playing with inside

I used inside for a better part of a month. It was awesome. I learned. I shoot. I practiced.

Now I use center. But if needed, I can and will with no hesitation throw two tips of english

on the cue ball to make it move where it needs to go. As for outside and inside being easier/ harder...

It is all in your head, or more specifically, your eyes. Train those to see correctly, and

learn to trust them, and you too can shoot all the inside you can muster...I have had a

mentor ask me once, which I preferred, draw or follow? To which I answered, what ever

leads me to the next shot. And that is my truth about how comfortable I am using english.

I will do whatever I need to, to make sure I have a shot next.

True statements worded slightly differently confuse some people

Sometimes true statements worded slightly differently confuse some people. I say that without trying to cause offense. If someone said some shafts make inside easier to play most would agree especially since low deflection and carbon fiber have gotten popular. If someone says the cue stick makes inside easier to play then the scoffers and jokers come out when the exact same thing is being said.

Suppose we take two house cues. One is twenty-one ounces with a 14mm tip. The other is sixteen ounces with a 10mm tip. Once they master shooting with the smaller tip I would bet the farm that most beginning to intermediate players would find the lighter stick easier to play inside with. Now that we can't change just the shaft it should be easy to understand that one cue makes it easier to play inside than the other. Outside too, but that is beyond the scope of this thread! We are talking inside and monkeys here!

Incidentally, the monkey article for those interested:

https://news.gsu.edu/2019/10/14/monkeys-outsmart-humans/

It is depressing to read how thoroughly impossible some humans find it to think outside a box they have put themselves in!

Hu

ShootingArts said:

Sometimes true statements worded slightly differently confuse some people. I say that without trying to cause offense. If someone said some shafts make inside easier to play most would agree especially since low deflection and carbon fiber have gotten popular. If someone says the cue stick makes inside easier to play then the scoffers and jokers come out when the exact same thing is being said.

Suppose we take two house cues. One is twenty-one ounces with a 14mm tip. The other is sixteen ounces with a 10mm tip. Once they master shooting with the smaller tip I would bet the farm that most beginning to intermediate players would find the lighter stick easier to play inside with. Now that we can't change just the shaft it should be easy to understand that one cue makes it easier to play inside than the other. Outside too, but that is beyond the scope of this thread! We are talking inside and monkeys here!

Incidentally, the monkey article for those interested:

https://news.gsu.edu/2019/10/14/monkeys-outsmart-humans/

It is depressing to read how thoroughly impossible some humans find it to think outside a box they have put themselves in!

Hu

Click to expand...

Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4

Hoser said:

Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4

Click to expand...

So if we live in trees, eat bananas, forgo speech and wipe our ass with our hands we could use inside english better?

Overcutting a shot with inside, as implied above, has to do with not adjusting for deflection.

On shots below a 30-degree cut, inside does little for the cue ball, but can make a handy aiming aid for the player.

evergruven said:

lately I've had a few steep cuts with inside miss
realized I'm not very well-versed hitting with inside in general
except on a few shots (ironically, steep cuts is one)
so I decided to play a few racks using inside, exclusively
to my surprise, I shot pretty ok
even on shots where using inside seemed counter-intuitive
I potted well, and found a way to get position most of time anyway
thinking about contact points, angles and speed differently was fun
let the games continue

Click to expand...

If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave said:

If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave

Click to expand...

That may be technically correct but perception is everything when using spin. I've known players who'd rather walk on broken glass than use inside.

dr_dave said:

If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Regards,
Dave

Click to expand...

garczar said:

That may be technically correct but perception is everything when using spin. I've known players who'd rather walk on broken glass than use inside.

Click to expand...

Knowing the facts about it (especially the fact that it's just a difference in the amount of experience with the shot) may make it easier for those players to learn it.

pj
chgo

was a chuckle!

Hoser said:

Thanks for that article Hu, here is a short video you may enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj-s4v4Nwd4

Click to expand...

That was a chuckle and proves the point nicely!

I was watching a match a couple months ago and saw one of our best players ignore a simple shot to run three rails around the table in traffic to get shape. He hit a ball in traffic, was thoroughly hung, and gave ball in hand. He did the same thing twice more in that same match, selected a shot he played a lot more often rather than an easier shot that he didn't play as often.

We get in a certain way of doing something and it is hard to do it differently. I was going to post the monkey article by itself to use as a thread starter and talk about considering options on the pool table but I was pretty sure we would just get tangled up in monkey business like here.

The person playing is under a lot more pressure than the person watching but I do think anyone could practice better shot selection if they saw all of the options. People check to see if their accustomed way is playable and it is often a yes/no answer, looking for a better option doesn't even enter into the picture as a consideration.

I am feeling my age a bit, my primary consideration is starting to be what pattern can I play with the least walking around the table!

Hu


PS: Chimps and higher primates beat us in adaptivity also. They also proved to be better shoppers, choosing quality over fancy merchandizing as you would expect. They know their food!

Patrick Johnson said:

Knowing the facts about it (especially the fact that it's just a difference in the amount of experience with the shot) may make it easier for those players to learn it.

pj
chgo

Click to expand...

Could very well be the case but i still don't love it after about 40yrs of playing. I've never liked the visuals that inside gives me. I can use it but if there's any other alternative i use that.

I recommend not putting yourself in a box- learn to use inside-outside-center as the the shot requires.

I see many beginming players who cant draw their rock,learn how to draw,and then thats all they play.

I see many good players who avoid using top at all costs. I had to spend considerable time learning to use outside as I had fallen into the trap of throwing balls in with inside.

But then again most players never really practice anything.

kinda the same way

garczar said:

Could very well be the case but i still don't love it after about 40yrs of playing. I've never liked the visuals that inside gives me. I can use it but if there's any other alternative i use that.

Click to expand...

I am right eye dominant, weakly to strongly dominant depending a lot on how I am training it at the moment. As a youngster I found it easiest to cut to the left. I largely stayed away from pool for a few decades. When I came back it now seems as if it is easier to cut balls to the right.

No clue why I changed, just a seeming oddity!

Hu

garczar said:

dr_dave said:

If you have a logical system for compensating your aim when using sidespin, there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Click to expand...

That may be technically correct but perception is everything when using spin. I've known players who'd rather walk on broken glass than use inside.

Click to expand...

That is because they don't have a logical system for compensating their aim when using sidespin. They are just attempting to use their intuition. And if they don't already have enough past successful experience with a certain type of shot, their intuition won't be good enough.

Regards,
Dave

Yes, I used to pride myself on doing it by feel. Then I got a new cue.

Aarrrggg.

Thank you, Dr. Dave! Aim and pivot is a thing of beauty, once you find the correct bridge length for whichever cue you are using.

garczar said:

Could very well be the case but i still don't love it after about 40yrs of playing. I've never liked the visuals that inside gives me. I can use it but if there's any other alternative i use that.

Click to expand...

And you would be right. It is the visual that gives "inside" a bad rap. And it's very difficult to have folks feel comfortable at shooting a shot that looks visually incorrect. So, makes sense that some folks do not like using inside.

If I had to shoot a long shot with inside or outside and had to sink the ball and get my position and there was a $1000 on the line, I'm using outside for the money I think I'm the percentages are the same with either shot, but I'm more confident with the shot that looks right in my little brain

JohnnyP said:

Yes, I used to pride myself on doing it by feel. Then I got a new cue.

Aarrrggg.

Thank you, Dr. Dave! Aim and pivot is a thing of beauty, once you find the correct bridge length for whichever cue you are using.

Click to expand...

With the System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS) BHE-FHE-combo approach, you can use any cue and any bridge length you want! You just need to re-calibrate when you change either.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave said:

...there is no difference between aiming with inside vs. aiming with outside. All sidespin shots are equally easy (or equally difficult).

Click to expand...

Correct me if I am wrong or if I might have misunderstood something you've mentioned before Dave.

I thought one of your videos on BH/FH English you say that they are 2 different things, in that you can do certain things with BHE that you can't with FHE (or at least how I thought it was showed in the video).

My view was as stated in a previous post "the cue ball doesn't care or know what English you use"...with this in mind, I just don't understand how there can be a difference in BHE vs FHE if the exact angle/amount/ratio was the exact same/symmetrical for each way?

Cadillac J said:

Correct me if I am wrong or if I might have misunderstood something you've mentioned before Dave.

I thought one of your videos on BH/FH English you say that they are 2 different things, in that you can do certain things with BHE that you can't with FHE (or at least how I thought it was showed in the video).

My view was as stated in a previous post "the cue ball doesn't care or know what English you use"...with this in mind, I just don't understand how there can be a difference in BHE vs FHE if the exact angle/amount/ratio was the exact same/symmetrical for each way?

Click to expand...

You might be referring to an older video where I may have showed simplified methods to use BHE vs. FHE for short/fast shots vs. long/slow shots. Pure BHE and pure FHE give totally different aiming results. You also need to adjust your aim for cut- or spin-induced throw if it is a concern for the shot at hand. The new System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS) approach accounts for everything (squirt, swerve, and throw) and results in the correct line of aim for both outside and inside english shots of all distances and speed.

Regards,
Dave

ChicagoRJ said:

And you would be right. It is the visual that gives "inside" a bad rap. And it's very difficult to have folks feel comfortable at shooting a shot that looks visually incorrect. So, makes sense that some folks do not like using inside.

If I had to shoot a long shot with inside or outside and had to sink the ball and get my position and there was a $1000 on the line, I'm using outside for the money I think I'm the percentages are the same with either shot, but I'm more confident with the shot that looks right in my little brain

Click to expand...

I was watching a video where Buddy was commentating on a match. He said if you asked a bunch of players what their favorite shot was he said(for right hand players) it would be low-right. For whatever reason outside of some kind just looks better to a lot of players.

garczar said:

I was watching a video where Buddy was commentating on a match. He said if you asked a bunch of players what their favorite shot was he said(for right hand players) it would be low-right. For whatever reason outside of some kind just looks better to a lot of players.

Click to expand...

If they're like me it's because outside is more familiar and generally takes less force.

And I agree with Buddy - we like what we're familiar with. OB in corner pocket with low outside, CB one or two rails toward center table is the most common shot I see.

pj
chgo