I'm quitting APA😞..Lost the local APA Championship last night

Icon of Sin · Dec 18, 2016

cookie man said:
I'm a 9 so the 7 would be spotted 20 balls, and he can't win.

Well yeah, you're a 9 but you would be a 15 if it went that high...

I kid but that's the difference really. There isn't really much difference in skill between and 6, 7 or 8 in APA barbox 9ball. When it comes to being a 9 though you could get someone that either just became a 9 and could be overrated, or you could get someone that plays like a local shortstop.

Dunnn51 · Dec 18, 2016

Bigkat said:
Last night my team lost the local 9ball APA championship. Tied 2-2. Went to the 5th and final match and we lost. I'm NOT upset we lost but because of TWO other factors:
1) Some lower ranked players are not open to learning. They get upset because you called a timeout and things like that. That is not a winning team environment!!
2) Sandbagging. I am a 7 in eight ball and an 8 in 9 ball. Last night I played a guy who I am equal to in terms of skill level. However I am ranked as an 8 he is ranked as a 7 . So I had to spot him 10 balls!! HE DEFINITELY IS AN 8 AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!! I am not 10 balls better than him nor is he 10 balls better than me. However they have a complete sandbagging team. So it was a 65-55 race.When it was all said and done when he got to his 55 balls I had 58!!

Huh ?!? Whaaa,... :sad:

Bigkat said:
@Bca 8ball I did fly the cue off the table TWICE and I did scratch on the break once also!! �� So those 3 timesDIDaccount for my loss!!

Fixed that for ya

Seriously, you sound like a competitor and APA should not be taken quite so seriously! I regularly face opponents who are easily my same skill and wind up spotting them 10-14 balls in a match. If I am not on my game itsa sure loss.

Lose the lag/toss --- I LOSE
Dry Break, ----------- I LOSE
Scratch/foul/BIH, --- I likely lose
Rattle a pocket, ----- I likely lose

That's a lot to fade during a match, but for some stupid reason. I LIKE IT ! :scratchhead: :shrug:

Cory in DC · Dec 18, 2016

Dunnn51 said:
Huh ?!? Whaaa,... :sad:

Fixed that for ya

Seriously, you sound like a competitor and APA should not be taken quite so seriously! I regularly face opponents who are easily my same skill and wind up spotting them 10-14 balls in a match. If I am not on my game itsa sure loss.

Lose the lag/toss --- I LOSE
Dry Break, ----------- I LOSE
Scratch/foul/BIH, --- I likely lose
Rattle a pocket, ----- I likely lose

That's a lot to fade during a match, but for some stupid reason. I LIKE IT ! :scratchhead: :shrug:

Sounds like if you bear down and don't make mistakes then you expect to win. Maybe you actually are better than them?

This is one reason I actually like handicaps in league. Many people like to complain that less skilled players should nut up and play even races. That might be good for them if they don't give up. But, as a higher handicap, a league built around that would be boring and too easy to win. With handicaps, if I play a decent 5 and I know I have to make 2 balls to 1, I have to focus or lose, which is how it should be.

cookie man · Dec 18, 2016

Icon of Sin said:
Well yeah, you're a 9 but you would be a 15 if it went that high...

I kid but that's the difference really. There isn't really much difference in skill between and 6, 7 or 8 in APA barbox 9ball. When it comes to being a 9 though you could get someone that either just became a 9 and could be overrated, or you could get someone that plays like a local shortstop.

Ok, you got me lol

Dunnn51 · Dec 18, 2016

Offense/Defense

Cory in DC said:
Sounds like if you bear down and don't make mistakes then you expect to win. Maybe you actually are better than them?

This is one reason I actually like handicaps in league. Many people like to complain that less skilled players should nut up and play even races. That might be good for them if they don't give up. But, as a higher handicap, a league built around that would be boring and too easy to win. With handicaps, if I play a decent 5 and I know I have to make 2 balls to 1, I have to focus or lose, which is how it should be.

Dunno if I am better than them;let's just say I like parity. Any given day any of us can beat each other, guess it depends on which way the wind blows.

Back from leagues, and the wind blew my direction this week. Faced a seasoned league player in 8-ball. Multiple Vegas trips for him. I won lag and got a 2-0 jump on him which I held to my hill game. Was 3 & out for the match win, and couldn't get my CB to roll clear of his ball to get angle on my 2nd shot. He won the next 2 games.
Again, 1 MISTAKE and the momentum of the match had turned.

I think 8-ball is a mix of offense and defense at the proper times. You either run-out your pattern, or you make sure your opponent cannot.

hang-the-9 · Dec 19, 2016

s.serna said:
The handicap seems right if the balls were that close but don't you think if you are highest rated in 8ball shouldn't you be highest rated in 9ball also which is an easier game??? so who is the real sandbagger?

Since when is 9 ball an easier game? High level 8 ball between two good players can get pretty tactical, but it's not harder than 9 ball by any means.

hang-the-9 · Dec 19, 2016

lorider said:
Well if what you say is true then you are the sandbagger because a decent 5 is capable of running out.....or at least running 6 or 7 balls a rack starting with bih. If he does that 3 times a match he darn near has his required points to win the match. Btw I have been a 6 four times over the Las year but am currently a 5. No.8 should ever lose by 3 points giving a 7 bih in hand after 3 breaks during a match. I still say a legitimate 7 should beat the crap out of a legitimate 8 getting bih on 3 breaks..

A 5 in the APA is a C player, they should be able to run 4-5 balls with ball in hand. 6 or 7 is pretty much in B- to B territory (talking about average runs).

If I had a 5 ran 6-7 balls on me every rack, I'd have some words with him about cheating the system.

lorider · Dec 19, 2016

hang-the-9 said:
A 5 in the APA is a C player, they should be able to run 4-5 balls with ball in hand. 6 or 7 is pretty much in B- to B territory (talking about average runs).

If I had a 5 ran 6-7 balls on me every rack, I'd have some words with him about cheating the system.

I have been a 6 four times in the last year....just cant seem to play at that level week after week. Does that make you feel better ? :grin-square:

lorider · Dec 19, 2016

hang-the-9 said:
A 5 in the APA is a C player, they should be able to run 4-5 balls with ball in hand. 6 or 7 is pretty much in B- to B territory (talking about average runs).

If I had a 5 ran 6-7 balls on me every rack, I'd have some words with him about cheating the system.

If I was a sandbagger I damn sure would not have lost the most important match this session as I stated in the thread I made poking fun at this thread. .

Read my reply to your post in that thread. As for the match you are referring to in this thread..any decent 5 oughta run out a wide open table where the 7 smacked the rack at warp speed every time leaving a bunch of hangers and you starting with big... If he cant ...he oughta be a 4 or lower .

hang-the-9 · Dec 19, 2016

lorider said:
I have been a 6 four times in the last year....just cant seem to play at that level week after week. Does that make you feel better ? :grin-square:

Are you talking about yourself or an APA 5 in 9 ball in general? APA 5 is a C player. A C player, by definition, can't run 6+ calls consistently. That is B player level. Even 5 balls all the time can be tough for a C player.

C- starts at about a 3 ball runner, and up to about 5 for a C+, B range is from 6-7, A is 8-9, with ball in hand, over a 10+ rack average.

If an APA 5 is running out 6+ balls all the time, they should be a 6 or 7.

Pretty much everyone puts me in at a B+, I can beat the 7 ball ghost, not the 8, although I don't try to play that game much so maybe I can LOL

If a C player can beat the 6 ball ghost, that is a B or B-

Physiqz · Dec 19, 2016

Best way to get better is to leave league behind. I never looked back. I still play 1 night on a TAP team. But not after this session. I do not miss APA though. Their 9's cant handle the 7's in tap lol.

lorider · Dec 19, 2016

Physiqz said:
Best way to get better is to leave league behind. I never looked back. I still play 1 night on a TAP team. But not after this session. I do not miss APA though. Their 9's cant handle the 7's in tap lol.

Why dont you tell that to the top 50 or so us amateure finishers ? Better yet ...make it top 100 or so .

lorider · Dec 19, 2016

Physiqz said:
Best way to get better is to leave league behind. I never looked back. I still play 1 night on a TAP team. But not after this session. I do not miss APA though. Their 9's cant handle the 7's in tap lol.

Why dont you tell that to the top 50 or so us amateure finishers ? Better yet ...make it top 100 or so .

Players like Bryan parks who people complain oughta be a pro.

Yea I agree low level players aren't very good. Saying apa 9's are not as good as player 2 levels below them in other leagues borders on ludicrous.

lorider · Dec 19, 2016

Physiqz said:
Best way to get better is to leave league behind. I never looked back. I still play 1 night on a TAP team. But not after this session. I do not miss APA though. Their 9's cant handle the 7's in tap lol.

Btw...although I am.only a 5 I pls masters also. Even though I get my butt handed to me sometimes I also try to learn some thing from every match.

Quite honestly ....some times its no fun . Like last sunday. I had a 7/8 put a 3 pack on me in 8 ball and a 3 pack on me in 9 ball.

I have had a couple of 9's put 5 and 6 packs on me every time I pls them. Do tap 7's honestly do that routinely ? If they do they are sandbaggers.

Dont tell me tap players dont sandbag. The tap organization is apparently aware of its sandbagging problem as its the only league I know of that has one set of handicaps for regular session and another set for tournaments as it seems there is a prevalance of players who " suddenly " play a whole lot better in tournaments than regular session.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones :wink:

ironsoldier71 · Dec 19, 2016

I hate to read stories like this. It is all too common. I have played APA since the late 80s. I have been to Vegas in both APA and BCA. I complained for years about the sandbagging. My LO responded by upping me too high at city finals. I won by a hair and we got to super 16 in Vegas. Then after we got back I quit and have not played APA since. I'm focusing on tournament and regional tour spots. There is no sandbagging there. It is a simple race to format. Double elim.

I prefer a straight up fight these days and if I lose it is not due to sandbagging handicaps.

You might try that in your area. If you look up on here on AZB they list a lot of regional tours from all over the USA. find one and go with that. As an 8 you have skill. I hope this helps your experience in the sport. APA was a good idea gone horrible wrong IMO...

Kind Regards,
Michael McDonald
Shooters Billiard Supply
www.shootersbilliardsupply.com

hang-the-9 · Dec 20, 2016

lorider said:
Btw...although I am.only a 5 I pls masters also. Even though I get my butt handed to me sometimes I also try to learn some thing from every match.

Quite honestly ....some times its no fun . Like last sunday. I had a 7/8 put a 3 pack on me in 8 ball and a 3 pack on me in 9 ball.

I have had a couple of 9's put 5 and 6 packs on me every time I pls them. Do tap 7's honestly do that routinely ? If they do they are sandbaggers.

Dont tell me tap players dont sandbag. The tap organization is apparently aware of its sandbagging problem as its the only league I know of that has one set of handicaps for regular session and another set for tournaments as it seems there is a prevalance of players who " suddenly " play a whole lot better in tournaments than regular session.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones :wink:

TAP ranking maxes out at 7, so a 7 in TAP is same as a 9 in APA 9 ball. You can't sandbag as a 7 LOL The biggest obstacle in fair rankings is players that don't say anything and league operators that don't care.
Someone posted that they have to spot someone in league when they get the spot when they gamble, that is crazy. Just tell whoever runs the league the player is a known player that is cheating to keep his rating down. And yes I think that trying to keep your handicap down or lying about your skill to get a lower rating in a tournament is as much cheating as moving a ball when someone is not looking or anything else. I have no respect for those people, scum of the earth.

lorider · Dec 20, 2016

hang-the-9 said:
TAP ranking maxes out at 7, so a 7 in TAP is same as a 9 in APA 9 ball. You can't sandbag as a 7 LOL The biggest obstacle in fair rankings is players that don't say anything and league operators that don't care.
Someone posted that they have to spot someone in league when they get the spot when they gamble, that is crazy. Just tell whoever runs the league the player is a known player that is cheating to keep his rating down. And yes I think that trying to keep your handicap down or lying about your skill to get a lower rating in a tournament is as much cheating as moving a ball when someone is not looking or anything else. I have no respect for those people, scum of the earth.

My bad...did not know tap maxed out at 7. Still stand behind the rest of my post though

And yea...i agree with your post entirely .

APA Operator · Dec 20, 2016

ironsoldier71 said:
I complained for years about the sandbagging. My LO responded by upping me too high at city finals. I won by a hair and we got to super 16 in Vegas.

Anybody else see anything strange in this statement?

Some of the biggest complainers are the people who think it should be easy. It's supposed to be hard. How can you be too high and still win at all, much less get to the top 16 out of hundreds of teams in Vegas?

hang-the-9 · Dec 20, 2016

lorider said:
My bad...did not know tap maxed out at 7. Still stand behind the rest of my post though

And yea...i agree with your post entirely .

Apparently there is also some secret "partial" ratings you can see as a league owner/runner in TAP also. When I first joined TAP (played 2 seasons a few years ago), they set you as a 3 and you play another player even, then base your ranking on that one match.

I played well and won 3 games easily with pretty much 0 mistakes. Next week, I was not only a 7, but I was told I was a 7 point something which made me the highest ranked TAP player in the Eastern region LOL

I soon dropped down to a 6 and stayed there. Funny thing is that when the USAPL league started in my area, they play 3 matches to get your rating. The rating goes from 30-125. Everyone started as a 50 since we were all new to the league. After 3 matches, I looked at my ranking and I was a 125! I was maxed out and put in the level of an A or A+ player! Again, I soon dropped down to about the 90-100 level but not before getting my butt kicked in the first few matches as a 125. The lesson is not to play at your top speed when getting your rankings LOL

lorider · Dec 20, 2016

APA Operator said:
Anybody else see anything strange in this statement?

Some of the biggest complainers are the people who think it should be easy. It's supposed to be hard. How can you be too high and still win at all, much less get to the top 16 out of hundreds of teams in Vegas?

Yea I saw it but did not bother responding.....you know the saying....can't fix stupid

It does puzzle me how you can be raised " too " high and still win..

Years ago I did my share of complaining about peoples handicap. Then I started noticing some people I complained about were being raised. It was not due to my complaint though . It was due to the fact the handicap system does work If you ensure the score sheets are filled out properly.

I find It hard to believe a lo.would raise some ones handicap just because you complained about some one else lol

I'm quitting APA😞..Lost the local APA Championship last night

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

Clear the table!

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