How much $$$ is too much when gambling with a friend?

Brozif · May 7, 2009

First let me say that if this topic has been talked about before, I apologize for bringing it up again and it being so long!!

How much money is too much when gambling with a friend?

I have played against friends before and been fortunate to win. Always a cheap set like race to 5 for $20. In doing so, I have noticed that because of it, our friendship has suffered. I have also played a friendly ring 9 game with friends, and when I say friendly, I mean a quarter on the 5 and 50 cents on the 9. I’m not trying to win enough money to make my mortgage payment, or prevent them from being able to pay theirs.

I never quit when I’m ahead. I believe that as long as the person that is losing wants to continue to play, I will give them a chance to win their money back. When playing sets against friends, I have actually tried to offer them weight if I feel that I’m blowing them off the table. Some have taken it, and some haven’t. The one’s that haven’t taken the offer are the ones that seem to think that I’m insulting them by even offering.

Am I insulting them? I don’t mean to, but if I’m winning the sets easily, then as a friend I want them to have a chance. I thought I was being a nice guy. They have taken it as if I think that I am better than them. I have tried to explain to them, that I’m not trying to steal money from them, to the point where I have refused to even take their money. Of course that just upsets them more. Have I insulted them somehow, without even realizing it?

I absolutely refuse to gamble with friends for anything more than table time now.

How do these pro’s play each other for thousands of dollars knowing that it’s so hard to make a living from just playing pool? These guys see each other all the time in big tournaments. I know they’re not friends when they are playing against each other in a tournament match, but outside of the tournament how can they not become friends after spending so much time together? Are SVB and Corey Deuel friends? Could you take $25,000 from a friend, and still be able to call him/her that? I know they have stake horses and all, but some of the loss has to come from them.

I would appreciate any feedback you have. Don’t hesitate to tell me that I’m wrong. I would rather you were 100% honest with me, as I don’t ever want to insult or disrespect any of my opponents.

KoolKat9Lives · May 7, 2009

Good post, good questions.

Every "friend" is a case by case scenario, so although there may be rules of thumb, there's no hard and fast answer. I've noticed many pros won't play certain other pros that they are friends with. Seems they too like an arms length relationship when going for the big money.

Maybe JoeW can break down the physcological basis for this...

But I think you're on the right track and you've basically answered your own question - for YOU. Some players don't give a rat's ass who's money they go after, but you aren't 'that' type. Good for you I say!

macguy · May 7, 2009

Brozif said:
First let me say that if this topic has been talked about before, I apologize for bringing it up again and it being so long!!

How much money is too much when gambling with a friend?

I have played against friends before and been fortunate to win. Always a cheap set like race to 5 for $20. In doing so, I have noticed that because of it, our friendship has suffered. I have also played a friendly ring 9 game with friends, and when I say friendly, I mean a quarter on the 5 and 50 cents on the 9. I’m not trying to win enough money to make my mortgage payment, or prevent them from being able to pay theirs.

I never quit when I’m ahead. I believe that as long as the person that is losing wants to continue to play, I will give them a chance to win their money back. When playing sets against friends, I have actually tried to offer them weight if I feel that I’m blowing them off the table. Some have taken it, and some haven’t. The one’s that haven’t taken the offer are the ones that seem to think that I’m insulting them by even offering.

Am I insulting them? I don’t mean to, but if I’m winning the sets easily, then as a friend I want them to have a chance. I thought I was being a nice guy. They have taken it as if I think that I am better than them. I have tried to explain to them, that I’m not trying to steal money from them, to the point where I have refused to even take their money. Of course that just upsets them more. Have I insulted them somehow, without even realizing it?

I absolutely refuse to gamble with friends for anything more than table time now.

How do these pro’s play each other for thousands of dollars knowing that it’s so hard to make a living from just playing pool? These guys see each other all the time in big tournaments. I know they’re not friends when they are playing against each other in a tournament match, but outside of the tournament how can they not become friends after spending so much time together? Are SVB and Corey Deuel friends? Could you take $25,000 from a friend, and still be able to call him/her that? I know they have stake horses and all, but some of the loss has to come from them.

I would appreciate any feedback you have. Don’t hesitate to tell me that I’m wrong. I would rather you were 100% honest with me, as I don’t ever want to insult or disrespect any of my opponents.

Any amount is too much. Pool is not like say poker. In poker you get the cards or you don't. Pool you beat your opponent much like in boxing. You knock him out and it is personal.

Apocalypse2017 · May 7, 2009

long time ago I had a party at my house. My friends were playin pool on my table and everyone was drinking. One thing led to another and I found myself playing a best of 3 with my friend for $200.00. Of course I smoked him(he thought I was drunk), and he was very upset. But he learned a valueable lesson that night and will never play me for money again. We are still good friends, in fact he was over last night playing some 8 ball.

Sam Waltz · May 7, 2009

Nice post!

I agree with and have experienced just about everything you stated in that post and the best statement you made was about only playin' for table time from now on with friends! Many a "friend" has been lost over the exchange of money and it's not worth it either way. Losin' a friend over gamblin' is just bettin' way too high for my tastes. I've got less friends than I have dollars and I'd rather not part with either one of them!

On to your other question...NO you are not being insulting to them. Their pride is standing in the way of logic IMO! You are being a nice guy in trying to "adjust" the game to be more fair and competitive and apparently they find it insulting uneccessarily. Don't sweat it though, as pride is very important to most and should never be tampered with. If you know that your opponent will feel insulted by offering weight, then remember that and don't offer.

It sounds to me like your cruisin' down a pretty righteous path and if you search yourself for these type of answers you'll be happy to know they are right there to be found. Let your conscience be your guide and don't do anything you aren't comfortable with. You seem to be quite an intelligent person so I'm sure you'll continue to make the right choices regarding your friends and playin' pool with them.

Keep hittin' 'em true sir! Until we meet again... :thumbup:

D3FTW · May 7, 2009

Brozif,

I understand where you are coming from. Every thursday night we (3 friends and I) play a scotch double 8 ball game at my house. Play is usually 5.00USD a stick to play. We will run the game from around 8:30 to about midnight. Coins are fliped to pick partners, and for first break.

Sometimes a large amount of money can be won or lost. I usually feel bad because out of the three people that play two work for me at my store. I know how much they make, and I feel when they get down on the money we should stop the game. I don't know how to get that across without being insulting.

Also I have been known to go double or nothing with friends when I am up on the money. I figure it really wasn't mine to begin with so whats the problem letting them try to earn it back?

Maybe I am just to nice, or dumb with my money. Who knows, in the end I just love playing the game.

I know this dosen't help your situation Brozif, but I do understand how you feel. Anybody else have any advice?

mikeyfrost · May 7, 2009

It's something I honestly dislike doing. I try really hard to avoid it. sometimes though it just happens and it's never as sweet a win as it could be.

CamposCues · May 7, 2009

macguy said:
Any amount is too much. Pool is not like say poker. In poker you get the cards or you don't. Pool you beat your opponent much like in boxing. You knock him out and it is personal.

It's true. After a small bar tournament and lots of drinking my buddy (both have egos) and I were playing some cheap sets. I was up about 50 and he was getting mad and talking trash etc. I talked trash back etc. A couple more sets my way and about bar close, the trash talking and money winning leads to him trying to strangle me. We end up duking it out a little, no biggie, we grew up together it wasn't the first time. We are leaving the bar and he's still pissed and eye balling me from across the lot. I keep trying to lift my leg to get into my truck but can't (pretending). I yell over to him that I can't lift my leg high enough to get in my truck because my pockets full of your money. He runs across the lot and we duke it out again. Damn it was funny...guess you had to be there:wink:

blah blah · May 7, 2009

I don't $ gamble with friends- money changes a lot of feelings. However, competition can still be encouraged with gambling- just not using money as the bet. I even worry that ring games can affect friendships- arguments over safe leaves, people being accused of playing brothers- in law... So I offer, instead of money:

Safe Things to Bet With Friends:

Signed dollar. (I've said this one elsewhere). Loser has to: sign and date the dollar, write the location and reason it was lost, AND include a compliment about the winner. Much debate occurs during the final signing as to whether the slogan constitutes a compliment ("you suck" or "you cheated" don't count, but "you made every fly, you lucky s.o.b." could count). Anyway, it creates a lasting memory.

Favors/ errands. Buy winner a meal. Drive the winner somewhere. Pay for the next social outing (movie, golf, nightclub, whatever.) If a roommate: do winner's dishes/ clean bathroom/ yard work/ etc.

Embarrassing acts/ double- dog- dares. Loser runs around the table squawking like a chicken. Loser has to accept the very next double dog dare or, upon refusal, cough up $10 (sing a song of winner's choosing at karaoke. Get on the mic during the bar band's intermission and announce to everyone that this is your first night out since the institutionalization. Tell that girl at the bar how your imaginary "day at the clinic" went. Whatever.) By this point, the $10 exit option should no longer be a gamble with hard feelings.

trustyrusty · May 7, 2009

I say screw 'em....take all their money, and buy yourself some new and better friends.

J/K, of course.

Sam Waltz · May 7, 2009

Lol

I've got two signed dollars from one of my buddies! He signed one of 'em "To Texas Hold 'em Sam, the BEST there ever was!" It's a keeper! He's got one from me when he smoked my a$$ bowling one time, but I'm sure I wrote some smarta$$ "compliment" on that one as well! Always fun and nobody gets their panties in a bunch! :thumbup:

ShootingArts · May 7, 2009

a no-win deal

Great posts in this thread already but I'll add my take. Playing friends for enough money to matter is a no-win deal. I made a hard and fast rule against betting cash with friends. Regardless of if you hurt their pocket book or their pride you still lose.

Long ago I learned to play two speeds, commercial grade and banger grade. On a social evening I didn't break out the commercial grade game that I used to make money. None of my friends focused on pool as intensely as I did and none played at my level. Most could beat me at something else, pinball, foosball, something they were more interested in. I always realized that I had an unfair advantage on a pool table and never felt the need to grind it in.

Real friends are very hard to come by and friendship and gambling cash don't mix.

Hu

Kevin Lindstrom · May 7, 2009

It better be cheap bets

If your gonna gamble with friends it better be cheap bets otherwise you are surely asking to lose the friendship. I gamble very cheap with people I consider friends. Gambling has ruined the game for me. If I can't play for at least a dollar I have no interest in playing. My friend and I will play a game of 14.1 to 100 points for 5 dollars. We go back and forth winning and losing. Nobody gets hurt and the 5 is enough to keep both of us interested in winning the game.

Kevin

i4pool · May 7, 2009

Yes... Good post!

Personally, if the person is a valued friend and I noticed the friendship suffering I wouldn't do it anymore. But I also think it depends on the particular friend. I have a buddy who enjoys the added pressure of gambling for a small amount. I think it should depend on the individual.

-Abe

Da Bank · May 7, 2009

I have experienced a bit of what you are talking about, but have also had some different experiences.

I have my pool buddies, and they always want to gamble. For the most part, I am the youngest or newest guy in the group... which also means I'm the one improving at the most rapid rate. 6 months ago my friend could have given me the 6 out on the big tables and still killed me, today he gives me the 8 and we split sets 50/50. He does get visibly frustrated sometimes and this is almost always because of how he plays and has very little to do with me. My friends and I never gamble with each other for more than $100 in total losses in a given night, and usually it's not even close to that. One of us is probably going to leave in a worse mood than the other person, but it never becomes personal and we enjoy the competition because it drives us to improve. If one of us comes out one day and beats the snot out of the others, it is almost a certainty that next week the others are gonna come back very strong and even things up again.

The point is, when we are competing then that is what we are doing... friendship doesn't have much to do with it. We know we aren't going to cheat each other, so tempers never flare too high. After competition is done, we are buddies again and enjoying beers together.

If you have friends that are consistently getting their noses out of joint for losing and will not take weight, then stop gambling with them. You have to be able to tell the difference between being frustrated with how you play and actually getting angry at your friend.

BillPorter · May 7, 2009

Yes, but...

For the most part, I agree with macguy and avoid gambling with friends. After all, as a certified "locksmith," if you see me "gambling" at pool, I probably have way the best of it. And you just don't put a friend at that kind of disadvantage. But, as with most rules, I believe this one has an exception or two. Some of my friends at the pool hall never play a game of pool without gambling on it. On a slow day, with few potential opponents available, one of the gambling friends may challenge me to play some one-pocket (about the only game I play). But since we are friends, the stakes might be $5 a game. In this setting, winning or losing $10 - $20 isn't going to upset anyone. And with these guys, we always "adjust" if someone wins a couple of sessions in a row.

iba7467 · May 7, 2009

It depends on the person

If your friends gamble regularly and lose at least occasionally, you beating them should not be an issue. All of my friends and I gamble. Usually for small stakes. I have busted a couple of them more than once though. Even to the point of taking their cue. The thing is that they would have done the same playing anyone else in the room. I might also stake or bet with them any other time. If I make a bet, friend or not, I shake hands and pay up when I'm done. I wouldn't make the bet if I didn't expect there was a possibility I could lose.

Note: I generally do not play friends for large sums and if it is a friendly game the goal is to do no more than win enough to buy dinner.

BVal · May 7, 2009

Apocalypse2012 said:
long time ago I had a party at my house. My friends were playin pool on my table and everyone was drinking. One thing led to another and I found myself playing a best of 3 with my friend for $200.00. Of course I smoked him(he thought I was drunk), and he was very upset. But he learned a valueable lesson that night and will never play me for money again. We are still good friends, in fact he was over last night playing some 8 ball.

For how much

BVal

houmatroy · May 7, 2009

I let everybody pick what side the fence they're on !

I won't gamble money with any close friend...meals or drinks don't count...If somebody is constantly trying to gamble money with you then they are drawing the line in the sand...they become a acquaintance and not a true friend..so then game on...I have people that I use to gamble against also that have become close friends & we mutually just quit betting against each other..so it's mostly a case by case issue & the other person usually makes it clear what position they take.

Apocalypse2017 · May 7, 2009

BVal said:
For how much

BVal

he learned his lesson

How much $$$ is too much when gambling with a friend?

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