Another Difficult Spread/Shot

DrCue'sProtege · Jul 3, 2006

i had this layout yesterday following the break. i managed to get a ball down, and had an excellent shot on the '1' Ball to start with. however, the '2' Ball was laying kinda funny.

i elected to go two rails up table, and try and squeeze into position for the '2' Ball at Point A. instead i guess i had a little too much right english, and i ended up snookered at Point B.

would you posters have tried this? i thought about the '2-5' combination, but i avoid them at all costs.

DCP

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Double-Dave · Jul 3, 2006

I´d draw the cueball with maybe a touch of left and play safe on the two probably. If I were to land perfect on the combo I might go for it, but a lot can go wrong with the 7 and 8 where they are.

Hal · Jul 3, 2006

DrCue'sProtege said:
Would you posters have tried this?
DCP

No........

seiyaryu55 · Jul 3, 2006

Did you use just right english? Top right would have cut down the angle that the cue ball comes off the rail. (EDIT: nevermind i see the cue ball on the table. I tried it out and i managed to get down to the 2 cept i hit it a little too hard)

I agree with double dave on this one though. With the balls near each other like that i would have gone for a safe. I woudlnt be able to control the speed of the cue ball that well and if you landed on the wrong side of the 2 it would have been hard to get to the 4

Williebetmore · Jul 3, 2006

DrCue'sProtege said:
would you posters have tried this?

DCP,
I definitely would have tried it. You have a fairly decent sized window to get on the 2. It looks like "Runout City" if you get on the 2.

Once again I'll mention that Joe Tuckers "Guaranteed Improvement Drills" will have you getting shape on the 2 a high percentage of the time (if your mechanics are sound).

Black-Balled · Jul 3, 2006

For sure~!

StevenPWaldon · Jul 3, 2006

Glad to see I'm not the only one who would have attempted it.

DCP for once I agree with you.

Williebetmore said:
DCP,
I definitely would have tried it. You have a fairly decent sized window to get on the 2. It looks like "Runout City" if you get on the 2.

Once again I'll mention that Joe Tuckers "Guaranteed Improvement Drills" will have you getting shape on the 2 a high percentage of the time (if your mechanics are sound).

DrCue'sProtege · Jul 3, 2006

my thought process told me that usually in every rack there is one pretty difficult shot that is the key to running out - and often times its early in the sequence. as williebetmore said, if position on the '2' is gained then the rest should be alot easier.

so i went for it, put just a little too much english on it, and snookered myself. lesson learned.

DCP

Williebetmore · Jul 3, 2006

DrCue'sProtege said:
as williebetmore said, if position on the '2' is gained then the rest should be alot easier.

so i went for it, put just a little too much english on it, and snookered myself. lesson learned.

DCP

DCP,
Well, not to sour things, but I wouldn't consider this a particularly difficult shot or runout. Position on the 2 should only be slightly to mildly challenging. I would expect a good player to make this position well above 80% of the time. Good luck.

Andrew Manning · Jul 3, 2006

Williebetmore said:
DCP,
Well, not to sour things, but I wouldn't consider this a particularly difficult shot or runout. Position on the 2 should only be slightly to mildly challenging. I would expect a good player to make this position well above 80% of the time. Good luck.

This is where I think for those of us who are not as good as we'd hope to be, effective 9-ball is about knowing your game, and knowing when to play safe. At my skill level, I'd draw the CB out to center-table, and bank the 2 two rails to the other end of the table, following the CB behind the 5 and 7 (CB at position A, 2 at position B):

CueTable Help

Both shots are exceedingly high-percentage for me, as opposed to position on the two, which would be an iffy proposition.

But if you know your game, and know you can get position on the 2, running out is always better than playing safe, if you're going to make it.

-Andrew

GADawg · Jul 3, 2006

Andrew Manning said:
This is where I think for those of us who are not as good as we'd hope to be, effective 9-ball is about knowing your game, and knowing when to play safe. At my skill level, I'd draw the CB out to center-table, and bank the 2 two rails to the other end of the table, following the CB behind the 5 and 7 (CB at position A, 2 at position B):

CueTable Help

Both shots are exceedingly high-percentage for me, as opposed to position on the two, which would be an iffy proposition.

But if you know your game, and know you can get position on the 2, running out is always better than playing safe, if you're going to make it.

-Andrew

Me too!! i'd make the one a play safe. To be past the seven and on th "right" side of the 2 without behind the 5 doesn't leave a lot of room for error.

GADawg · Jul 3, 2006

Andrew Manning said:
This is where I think for those of us who are not as good as we'd hope to be, effective 9-ball is about knowing your game, and knowing when to play safe. At my skill level, I'd draw the CB out to center-table, and bank the 2 two rails to the other end of the table, following the CB behind the 5 and 7 (CB at position A, 2 at position B):

CueTable Help

Both shots are exceedingly high-percentage for me, as opposed to position on the two, which would be an iffy proposition.

But if you know your game, and know you can get position on the 2, running out is always better than playing safe, if you're going to make it.

-Andrew

Me too!! i'd make the one a play safe. To be past the seven and be on the "right" side of the 2 to get easy position on the 4,without behind the 5 doesn't leave a lot of room for error.

Black-Balled · Jul 3, 2006

GADawg said:
Me too!! i'd make the one a play safe. To be past the seven and on th "right" side of the 2 without behind the 5 doesn't leave a lot of room for error.

As far as the "right" side of the 2, there doesn't need to be one. even straight in is OK. Looks to me like about a 24" window to land in. That is pretty good, almost 25% of total table length...
START(
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%RK3Z2%UX5[1%VL9[1%WM6Z9%XY2Z5
)END

Williebetmore · Jul 3, 2006

Andrew Manning said:
....effective 9-ball is about knowing your game, and knowing when to play safe. .

-Andrew

Tap, tap, tap.

You are sooo right. It's all about realistic assessment of your own game, and realistic estimations of your success rate on any given shot or sequence.

Just to clarify, I was NOT recommending the "short zone" position on the 2-ball for everyone - just responding to DCP's question about what "I" would do. As BB points out, if you keep whitey near the rail, you have an almost 2 foot wide position zone, we should all strive to be able to hit a target of that size.

These short-side positions, however, do come up extremely often in straight pool. The serious student of the game would do well to develop proficiency in direction and speed control with these shots.

DrCue'sProtege · Jul 3, 2006

just to clarify - the position zone was actually probably around 12" or so. sorry if my ball placement on the WEI table is misleading. perhaps that might make some change their minds if they feel it was a fairly easy shot. it didnt require pinpoint accuracy on the dime, but it still required some pretty good cue ball control.

and i failed to display good cue ball control on that shot.

DCP

Williebetmore · Jul 3, 2006

DrCue'sProtege said:
just to clarify - the position zone was actually probably around 12" or so.
DCP

DCP,
Definitely tougher, still very possible. You'll see that Joe T.'s drills use and 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper for a target. If there was that much target area, then a pro will hit it at least 70% of the time.

With a 1 foot position zone, in an "ahead" set money match I would go for it. In a "race" money match I might think about staying in view of the 2-ball for a safety attempt. In my basement for fun I'M GOING FOR IT even if the position zone is 6 inches.

NotYou · Jul 3, 2006

START(
%Ar8W6%BL9S5%DM3H7%EJ5V5%F^1F1%GR1U1%Hm1V2%P^3M3%UN3W0%Vf5[0
%Wf9[1%Xr7X4%[q5V9%\^8M8%eC1b0
)END

Play safe on the one first instead of making it. If you don't have the runout, it's not necessary to shoot at every makeable shot. By doing this, you open up the potential for breaking out the 2-5 mess or setting up for a three foul win. That's probably what I would do.

longhair · Jul 3, 2006

I'd try to get short side position on the 2 every time, but not quite the way DCP tried it. If you imagine hitting the second rail AFTER the side pocket you are crossing the position wedge as far as possible from the 2. It might put you on the rail, but you won't get hooked on the seven ball, for sure.

If you really don't like that for some reason, you could play with more speed and try to hit the five. If you hit it, you're strait into the side, and if you pass it you will be under the two and shooting uptable. Of course, we all know that when the cueball hits other balls it can end up funny; in the corner pocket, for example.

sixpack · Jul 3, 2006

Williebetmore said:
DCP,
Definitely tougher, still very possible. You'll see that Joe T.'s drills use and 8 1/2" x 11" piece of paper for a target. If there was that much target area, then a pro will hit it at least 70% of the time.

With a 1 foot position zone, in an "ahead" set money match I would go for it. In a "race" money match I might think about staying in view of the 2-ball for a safety attempt. In my basement for fun I'M GOING FOR IT even if the position zone is 6 inches.

What's key to remember, is that if A pro will hit it 70% of the time, then if they tried to get that position more than once a game, the odds are that they would lose the game. (.70 *.70 = .49 = 49%) If they had to do it more than that, then they are a serious underdog. That's why even the pros play as conservative as they can for position.

Cheers,
RC

Williebetmore · Jul 3, 2006

sixpack said:
What's key to remember, is that if A pro will hit it 70% of the time, then if they tried to get that position more than once a game, the odds are that they would lose the game. (.70 *.70 = .49 = 49%) If they had to do it more than that, then they are a serious underdog. That's why even the pros play as conservative as they can for position.

Cheers,
RC

RC,
Tap, tap, tap.

Several top straight pool players have expressed this sentiment to me; and certainly this is one of the reasons why the great old-school pool players seek to minimize risk whenever possible.

In this particular rack, however, there is just the one nut to crack (= 70% chance to win the game). This is a common scenario where, as my teacher always says, "if you can't make the shot, you don't deserve to win the game anyway." Meaning, if you've got one tough shot to make, then bear down and shoot your best; no fear.

Another Difficult Spread/Shot

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