Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

wrldpro said:

Marc lots of differences. Yes the players of today are great for sure. If the guys of today played on the equipment from 80 years ago especially the clay mud balls and cloth that didn't move the cue ball around very easily Mosconi would heist most of todays players at 14.1 any other games the players of today would have a decent change of beating the shit out of Willie at other games but Willie would never give up ever for sure. A great comment recently said by Sigel was after hearing Schmidt ran over 600 he said wow that's a lot of balls. After hearing only that John was playing on 760 Simonis he said well that makes a big difference and if Mosconi was in his prime and had 760 simonis he might have ran 2000. That goes to say also not counting all the other non standard advantages John made possibly in his so called run. Also to note it has been said John didn't have the first 200 balls of his run on video. Any people that see the video have to sign a (NDA) non disclosure agreement and if they talk about the video John can sue them for a million dollars. WOWZERS>>>>>

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Marc said:

If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good

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wrldpro said:

Marc lots of differences. Yes the players of today are great for sure. If the guys of today played on the equipment from 80 years ago especially the clay mud balls and cloth that didn't move the cue ball around very easily Mosconi would heist most of todays players at 14.1 any other games the players of today would have a decent change of beating the shit out of Willie at other games but Willie would never give up ever for sure. A great comment recently said by Sigel was after hearing Schmidt ran over 600 he said wow that's a lot of balls. After hearing only that John was playing on 760 Simonis he said well that makes a big difference and if Mosconi was in his prime and had 760 simonis he might have ran 2000. That goes to say also not counting all the other non standard advantages John made possibly in his so called run. Also to note it has been said John didn't have the first 200 balls of his run on video. Any people that see the video have to sign a (NDA) non disclosure agreement and if they talk about the video John can sue them for a million dollars. WOWZERS>>>>>

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DTL said:

IMO his (and Mosconi's) fast'nloose, free-wheeling style is why he can run 400+ balls, what, 7 times? And why your slowish, methodical style will only occasionally render a 300+ run (once or twice?).....despite you being one of the best, most knowledgable 14.1 players on the planet .

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Marc said:

If we are going to compare here are my thoughts :

Mosconi may have been a better 14.1 player than Sdmidt, Yes. Going by many who have seen Mosconi play the 14.1 game it is likely he was.

But I think Sdmidt probably the better all around player.

And if Schdmith doesnt play any games better than Mosconi did (I think Schdidt is at least better at One Pocket), there are plenty of guys in todays game that are definitely better than Mosconi. When it comes to 9-Ball and 10-Ball there are many, no question, but also talking 14.1 I think there are at least 10-12 superstars of today and even some from the 90's that could definitely play the game at a higher level than Mosconi.

Shaw, Filler, Pagulayan, Orcullo, SVB are 5 of the very best today who I have no doubt would beat Mosconi playing any game. (Specially the last 3 I mentioned who are some of the best all around champions that have ever lived.)

Let's not forget Mosconi won the majority of his "World" titles playing mostly against american players and most the times a challenge match against 1 player was all it would take to claim the "World title".

I understand regardless of this, Mosconi could really play exceptionally well and super consistent with high runs, and no one could really beat him in tournament nor long exhibition matches (in the long run), but Ive seen him lose his mind too. Ive seen his attitude when things dont go his way. And how easily it seemed to be at times to throw him off his game.

I never see this from Bustamante or Reyes in their prime, nor the top taiwanese players
Top europeans could rattle a little, but the very best at 14.1, who all happen to come from Germany are in my opinion at Mosconi's level in 14.1. Specifically Engert who's had runs that pass 99% of all others (or so I've heard) and that for the longest time held the official 491 run on a 9-foot table (the highest official record on a 9-foot table, yet because he was not lucky to be born in the land where 14.1 was created, it has been overlooked for I dont know how long.

I wonder who would be holding world championships if all those had a 50% american pro 14.1 players and 50% german players in the field and they were played equally split in between the USA and Germany

It puzzles me when someone says "you can't compare different times" I think you can.
However, what is hard to figure out is how well Mosconi woulda gotten if he woulda faced today's competition. I'm sure it woulda made him even better than he was

But let's be real: Mosconi's shot making could not compare with the biggest names in the game shot making of today. Not close!
I bet on that.

Cue ball control this Yes, I understand Mosconi's biggest weapon was a great cue ball, hence why he was so strong.

But let's keep going down the list: speed, mental toughness, and I'm sure there are other factors,what else there is?

How many out of all the package that makes a champion was Mosconi better at than the top players of today?
Not too many.. Mental toughness for instance: not close.
Guys like Shane, Bustamante, Orcullo, Filler are super strong mentally!

I think all of these could play the 14.1 game better than anyone in history and I think it would come easy for them. Easier than Mosconi (who dedicated his whole life to the 14.1 game)

Reyes himself, would absolutely break records and beat just about anyone of any time in history playing pretty much any game.

Just his safety play, kicking, shotmaking (something that is not his fortee now but how quick we forgotten he was a hell of a shot maker, yet the big guns today are BETTER SHOT MAKERS THAN HE EVER WAS), speed control, MENTAL TOUGHNESS (a huge quality), desire to win, knowing how to win

Reyes would have driven Mosconi cuckoo in my opinion.

I played Orcollo 14.1 in a tournament in Jacksonville, FL many years ago
it was the first time he had ever played
he did not know the rules or anything
he didn't know how to setup a break shot

I mean clueless!

Ran 90-out on me dissecting the rack every rack never blasting the rack only chirping a few balls and then kept on re-breaking

That night Immonen taught him just the basics on what the best break shots are

I re-drew Orcollo next day in the last16 Single elimination 150-point games
He ran 147-out like water and 1-stroking every shot.

Lee Van Corteza truly never played the game before until he gave it a go one year at DCC ends up with that year's highest ran 226 I think it was

Please someone tell me what Mosconi did better than the champions of today?

Ortmann was really young player when he came to the US and won the the World 14.1 beating Mizerak in the finals, I think Ortmann was 22
It didnt look like the US players were that great to begin playing the 14.1 when such an inexperienced young german can come to the US and win it all at such a young age.
Similar level players that Mosconi beat for 2 decades
But hey that is not exactly beating the world

Not to take anything away from Mosconi's wins ..
I mean this applies to 9-ball too.

Many of the 80's and 90's world 9-ball champions were great players, they had to be, but often times they didnt really beat the world (meaning every champion of every nation) to be crowned world champions

Many champions of those times will tell you that winning the world titles or the US Opens today are much tougher than it was a few decades ago.

This is why I think SVB is one of the greatest and he is one of the greatest all around players including 14.1 as little as he knows and as little experience he has playing the game.

Does anyone realize how good the guys of today are?

I havent even mentioned the taiwanese here.
I know they dont play 14.1
but what if they did?

What does Mosconi could possibly have over these machines that out shoot him CLEARLY 2-1, to start?

What did Mosconi do better than the taiwanese champs of today? on a pool table I mean! Think all aspects of the game!

Now: true: bring Mosconi back today and make him play Ko Pin Yi 14.1 a long enough game and Mosconi would win.

But would happened if Ko Pin Yi played, practiced and competed only 14.1 for a year or two? Who would be favorite?

Not only do I think the big stars of today would become better players than the old 14.1 champs, but the few known official records would get beaten FOR SURE!

Why? Simple: there is nothing on a pool table that neither John Schdmit nor Willie Mosconi could do better than the asian, european champions nor SVB

I even think, as crazy as this may sound to some, that american top players in the 90's like Rempe, Varner, Strickland and also the super mentally strong Archer could play the game every bit as good as Willie Mosconi did.
Just the mental part alone, some champions who came after Mosconi, were much stronger mentally in my opinion

Joshua Filler may just be one of the very best in history. Playing all games! And he is not even 23 yet I don't think

Let this man play 14.1 exclusively, and make the tournaments what they were sometimes in Willie's time, including some big blocks of 1000-point games and such.
Filler may dominate the players of today, who in comparison I think they are better than all the champions from Willie's time and beyond

Please, I know I have little to compare.. there is very little footage of prime Mosconi, but there is enough for me to see just watching 10 minutes of the man playing, that there are more than a few guys today that can play the 14.1 game equally good






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4pointer said:

i am from germany and 30 years ago ive played in the same division with engert and some other good straight pool players .
i would say i know something about the history of straight pool .
ive seen some of schmidts 400s , everything fine with it
big pockets like in the ol days .
fast cloth , not my preference , but ok .
comparing 860 to 760 , to me 860 is easier to play .
heated/sanded slate i dont know .
i would choose mosconis table for a record attempt .
and i dont believe that sigel made a statement like on 760 mosconi 2000 balls .

by the way ....who is danny harriman ???

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lfigueroa said:

DH is a top US 14.1 player.

There's a video out there of him running over 300 balls on a 4 1/2" x 9" GC in which he is basically shooting at five v six pockets because one of the up table corner pockets isn't set up right, so he shoots around it as much as he can.

Lou Figueroa

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jrctherake said:

Fight there and back

Jeff

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lfigueroa said:

DH is a top US 14.1 player.



There's a video out there of him running over 300 balls on a 4 1/2" x 9" GC in which he is basically shooting at five v six pockets because one of the up table corner pockets isn't set up right, so he shoots around it as much as he can.



Lou Figueroa

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Bob Jewett said:

Here's a brief review of the video from the Santa Barbara showing last night. Stolen from FleeceBook:

View attachment 541246

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Black-Balled said:

Obviously, on the take.

All of you.

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alphadog said:

Marc.

You should have spent more time thinking about your post. You wouldnt have typed most of it.



Mosconi did play against the greatest players of his time. They were Americans.



Mosconi could play all games.



Mosconi is said to have had the fierce drive to be the best that he would have conquered new challenges.



Todays champions are true champions who posses great skill and knowledge,which allow many to excel at all games. Willie would be up to the task.

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nine_ball6970 said:

Does Danny even play pool anymore? The last cash he had recorded on this site was 9th in world 14.1 2015.

Even though he blocked me, Danny has a beautiful stroke. I could watch him play all day long.

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