueroa
or cupcakes
if that's what it takes

Click to expand...

It would be more productive to start a thread that celebrates/remind people of Mark's efforts before Johan, and since you guys are privy to all the things he has done, detail them so the wider world know he did to help lay the foundation for what the team is like today – that his efforts should not go unnoticed; otherwise it just looks like ppl tryin to pour cold water on JR, and at the same time people dont know about the good stuff that MW did.