Yes, it was chiefly for team selection, but also served as a Mosconi tune up match. Difficult to say anything about the lineup selection, but I assume Johan and Jeremy had their reasons for the choices they made.
last mosconi spot
- Thread starter kaznj
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Yes, it was chiefly for team selection, but also served as a Mosconi tune up match. Difficult to say anything about the lineup selection, but I assume Johan and Jeremy had their reasons for the choices they made.
I wonder if Willie Mosconi would have ever been picked for the team.
He wasn't known as a 9-ball player.
He wasn't known as a 9-ball player.
I must guess that you are young. Corey was one of the best few in the world early in his career. His credentials will land him in the BCA Hall of Fame one day.
I am not sure Max can win against Chris Robinson long-term, and from what I saw at Derby.. Chris looked to have been playing about even with Omar Al-Shaheen, as Omar tried to spot Chris a few games, and got absolutely murdered.
Chris's fundamentals are pretty close to Tyler's from what I saw. And didn't Chris win a big (non-major) 9 foot event in California last year?
I doubt in a long match against any of Corey Deuel, Chris Robinson, Justin Bergman or Josh Roberts, that Max would be favored but he, impressively, has played his way into contention for the fifth and final spot on this year's team, and right now, he looks the favorite to gain that spot.
Chris Robinson, by the way, won a Mezz West Tour Stop, which is no small feat.
To call a spade a spade... Corey is at his core, MUCH the better player than Max....
When he practices. But that's the thing. Corey seems to have a hard time finding the motivation to practice as much as he needs to. Corey is the type of dude, that if he gets a wild hair up his butt, and something causes him to want to "prove" himself.... He'll practice and immediately recover a few balls worth of playing skill.
From my time hanging out with him and the rest of the team last year in Leende, Corey now seems to overly cautious, not just in pool, but in life. The sort of person who will physically stop and look both ways before he crosses a dead empty street at 2am in the morning. Not look both ways as he is walking towards the street. I witnessed this personally, and the rest of the team ribbed him good naturedly about it.
The problem is... I see that in his game, as well. He never looks super sure on the tougher positions and shots, even when he ends up making them. I think he might have lost that burning desire that is usually present in younger players. I think in his younger days, there would have been no comparison between the two players, and we are simply at the point where we are picking the best of two fairly "modest" choices. (That was the best way I could politely say what I am thinking.)
I have a feeling that, even if Corey DOES practice, he's practicing his pet shots, and other various "awesome" shots. But... Is he practicing the cut break with the 9 on the spot? Is he practicing "fun" shots? Or is he practicing a thin safety from 8 1/2 feet away on a ball in the middle of the top rail? The sort of stuff he is gonna have to deal with over and over against the Euros? Who knows.
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Your confidence in Deuel, though admirable, does not stand up to scrutiny.
I think Bergman would be favored by quite a bit to win a long race over Corey on a nine foot table. Justin easily handled Kevin Cheng in a long, high stakes, race at Derby City this year, and Kevin's a much tougher assignment than Corey right now. How good a player is Kevin Cheng? Not the easiest comparison, as Cheng rarely competes in the US. Still, Cheng won a WPA title this year over a killer field in April at the WPA Players Championship, an event in which Deuel finished 17th. Kevin also finished 6th in the nine ball event at Derby City, an event in which Corey came 65th. At the World 10-ball Championship, Cheng came 9th and Deuel came 33rd.
In a race to 100 between Deuel and Bergman, you might be entitled to 8:5 odds if Deuel is your man. Also, don't overlook that over the last few years, Bergman has played well in the Mosconi Cup, while Deuel has struggled mightily.
For a fairly even match on a nine footer, Bergman and Deuel have to play one pocket.
Robinson was one of 4 (with Eberle, Bergman, and Parris) who played challenge matches in Las Vegas in July to determine which one of those 4 would join Thorpe, Deuel, and Styer as candidates for the 3 open team slots at that point (Van Boening and Woodward had already been chosen).
But I do not know what criteria Ruijsink/Jones used in choosing those 4 for consideration in July.
http://www.matchroompool.com/news/eberle-team-usa-contention-partypoker-mosconi-cup/
I just got back into pool about 10 years ago. I only started watching the pros play in the last 5 or so. All the pro pool I've watched, a couch potato could watch in a few evenings.
Next year I will officially be old.
I love watching the Mosconi Cup. Last year was the first year I saw most of it. I don't have cable or satellite TV, I watch mostly watch real people doing hobbies on you tube.
Yes, point well taken that everyone got creamed in singles, but Justin passed the eye test and was, perhaps, the only team member that tended to play up to his speed.
In my recap of the 2016 Mosconi, posted just upon its completion, in which I rated the play of every player, here's what I wrote about Bergman.
Justin Bergman
Bergman was solid most of the way, and was, by a mile, Team USA’s best player. To be fair, Justin does not break as well as some of the game’s top players and it threatens to hold him back from contention in the biggest events in pool. Still, Justin is the real deal, and he’s the only member of Team USA to whom one can possibly say “well played.” Justin’s all around game should inspire other members and aspiring members of Team USA. Justin’s formula has been simple ---- he has become proficient in all the games, a dangerous opponent in all of pool’s major disciplines. He has a really nice blend of power and finesse. Two young players with a trajectory similar to that of Justin because of their all around skills are Skyler Woodward and, even more so, Billy Thorpe
From my thread on career records of all Mosconi Cup players:
• Justin Bergman (3 yrs. -- 2014-2016) ..... 1-5 s, 4-3 d, 1-2 t, 6-10 total A (38%), 3.2-6.9 total B (32%)
When it comes to who is a better choice Corey Deuel or Max Eberle in the team this year...
Well I didn't watch any matches they played in the Kremlin Cup yet but I'm going to watch a hill-hill match Ruslan vs Max. At least I have an interest.
What I did watch closely are those both great matches vs young talent Fedor Gorst during Dream challenge. Both were great battles which ended up in the deciders. And if to be short the truth is very cruel in this sport...when you have your chance on a finish line you either take it or you fail and lose. I guess I know this sport good enough to say this crucial difference comes from what is in your head and your heart. Long story short Corey failed being on the finish line and Max closed the deal...
Do you know there was also something like training camp Johan held during this time USA team was in Moscow with all the USA team participants and the Russian team with those who participated in Dream challenge. There was one exception for my countryman Vitaliy Patsura who participated too. One of the reasons there were 6 americans and 5 russians = 11 and Johan needed an even number of participants because he divided them in pairs with 1 american and 1 russian in each pair. Vitaliy practised in pair with Max Eberle. Being young talented player one of the Billiard brothers and a good friend also helped. So as Vitaliy is also a friend of mine and practices in the same place I work...well we had some talk when he came back from Moscow and I have some insight info when it comes to their practise sessions and how certain players performed in certain aspects of the game. With my respect to all the players and to Johan I don't think it is right to discuss certain things. So I can say only about my opinion based on what I've already noticed watching certain players performance under pressure.
There are certain things helping me in understanding what difficulties the player may have. If you have enough experience in the game and remember your best times as a player...how it felt in matches on certain shots when you had a better stroke and how it feels now when you're just not as relaxed and confident when you face them under pressure. BTW I was born in 1977 too.
It will be interesting to watch how both Corey and Max perform at the International Open.
At least it does not seem this year like Marcus Chamat has much easier task with choosing 2 wild-cards than Johan has with his fifth spot (imo).
Well I didn't watch any matches they played in the Kremlin Cup yet but I'm going to watch a hill-hill match Ruslan vs Max. At least I have an interest.
What I did watch closely are those both great matches vs young talent Fedor Gorst during Dream challenge. Both were great battles which ended up in the deciders. And if to be short the truth is very cruel in this sport...when you have your chance on a finish line you either take it or you fail and lose. I guess I know this sport good enough to say this crucial difference comes from what is in your head and your heart. Long story short Corey failed being on the finish line and Max closed the deal...
Do you know there was also something like training camp Johan held during this time USA team was in Moscow with all the USA team participants and the Russian team with those who participated in Dream challenge. There was one exception for my countryman Vitaliy Patsura who participated too. One of the reasons there were 6 americans and 5 russians = 11 and Johan needed an even number of participants because he divided them in pairs with 1 american and 1 russian in each pair. Vitaliy practised in pair with Max Eberle. Being young talented player one of the Billiard brothers and a good friend also helped. So as Vitaliy is also a friend of mine and practices in the same place I work...well we had some talk when he came back from Moscow and I have some insight info when it comes to their practise sessions and how certain players performed in certain aspects of the game. With my respect to all the players and to Johan I don't think it is right to discuss certain things. So I can say only about my opinion based on what I've already noticed watching certain players performance under pressure.
There are certain things helping me in understanding what difficulties the player may have. If you have enough experience in the game and remember your best times as a player...how it felt in matches on certain shots when you had a better stroke and how it feels now when you're just not as relaxed and confident when you face them under pressure. BTW I was born in 1977 too
.It will be interesting to watch how both Corey and Max perform at the International Open.
At least it does not seem this year like Marcus Chamat has much easier task with choosing 2 wild-cards than Johan has with his fifth spot (imo).
When it comes to who is a better choice Corey Deuel or Max Eberle in the team this year...
Well I didn't watch any matches they played in the Kremlin Cup yet but I'm going to watch a hill-hill match Ruslan vs Max. At least I have an interest.
What I did watch closely are those both great matches vs young talent Fedor Gorst during Dream challenge. Both were great battles which ended up in the deciders. And if to be short the truth is very cruel in this sport...when you have your chance on a finish line you either take it or you fail and lose. I guess I know this sport good enough to say this crucial difference comes from what is in your head and your heart. Long story short Corey failed being on the finish line and Max closed the deal...
Do you know there was also something like training camp Johan held during this time USA team was in Moscow with all the USA team participants and the Russian team with those who participated in Dream challenge. There was one exception for my countryman Vitaliy Patsura who participated too. One of the reasons there were 6 americans and 5 russians = 11 and Johan needed an even number of participants because he divided them in pairs with 1 american and 1 russian in each pair. Vitaliy practised in pair with Max Eberle. Being young talented player one of the Billiard brothers and a good friend also helped. So as Vitaliy is also a friend of mine and practices in the same place I work...well we had some talk when he came back from Moscow and I have some insight info when it comes to their practise sessions and how certain players performed in certain aspects of the game. With my respect to all the players and to Johan I don't think it is right to discuss certain things. So I can say only about my opinion based on what I've already noticed watching certain players performance under pressure.
There are certain things helping me in understanding what difficulties the player may have. If you have enough experience in the game and remember your best times as a player...how it felt in matches on certain shots when you had a better stroke and how it feels now when you're just not as relaxed and confident when you face them under pressure. BTW I was born in 1977 too
It will be interesting to watch how both Corey and Max perform at the International Open.
At least it does not seem this year like Marcus Chamat has much easier task with choosing 2 wild-cards than Johan has with his fifth spot (imo).
Well said. America's best case scenario is that Deuel finds his very best game at the International, finishing high and beating at least one of the elite Europeans along the way. I doubt anyone questions that Corey's "A" game is higher than Eberle's "A" game, but what ultimately matters in assembling the best possible Team USA is who is in better form right now. For the moment, the answer is Eberle, but we all know this can change.
I don't know that we have a better analyst of pool players on here than SJM. And he can back up everything he says with clear recollections of matches each respective player has been in. We are fortunate to have people like him and AtLarge with his stats and Mike Page with Fargo Rate to keep us informed about the relative skills of our top players. They are a Godsend in a sport with no clear organizing body to keep records of all our major competitions.
As for little old me I have my own thoughts about the two players in question here. IMO Corey for whatever reason does not seem to perform at his best in the MC. In other tournament's I have seen him play brilliantly but not at the MC. Max on the other hand has been a career grinder, never reaching the illustrious heights that Corey has. Also for some unknown reason (maybe Johann and JJ?) Max appears to be playing the best pool of his life right now. Eccentricities aside I'd like to see him get his chance on the world stage. I think he's ready, and what a great story that would be if a 47 year old 'rookie' helped Team USA hold onto the title.
As for little old me I have my own thoughts about the two players in question here. IMO Corey for whatever reason does not seem to perform at his best in the MC. In other tournament's I have seen him play brilliantly but not at the MC. Max on the other hand has been a career grinder, never reaching the illustrious heights that Corey has. Also for some unknown reason (maybe Johann and JJ?) Max appears to be playing the best pool of his life right now. Eccentricities aside I'd like to see him get his chance on the world stage. I think he's ready, and what a great story that would be if a 47 year old 'rookie' helped Team USA hold onto the title.
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