American 14.1 Straight Pool 2018

sjm

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Also, Shaw and SVB are “great” straight pool players? Neither one has played it much at all, has he? Perhaps the same can be said about Earl?

All three have medaled (SVB got beat by Appleton in the final a few years ago, Strickland lost the final to Immonen a couple of years ago and Shaw came third when a truly ridiculous ruling cost him his semifinal match a couple of years ago) in the Dragon Straight Pool event. Shane has run over 300 and Shaw 276, and Shaw has the current record run at the Derby City Classic 14.1 event of 227. These guys are great straight pool players and have shown it in competition. Earl, a serious straight pool player, has far more credentials in straight pool than either of them, is a strong pattern player, and has a lot of 100+ runs to his name in competition, although I don't know what his best is. Alex Pagulayan, like Shane and Jayson, is not very experienced at straight pool, but has shown some great form when he has played it, which is why he made my list.
 

sjm

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Okay ... so ... how would the combined list of all of the players you’ve noted above, including both those in the field and those not (total of 24), stack up against the top 24 in the actual fields in the US Opens held during the golden years of straight pool?

I think these twenty four, as a group, wouldn't be too far behind the most elite fields of the 1970's and early 1980's, but the top eleven in the actual field don't even nearly stack up to the top eleven of that era, (in my view, that's Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Pete Margo, Joe Balsis, Ray Martin, Lou Butera, Allen Hopkins, Dallas West, and Dan DiLiberto), every one of which was a ball running machine. Even the fringe guys in those fields like Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Jack Colavita, Frank McGown, Pat Fleming and Irving Crane (who was still a world beater at 60 years old) could put the big hurt on any one of those eleven, and often did.

Of course, the biggest problem, one we've all noted, is that we don't seem to be able to manage to get the best twenty four straight poolers (as I defined them) in the same place at the same time, and the reason is because there is no sanctioned world championship in the discipline and relaitvely low prize money in the Dragon event.
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
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I think these twenty four, as a group, wouldn't be too far behind the most elite fields of the 1970's and early 1980's, but the top eleven in the actual field don't even nearly stack up to the top eleven of that era, (in my view, that's Mike Sigel, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Pete Margo, Joe Balsis, Ray Martin, Lou Butera, Allen Hopkins, Dallas West, and Dan DiLiberto), every one of which was a ball running machine. Even the fringe guys in those fields like Larry Lisciotti, Dick Lane, Jack Colavita, Frank McGown, Pat Fleming and Irving Crane (who was still a world beater at 60 years old) could put the big hurt on any one of those eleven, and often did.

Of course, the biggest problem, one we've all noted, is that we don't seem to be able to manage to get the best twenty four straight poolers (as I defined them) in the same place at the same time, and the reason is because there is no sanctioned world championship in the discipline and relaitvely low prize money in the Dragon event.

I concur in this analysis, based on what I've read and seen (don't know much about, and haven't seen -- in person or on film -- some of the "fringe" players).
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
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All three have medaled (SVB got beat by Appleton in the final a few years ago, Strickland lost the final to Immonen a couple of years ago and Shaw came third when a truly ridiculous ruling cost him his semifinal match a couple of years ago) in the Dragon Straight Pool event. Shane has run over 300 and Shaw 276, and Shaw has the current record run at the Derby City Classic 14.1 event of 227. These guys are great straight pool players and have shown it in competition. Earl, a serious straight pool player, has far more credentials in straight pool than either of them, is a strong pattern player, and has a lot of 100+ runs to his name in competition, although I don't know what his best is. Alex Pagulayan, like Shane and Jayson, is not very experienced at straight pool, but has shown some great form when he has played it, which is why he made my list.

But I'm not fully buying this -- at least not when it comes to SVB and Shaw. Medaling one time doesn't a great straight pool player make, IMHO. Also, the video that I've seen of Shaw playing straight pool reveals a power player/shot maker supreme who has far too much "hit and hope" in his game to be ensured of consistent outcomes. I am in no way saying -- especially when it comes to SVB -- that there is less than strong potential for greatness in straight pool. Just look at how great they are in other games, based largely on supreme talent. But you have argued in the past (specifically when talking about Hohmann) that one needs to have produced a body of work -- and one that involved playing against strong/deep fields -- in order to be considered a true great in the lineup of straight pool players across the history of the game. That simply can't be said about these two players. Indeed, some of the specifics that you cite are the lengths of their runs, one of which (Shaw's 227) was offense only. How good is his safety game? Do we even have a basis to know?
 

sjm

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Silver Member
But I'm not fully buying this -- at least not when it comes to SVB and Shaw. Medaling one time doesn't a great straight pool player make, IMHO. Also, the video that I've seen of Shaw playing straight pool reveals a power player/shot maker supreme who has far too much "hit and hope" in his game to be ensured of consistent outcomes. I am in no way saying -- especially when it comes to SVB -- that there is less than strong potential for greatness in straight pool. Just look at how great they are in other games, based largely on supreme talent. But you have argued in the past (specifically when talking about Hohmann) that one needs to have produced a body of work -- and one that involved playing against strong/deep fields -- in order to be considered a true great in the lineup of straight pool players across the history of the game. That simply can't be said about these two players. Indeed, some of the specifics that you cite are the lengths of their runs, one of which (Shaw's 227) was offense only. How good is his safety game? Do we even have a basis to know?

No problem here with your point of view. I gave my slant on things, but some of this is subjective, and you make an excellent point about body of work.

Anyway, hope I've shed some light on this subject for you, as you specifically solicited my response in your original post.
 

Seth C.

AzB Silver Member
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No problem here with your point of view. I gave my slant on things, but some of this is subjective, and you make an excellent point about body of work.

Anyway, hope I've shed some light on this subject for you, as you specifically solicited my response in your original post.

This is all good, and I appreciate your input. You come with convictions, which makes for good discussion and debate.
 

sjm

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This is all good, and I appreciate your input. You come with convictions, which makes for good discussion and debate.

Yes, it was an interesting exchange and I'm glad our online chat was conducted in a tone of mutual respect.
 

AtLarge

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The tournament starts in about 15 hours.

Is it being streamed? Anyone know any streaming details, including schedule, commentators, number of tables, etc.

I see that Carom Cafe has webcams in the room. Will one or more of those be the tournament streaming source?
 

Positively Ralf

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The tournament starts in about 15 hours.

Is it being streamed? Anyone know any streaming details, including schedule, commentators, number of tables, etc.

I see that Carom Cafe has webcams in the room. Will one or more of those be the tournament streaming source?

Second this. Would like to know any details. As for the carom cams, I seriously doubt those will be the main streaming source. although kudos to them for having those cams installed for what seems like a decade now.
 

AtLarge

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noon has passed (12:04) and still no info?

edit -- Andy has posted the 8 groups of 6. Dechaine is playing.
 
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Cuefan

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Any way to view this without being a member of Facebook? Clicking the link takes you to a page that requires you to log in to Facebook.
 

AtLarge

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some of the first round matches are nearing an end, and still no stream

edit -- Hohmann blanked Babica (per live scoring)
 
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Bob Jewett

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I called. They're working on it. Andy's stream is/was limited to the members of his 14.1 faceplant group.
 

Positively Ralf

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stream is up via the highrock productions page on facebook.

on a side note, efren reyes ran 60 vs local player Tom Walters. Walters came to the table and is on the verge of running out.
 
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AtLarge

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stream is up via the highrock productions page on facebook.

on a side note, efren reyes ran 60 vs local player Tom Walters. Walters came to the table and is on the verge of running out.

Tom Walter (no "s") is no spring chicken any more, but he can beat anyone in a 14.1 game if things go well.
 

AtLarge

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It looks like the 9 pm matches may have started. Anyone have a stream?

edit -- just came up
 

Bob Jewett

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stream is up via the highrock productions page on facebook.

on a side note, efren reyes ran 60 vs local player Tom Walter. Walter came to the table and is on the verge of running out.
They said on the stream that Tom did run 125 and out on Efren.
 
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