Chalk Experiment Results, with Video

dr_dave

dr_dave

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dr_dave said:
Concerning the "number of hits until miscue," Silver Cup was very similar to Master (flag and pre-flag) and Lava. However, the Magic Chalk was off the charts!!! That stuff really remains effective on the tip for a long time! Here's a summary of all of the data in this category:

chalk: average number of shots before miscue
Master: 8
pre-flag: 8
Lava: 9
Blue Diamond: 11
Kamui: 15
Silver Cup: 7
Magic Chalk: 29!!!

Again, if you chalk before every shot, this doesn't make much of a difference. However, if you forget to chalk, or don't like to chalk often, or don't chalk effectively, and if you miscue often, then Magic Chalk could make a big difference in your game (assuming the miscuing is not a result of poor or inconsistent technique, which is often the case).

Thanks again,
Dave

PS: Honestly, I was shocked by how many off-center-hit shots I could hit without miscuing using the Magic Chalk. The other companies need to figure out what they are doing and do their best to copy (or improve upon) it!
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I'm surprised more people didn't comment on this. Is it because Magic Chalk is difficult to get? Or is it expensive? Or is it because people just don't care which chalk they use because they chalk carefully on every shot anyway?

Regards,
Dave
 
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buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

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Yes. Hard to find. Checked Amazon and Ebay with no results. Web search resulted in no suppliers.
Would love to try it though.
 
KRJ

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buckshotshoey said:
Yes. Hard to find. Checked Amazon and Ebay with no results. Web search resulted in no suppliers.
Would love to try it though.
Click to expand...

Surely you jest ? Search the AZB for sale threads under "chicagorj" and you can buy as much as want. :thumbup:
 
KRJ

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dr_dave said:
I'm surprised more people didn't comment on this. Is it because Magic Chalk is difficult to get? Or is it expensive? Or is it because people just don't care which chalk they use because they chalk carefully on every shot anyway?

Regards,
Dave
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Not real expensive....$12 for a 2 piece box, but it will last you a long time, and yes, it's not easy to find, but I do sell here in the for sale threads. Still a fraction of the cost compared to Kamaui, and a little more than some of the others :thumbup:
 
KRJ

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buckshotshoey said:
???..... Nothing came up on the search engines. Not my fault. No need for that comment.
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What comment ? Surely u jest? I'm just joking around that I have some, There was no malice in my comment,,,,I even used the big thumbs up :thumbup:

Search by the word russian, u might have better results, i think there is another feller selling some too
 
JB Cases

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dr_dave said:
I certainly made this clear in the video. But by "no one" you probably meant "no one except Dr. Dave."

It would be interesting to do a wide range of tests with fixed vs. random vs. discrete-turning cue orientations, and with different tip hardnesses and chalks, but this would take a very long time.

I think it is possible that a fixed orientation might actually help in some cases because the abrasives in the chalk might be firmly locked into place on the tip during the first few hits. Meanwhile, the chalk and abrasive might be shaken off the other parts of the tip not being hit. This might occur more with some chalks (... maybe the non-"sticky" ones), but I'm not sure. The Magic Chalk certainly didn't seem to have a problem with multiple hits on the same part of the tip.

These are interesting questions and conjectures, but they are meaningless until somebody actually does a careful and complete experiment. I'm done with chalk experiments for now, but maybe I'll revisit this again in the future. Maybe others with contribute also (... I hope so).

Catch you later,
Dave
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sorry I missed it that you oriented the cue the same each time.

there is a spring loaded cue out there which I think would be the perfect low tech way to test these things.

it could easily be mounted to a heavy base and used to take our human error.
 
KRJ

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JB Cases said:
sorry I missed it that you oriented the cue the same each time.

there is a spring loaded cue out there which I think would be the perfect low tech way to test these things.

it could easily be mounted to a heavy base and used to take our human error.
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Probably won't matter much, russian magic chalk is still gonna crush all others :thumbup:
 
The Renfro

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ChicagoRJ said:
Probably won't matter much, russian magic chalk is still gonna crush all others :thumbup:
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I'm your huckleberry.......

But on a "hey I hit the ball 30 times without a misscue" test Balabushak is going to crush us both... They have the largest abrasives on the market.... Good thing that's not the only thing that chalk is graded on......
 
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The Renfro

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dr_dave said:
I'm surprised more people didn't comment on this. Is it because Magic Chalk is difficult to get? Or is it expensive? Or is it because people just don't care which chalk they use because they chalk carefully on every shot anyway?

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

I have the magic chalk here and have looked at it under the microscope... Really hard to tell it from the blue diamond... The micron size of the abrasives on average is the same with a similar ratio...

Was the test performed in the same room on the same table? Had it rained or was the humidity different between the days of testing... How much more play had your tip gotten since the last test....

I would have expected it to perform about the same as the blue diamond and would have expected the Kamui to have ourperformed all others in this particular test just because of what I have seen and experienced with them all...

Chris
 
buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

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The Renfro said:
I have the magic chalk here and have looked at it under the microscope... Really hard to tell it from the blue diamond... The micron size of the abrasives on average is the same with a similar ratio...

Was the test performed in the same room on the same table? Had it rained or was the humidity different between the days of testing... How much more play had your tip gotten since the last test....

I would have expected it to perform about the same as the blue diamond and would have expected the Kamui to have ourperformed all others in this particular test just because of what I have seen and experienced with them all...

Chris
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Kamui MIGHT outperform magic chalk. But I want to try it, not only based on Dr. Daves experiment, but also based on yours. I like the fact that the magic chalk doesn't stick to the cue ball any worse then masters.
 
The Renfro

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buckshotshoey said:
Kamui MIGHT outperform magic chalk. But I want to try it, not only based on Dr. Daves experiment, but also based on yours. I like the fact that the magic chalk doesn't stick to the cue ball any worse then masters.
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It's good chalk... not trying to knock it... just was very surprised by the findings.... will be picking up several different ones I have missed at the Open from Omega... looking for NIR Super Pro among others..... Maybe pick up more of the Magic Chalk if anyone is stocking it.... I only had a donated cube so I could use more for playing around....
 
KRJ

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The Renfro said:
I'm your huckleberry.......

But on a "hey I hit the ball 30 times without a misscue" test Balabushak is going to crush us both... They have the largest abrasives on the market.... Good thing that's not the only thing that chalk is graded on......
Click to expand...

Doubt it. But give it a whirl. I sent dr, dave the magic chalk cause it fears no other brand and I knew the results would be off the charts. :thumbup: I tested myself and posted it in the MF a few months back.....I went 56 shows before miscue :thumbup:
 
dr_dave

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The Renfro said:
I have the magic chalk here and have looked at it under the microscope... Really hard to tell it from the blue diamond... The micron size of the abrasives on average is the same with a similar ratio...
Click to expand...
Maybe the abrasive has different properties (strength, hardness, texture, or shape).

The Renfro said:
Was the test performed in the same room on the same table?
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Yes.

The Renfro said:
Had it rained or was the humidity different between the days of testing...
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It did rain that day, which is unusual for Colorado. I'll retest both the Master and Magic Chalk today to see if there is any diffference. Today is a typical dry Colorado day.


The Renfro said:
How much more play had your tip gotten since the last test....
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None. My chalk-test cue (Predator 314 with the stock tip ... LePro I think) had not been used between any of the tests, nor has it been used since.

The Renfro said:
I would have expected it to perform about the same as the blue diamond and would have expected the Kamui to have ourperformed all others in this particular test just because of what I have seen and experienced with them all...
Click to expand...
I was also very surprised by the results. Again, I'll run another set of tests today (if I can find the time) just to confirm.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
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Thanks for taking the time to do this. It was good and some of the results were not what I was expecting.
 
The Renfro

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dr_dave said:
Maybe the abrasive has different properties (strength, hardness, texture, or shape).

Yes.

It did rain that day, which is unusual for Colorado. I'll retest both the Master and Magic Chalk today to see if there is any diffference. Today is a typical dry Colorado day.


None. My chalk-test cue (Predator 314 with the stock tip ... LePro I think) had not been used between any of the tests, nor has it been used since.

I was also very surprised by the results. Again, I'll run another set of tests today (if I can find the time) just to confirm.

Catch you later,
Dave
Click to expand...

Your time and efforts are appreciated :thumbup:

Chris
 
dr_dave

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dr_dave said:
chalk: average number of shots before miscue
Master: 8
pre-flag: 8
Lava: 9
Blue Diamond: 11
Kamui: 15
Silver Cup: 7
Magic Chalk: 29!!!
Click to expand...
I just did another set of tests to see if things change much from one day to the next, and with slightly different conditions (today was much drier than on the day of the previous tests) and procedures (with cleaning chalk marks, and with how much chalk was applied). I did two sets of tests with each chalk and averaged the results. The results are listed in the order the tests were performed. Again, I was careful to completely remove the chalk and scuff the tip between each set of tests. Here's what I got:

With vigorously rubbing (with my finger and finger nail) and wiping (with cloth) the chalk marks off the CB after each shot (NOTE - With the first set of tests summarized above, I was just wiping the marks off after each shot):

chalk: number of shots before miscue
Magic Chalk: 21, 17 - avg: 19
Kamui: 17, 15 - avg: 16
Master: 13, 10 - avg: 11.5
Silver Cup: 9, 10 avg: 9.5

Then I tried another set of tests with the Magic Chalk, applying more chalk than normal to the tip, and then only wiping (and not vigorously rubbing) the chalk mark of the CB after each shot. This time, I got:

chalk: number of shots before miscue
Magic Chalk: 25, 29 - avg: 27

I would have liked to have tested all of the chalks under various conditions, but I have already put in far too much time into the project. Maybe some other people can do similar careful experiments and report their results. It is not that difficult, it just takes lots of time.

These new results taught me several things:

- How the CB is cleaned between each shot seems to make a difference

- Hitting the CB in the same place every time (and not cleaning thoroughly) might result in some chalk particles being retained on the CB in addition to on the tip.

- Results might vary with the amount of chalk first applied to the tip.

- Robot tests results would be useful, where as many variables as possible could be eliminated. But tip preparation, chalking, and ball cleaning would still need to be done very carefully and consistently.

Regardless, I think the main conclusions in the video are still accurate.

To me, here's the bottom line: If you chalk before every shot, the type of chalk doesn't seem to make much difference. However, if you forget to chalk, or don't like to chalk often, or don't chalk effectively, and if you miscue often, then you might prefer one of the chalks that remains effective on the tip longer. Magic Chalk still seems to be the best in this category (with Kamui 2nd best, and Blue Diamond also good).

Regards,
Dave
 
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