Fargorate and "Bar Bangers"

JC

Coos Cues
My Fargo rate...apa and bcapl handicaps all fall in line with what dd Dave has listed

My fargorate is considerably higher than my Billiard University results. I guess I find ways to win that BU doesn't test.

JC
 
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Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
My fargorate is considerably higher than my Billiard University results. I guess I find ways to win that BU doesn't test.

JC
This is completely understandable to me. The BU test picked a wide range of various ball setups and leave scenarios to test, but in a real match, not all of those scenarios would even come up in some matches. You excel more at the scenarios that actually come up in your games for your style of play. You may dislike certain positional shots, so you will simply rarely leave yourself in those situations in a real game. Rather, you will get position on your next shots with scenarios that you feel you will be able to get on the next ball with a much higher success rate.

While the BU test likely does test all of the important skills, I think that each of the different shots would need to be weighted differently to actually match up with the skills needed to win matches for each player's style and how often those shots even come up for a particular player. Because this is extremely difficult do, it's likely that the BU test results and someone's Fargo Rating will likely never completely match up.
 

JC

Coos Cues
This is completely understandable to me. The BU test picked a wide range of various ball setups and leave scenarios to test, but in a real match, not all of those scenarios would even come up in some matches. You excel more at the scenarios that actually come up in your games for your style of play. You may dislike certain positional shots, so you will simply rarely leave yourself in those situations in a real game. Rather, you will get position on your next shots with scenarios that you feel you will be able to get on the next ball with a much higher success rate.

While the BU test likely does test all of the important skills, I think that each of the different shots would need to be weighted differently to actually match up with the skills needed to win matches for each player's style and how often those shots even come up for a particular player. Because this is extremely difficult do, it's likely that the BU test results and someone's Fargo Rating will likely never completely match up.

When I did my BU fundamental tests I had a fair number of misses on the cue ball control drills that were just outside the boxes. Shots that in a game if you are approaching the shape zone properly would be just fine. This was the biggest drag on my BU score. It was enough to keep me from being eligible for the harder second test which was also a negative overall. It's all just a good estimate and ultimately is settled on the green right?
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just don't think anyone with a fargorate of 650 or above should really be considered a semi pro.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
I just don't think anyone with a fargorate of 650 or above should really be considered a semi pro.

I've always heard that starting at a Fargo Rating of 700 is considered pro speed. I am personally fine with a 650 being considered semi-pro speed. I play with someone at a 650, and while he is a strong player, calling him pro speed to me doesn't seem quite right.



_______
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always heard that starting at a Fargo Rating of 700 is considered pro speed. I am personally fine with a 650 being considered semi-pro speed. I play with someone at a 650, and while he is a strong player, calling him pro speed to me doesn't seem quite right.




I play at about 675 speed but I wouldn't myself anywhere near pro speed not even close
I live in a small town (around 5,000 people) and there is 3 of us that easily play over 650 speed and 3 or 4 more players that would be over 600
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My post should have read anyone with a 650 rating shouldn't be considered a semi pro. Sorry about my typing skills
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've always heard that starting at a Fargo Rating of 700 is considered pro speed. I am personally fine with a 650 being considered semi-pro speed. I play with someone at a 650, and while he is a strong player, calling him pro speed to me doesn't seem quite right.




I play at about 675 speed but I wouldn't myself anywhere near pro speed not even close
I live in a small town (around 5,000 people) and there is 3 of us that easily play over 650 speed and 3 or 4 more players that would be over 600

Just out of curiosity, is 675 your actual Fargo rating as determined by Fargorate or is that what you feel your speed is according to Fargorate?
 
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nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is actually a misconception that a player's rating goes up because former opponents improve. Sure you can concoct hypothetical scenarios where this is a thing. But in reality it isn't.

Imagine a situation like yours, where you played, say, 8 matches in a tournament a few years ago and got a preliminary rating of, say 550. And now, two years later, without you playing, your preliminary rating is 600. Does this mean my opponents got better? No, it doesn't. It means FargoRate understands better how they play.

Let's dig in

Say you played 8 matches and had the following scores

6 - 3 against a 450 with 500 games in the system
6 - 3 against a 400 with 500 games in the system
6 - 3 against a 500 with 500 games in the system
6 - 3 against a 450 with 50 games in the system
3 - 6 against a ??? with 0 games in the system
6 - 2 against a ??? with 0 games in the system
5 - 6 against a ??? with 0 games in the system
6 - 4 against a ??? with 0 games in the system

For the first 3 matches you were 18-9 against opponents averaging 450--so that's you playing at 550 speed. The next match you also performed at 550 speed, but the system would not count this as much because it has a weaker understanding of how that opponent plays. The next four matches are ignored because the system has no basis to assess your wins and losses. But it still remembers these games.

As time goes on these opponent ratings drift a little, but the major effect is the system starts to understand how those opponents play, all of them, and finally is able to interpret those games you played before.

I had thought if you played an unrated opponent, their rating would be in comparison to yours. Vs last 4 opponents, wouldn't their rating be computed using your 550 as a benchmark to start out?
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just out of curiosity, is 675 your actual Fargo rating as determined by Fargorate or is that what you feel your speed is according to Fargorate?

It is just my guess according to the players that I know who have a rating. I've beat several players with a 680 or above rating. Me and my buddy play about as close to even as you can get. He played a player with a 648 rating a race to 35 for 5k. He won the set 35-23.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I feel like I've seen some things like this making comparisons between Fargo and other rating systems, but since I can't remember where or what exactly it said I can't speak to it's accuracy or subject or objectivity.

Maybe Dr. Dave can have some input on this. I know I've seen rating systems comparisons on his site before, but I haven't looked in a while.
Many different player-rating systems are described and compared here:

player rating systems resource page

Here is a comparison summary for the most common systems:

BU_rating_comparisons.JPG

Example comparison data for the BU playing-ability exams, 10-ball ghost rating, 15-ball-rotation rating, and Fargo Ratings can be found on the AZB BU sticky thread.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
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